Erwin  

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to another episode The truth about real estate investing show. My name is Erwin Szeto, and I trust everyone’s had a great weekend. As the work goes on in Ukraine, and checking in with my Ukrainian and Russian friends on social media, I can’t help but be grateful. I don’t have to explain to my kids what’s happening like I would if I lived in Kiev, or the capital of Ukraine. Quick FYI, I know most people, including myself, just a few weeks ago thought the pronunciation was Kiev, but actually Russians who say Kiev, locals to Ukraine from my understanding, pronounce it Kyiv. Here I am waiting for the day that my social media feeds will no longer be filled with trucker convoy news. Now, it’s all about the humanitarian crisis in Ukraine. This is so incredibly sad, this is not what I wanted. As always, I prefer not to dwell on anything, either do something about it or move on. So Cherry and I have made a donation to the Canadian Red Cross where our government is matching donations. I run my own charity, so I understand that many charities, we run our own charity because we wanted it to be an efficient charity. Just doing some quick research. This made sense since my dollar is being matched.

Erwin  

On the brighter news, this past weekend was the beginning of another stock hacker Academy beginners course called months FOMO programme starting with a weekend Crash Course. One real estate investor shared with me that he owns a foreign investment properties that he plans on holding forever, as a hedge in case the real estate prices go even more out of control. He actually happens to be a mortgage broker and he’s taking our stock hacker Academy course for his daughters, as he doesn’t know how the next generation will get into real estate investing without significant financial help. Him being in mortgage in the mortgage space. And also, it’s funny enough, with the a few mortgage people taking the course. And they shared the same thing. No, I actually asked the question: what are young people doing for financing? And the consistent answers seem to be everyone’s getting financial help from parents or grandparents or some sort of financial help from outside, it’s not all of them. So again, he’s learning how to Stock Hack because she needs a side hustle that will be accessible for his daughters. From my experience of working with hundreds of investors, over 90% of our clients are borrowing from their homes for down payments and renovation money. Of course, this is not financial advice. I’m just sharing my experience of working with a lot of successful real estate investors. So without the help of parents, I don’t know how any young person supposed to buy a home, let alone invest in investment property. If anyone has ideas, besides real estate in the stock market, I’m all ears, bankers, private equities, insurance, whatever else you got out there. I am keen on listening. Of course, cryptocurrency should have mentioned that the none of this is advice. 

Erwin  

We hosted 25 New stalk hackers in person, which is the most we’ve done a lot in the last two years, since we’ve been in a pandemic. So it was really nice to see people in person. And I think I’m not the only one who was so so tired of COVID. I am fully vaccinated and boosted. So my kids. So I’m not saying don’t take precautions, and just so so tired. 

Erwin  

Quick public service announcement. Also from the weekend, I’ve been speaking to at least one investor week, who is not having the best experience investing with organised large scale real estate investments or private mortgages. Again, I’m getting at least one personal story a week on deals going sideways. This current one sounds pretty bad as these investors, this specific investor was sharing how they lent money in the amount in excess of the market value of the property. I’ve never done that. And I never would. That’s my own threshold. Also, after the deal went sideways, that’s what always happens is some people don’t do much diligence going into the deal. And then they’re doing a lot of diligence when things go sideways. So from what they’re telling me is that the assessed value of the property so the what the tax man or woman thinks the value of the property is is actually above market value, which is highly uncommon. This market being in central Canada, it’s a different market than I’m used to, or I invest prices have gone up, maybe not this market doesn’t seem to be the same as mine. I’m partly an expert in central Canada investments. But anyways, the deals sound terrible.

Erwin  

I don’t think any investor would get into them, knowing that they are lending at values above above market value and above assessed values, as the assessed value doesn’t matter. Sort of matters. I think you get my point. It’s actually the investors opinion that the appraisers that we’re working with the investors directly may have been influenced because these are not, you know, for example, typically when I’m investing my clients invest or going through a bank, and then the bank sends their own appraiser. We can’t influence who that is right? So the bank has a bit more control on the quality of the appraisal comes back. So we have never seen these types of problems before. personally, again, just hope everyone out there is being careful doing their diligence. You know, if you know the property and you’ve seen the property and you’ve had it inspected in you are not cutting corners in the process, it’s really tough to pull the wool over your eyes. So do your diligence out there. I’ve shared it before, I personally don’t private land, because I believe there’s a lot of diligence that goes in. For my own purposes, I can be a bit controlling over my own investments, which is why I choose not to private invest private lend, because I’d much rather just own property straight out, if I’m going to do that much diligence. So just quickly, though, know your market well know your prices. Worst case, it’s not hard to have a trustworthy realtor to ask questions of, and then you can avoid a whole lot of scams. Again, I’ve repeated this many times, my preference is to still own real estate, I’m going to do my own stock hacking thing. If it’s passive, I’m only investing what I’m willing to lose. For example, private equities, or with my RSP. And everything for me is worked out, not everything. But generally things have worked out for me, and I’m no financial advisor, enough about me. On to this week’s show.

Erwin  

This week’s guest is Ben Oosterveld, a former real estate agent having sold his business; we talk about why he sold it, and how he sold it. At the peak of 2008 real estate market. Ben owns 61 properties across four cities, and 20 plus investment partners. And he was living the dream, at least he thought it was until the market came tumbling down thanks to falling oil prices and the credit crisis in the financial markets, which was a pretty significant recession in the world. Ben is here today to share how he coaches business owners, including realtors and investors to better understand themselves, break down wall so they may find happiness and have more energy to push towards their goals. Ben’s an old friend, we go back quite a ways quite a few years. He’s been on the show before so help yourself. I’ve included the link in the show notes and on this email alert. And also it’s on the website as well on our website truth about real estate investing.ca Make sure to sign up for my real estate newsletter and be notified via email when we have new episodes that come out. Ben also shares about his new book. He’s coming out with the richest real estate agent and I look forward to buying copies for my own team and I I was a guest that was kind enough to have me on as a guest of his podcast the richest real estate agents so check that out as well. And you can find Ben at www.benoosterveld.com/. Please enjoy the show! 

Erwin  

Ben Oosterveld, is that right? 

Ben  

Osterveld,  Oosterveld, Oshterveld, whatever. 

Erwin  

And that’s Dutch. 

Ben  

Dutch, yeah. 

Erwin  

Have you been to Holland? 

Ben  

No, no

Erwin  

No, it’s off the run one of my retreats there. 

Erwin  

That’d be cool. I’ve never been there. 

Erwin  

Yeah, for sure. I never been either. Lots of people know me there, though. I know the Oosterveld family there. So there’s some connections on hasn’t really been a first on the list. You know? 

Erwin  

And where you living now?

Erwin  

West Vancouver. 

Erwin  

Oh, how recent was that?

Ben  

I moved here in May. May. So today, May 2021. I moved there. So we it’s part of my whole life philosophy. Build a life you love, love, where you live, love where you work, love who you’re with love who you are, love what you do. And we I build everything according to that compass. And this is one of the dreams and we pulled it off living in one of the most beautiful neighbourhoods in Vancouver. Look at the ocean every day

Erwin  

Isn’t it one of the most expensive? Like #1 most expensive?

Ben  

I think so. There’s a house down the street at $8.9 million listed. It’s ridiculous. But man is it pretty? So but what do you do a limited edition. You look at the ocean every day. You know, it’s crazy. 

Erwin  

Yo, you can see the ocean?

Ben  

I’m looking at it right now. Well, it’s a little foggy.

Erwin  

Can you turn the camera around?

Ben  

It’s really foggy, let me just see here.

Erwin  

See then the view is not worth it then you overpaid. So that’s for the benefit of you guys watching on YouTube. We are on YouTube. I’ve ruined everything for Ben made everything. Go for him. That’s awesome.

Ben  

Know what I like? It’s that perfection? Perfection is definitely the goal, but it’s impossible. So whatever. Whatever happens on the shows, whatever happened, I literally don’t care if it’s perfect. So that was beautiful. My camera’s probably crooked now. 

Erwin  

No, you’re great and beautiful. You sound beautiful.

Ben  

Thank you. Thank you. Oh, yeah, man. Now it’s a huge change for us. We got five kids and COVID was a huge help for that, everything got shut down.

Erwin  

You’re saying COVID was a good thing for you?

Ben  

Yeah, yeah, it was because it actually few things happened that were good and COVID Yeah, might when your kids are we have five kids. Half of them are still a teenagers and you’ve got kids in horse riding horse jumping hockey, you got gymnastics, and then all of a sudden COVID shuts everything down for like a year and a half. They’re homeschooled. All of a sudden when we were saying we’re thinking about moving, all of a sudden the kids are pumped. And it used to be like we’re never moving here. We’re not leaving our friends. So Just a such a time as this, it just put together. We had a beautiful acreage market kind of popped, we just renovated it. And it was a miracle man, someone just came over one of my buddies, and he’s like, when you were thinking, selling, I’m like, we’re listing it tomorrow. He’s like, I’ll buy it, what’s your price, literally just happen. So sometimes you wonder about being in alignment. And life doesn’t have to be so hard. Maybe there’s a little bit of a flow in life, when you align to the true desires of what your your heart is. It’s like someone that plays piano without even practising like, I think there’s a piece of us that have our thing. Everyone has a thing and, and I think if we look at our desires, what we really want a lot of times where we don’t allow ourselves to dream don’t allow ourselves to have what we want. We always look at the best freaking ROI, or the best logical financial plan, test me it was not a good financial plan to come here. But can I tell you, I wake up every single day happy. And that’s that’s where we value that. So I think getting yourself to a place where it’s a little bit out of logic and more into following your heart. I think there’s a magic involved in that. It definitely need to we need wisdom, obviously, and logic and good financial sense. But there is absolutely something about doing something that just pulls you toward it.

Erwin  

Bet your West Vancouver has gone up in value. You know, you’re on the ocean.

Ben  

Well, I’m not on the ocean, but no, it’s I don’t care.

Erwin  

So you don’t look. Look, I look. I still care about what the price of my house is and what the neighbours are selling for.

Ben  

You know what I like looking at the ocean. I like going for walks. There’s Lighthouse park. There’s just absolutely beautiful man. Just beautiful. Cool.

Erwin 

Cool! Where were you before?

 

Ben  

Sherwood Park, Alberta.

 

Erwin  

So Edmonton really? Edmonton, Alberta? Canada. Yeah. And your kids wanting to move. They didn’t like having all that property?

Ben  

You know, we had a beautiful acreage. But yeah, no, it’s uh, you know what, it was scary. Everyone was worried we but we now we have amazing schools and everything turned out man, it turned out amazing. So now it’s, uh, yeah, it’s it. And to be honest with you, I don’t know if it’s energetically but man, we make friends here fast. Connect with people better. Like even in the hometown where we were for a long time. I didn’t feel fully connected. And I knew everybody. Here it’s so easy. It just it just a different energy can explain it maybe it’s me probably is. But my wife has a whole new friends group. All the kids have new friends groups, like it’s already better than where we live for for all those years.

Erwin  

Interesting. Sounds like the Western cultures are pretty similar.

Ben  

I don’t know if it’s I don’t know what it is. I think we bring an energy to our life. I think that’s what we bring to our life. I never wanted to be an editor every day I didn’t like it. So

Erwin  

Oh, you’re gonna piss off some people. I;m gonna get all these negative reviews now. There we go. Hey to be fair. I have Pierre-Paul Turgeon on just last week. So us all talking about Edmonton. So okay. 

Ben  

All good, dude. 

Erwin  

Was most of your realtor business in Edmonton?

Ben  

Yes. All there. Yeah, the team Oosterveld real estate was there.

Erwin  

So, you were selling crap. I’m kidding.

Ben  

We were selling cheap real estate. Let me tell you, I’ve been I didn’t sell for a few years. So my, my I built a team. We had everything all automated. And you had multiple assistants, you know, we had, we had a few team members. And it was good. We built out an amazing referral base. And that was most of the business. So yeah, no, and yeah, my brother in law actually bought the company, quarter MacEwan. It was awesome. He’s fully trained everything I’ve taught him, you know, and he’s obviously even taken it farther. And so yeah, he got my assistant, he got my team, I had a couple of really big agents leave beforehand. So it definitely changed the value at one point, but happy to have a setup where I’d my brother in law can take over the entire company and I get a bit of money for that, which is very exciting, nice little exit for, for selling my, my business really focused on on trying to build a business that sellable as a real estate agent. And that’s not that means that you got to have automated systems, you got to have things because no one’s going to value your business at all, if you’re the person making all the sales. So that was what was my focus is how do I get out of selling. And honestly, the real estate business was always on the side. For 10 years, I was just I was always coaching. The whole reason I became an agent was was to prove the systems. And it was fun. It was a it was a fun challenge, you know, build it came around to the year sold a whole hell of a lot of property, got all kinds of cool awards, and but it was more of the challenge of actually putting the system together and doing it differently. And yeah, super proud of what we did there. But ya know, it’s definitely was never the plan to be a real estate agent to be honest.

Erwin  

What year can you start? Cuz I remember you’re on the show and you had just started.

Ben  

Yeah, that’s right, man. 2012 I got my licence K. And so So I sat on it because I was coaching. And then finally I’m like, Okay, let’s let’s do this. So it was August 2012. The first six months I made $16,000, first six months, the next 12 months. That’s why you’ll hear me say the first calendar year. I made, 440 grand in Edmonton that would have been a million for sure in Toronto or Vancouver. But then the next so I hired an assistant literally within the first month of me getting a job because I was building a company, I wasn’t building a Sales Machine, I was building a company, and I knew being dyslexic, ADHD, and all kinds of like my like, literally I look like a child when I write anything. And even what if you watch me read something I literally can’t read. And lets him like ridiculously passionate about it. And then the Add hyperfocus kicks in and I can crush reading it’s a really weird problem. But with all these different ailments, I just hired an assistant to do the work for me, you know, three hours a day at 15 bucks an hour. And that was the hack. And so that’s what I ended up getting a buyer’s agent. My first year I made $97,000 My very first year in one month Sorry, I had my one of my biggest month like $97,000 my first year. And yeah, went and built a one of the top Western Canada real estate teams within three years and rock’n’roll. And in the whole time was coaching full time. So it was really cool. So yeah, no, I started in 2012, halfway through.

Erwin  

And your coaching was focused on who?

Ben  

Before I was an agent, I coached businesses, I coached individual entrepreneurs, I coached national companies, I was just all over the place because I was a real estate investor and going through the crash of 2008, which we definitely should talk about. And, and the thing is I reposition my life I it was actually really difficult time to go from being seven years straight real estate investor owning, you know, 61 properties, I had four different cities going 20 Some investors legit real legit business, and having a 2008 crash happened where we were you can, you know, I didn’t realise it was the probably the biggest crash we’ll ever see in our lifetime. And I was young in my 20s really late 20s and trying to navigate that we ended up okay, you know, but it was definitely definitely not easy. But I reposition myself to a sales and marketing coach. And I started coaching companies in sales and marketing and then it evolved to business and then involve to deep personal psychological growth, emotional intelligence over the years. So that’s, so that’s that’s what happened. That’s what I did. And I focused all in on real estate agents because I realised this business is ridiculously easy. People are just like doing the same old thing. Like you look at the competition, it’s almost like I looked at it, I’m like, everyone has like Toyota Camrys. And they’re all trying to beat each other. I’m like, we go into like, world class service, we go into long game systems, we go to automations, there’s all kinds of different things that that are brought to the table that just completely put us to the top that people weren’t doing. Like when someone would buy a property, they’d say, Thanks, we roll out the full red carpet, give them wine, customised gifts, according to the things that are nostalgic values. And three months later, we send a picture of them on the red carpet not a picture of us, we never branded ourselves once we branded the experience. And then what happened was within the first year, we were probably 20% referrals out of the gate. And we just focused everything we could do on client experience building up the referral base, and I realised nobody was focused on keeping their clients zero. Like I think about it your your shows about investors, it’s the same philosophy. If you’re an investor, and you if you have people’s money, like why are you not creating a long game, you know, a relationship programme that keeps them in the game for 20 years, you’re gonna get all your business from referrals if you keep a relationship, and it’s just like in real estate, they get so busy because it’s sales focused, I realised everyone was just sell, sell next deal. Next deal, every single coach right now is teaching how to find sales. But what happens when you do get sales? What happens you get freakin busy, and your service and all the different cool pop buys and phone calls, video messages and all these cool things that kept the relationships at scale, at full speed fall apart because they didn’t build an actual business. It’s just one of those things. So I realised Yeah, it’s it’s it focused everything on coaching real estate agents, because because it was a massive need. No one was a business owner, everyone was salesmen and saleswomen. And they still are. That’s why we call this real estate reboot programme is literally taking hard working salesman focused real estate agents and turning them into real business owners that actually can have a business they can go on a holiday or leave a computer at home and still make money like it’s business.

Erwin  

So sales and marketing doesn’t solve everything. Because that’s what’s being sold out there. Best script.

Ben  

Oh man, that’s like for sure.

Erwin  

The best CRMs I get all the ads too.

Ben  

Erwin, it’s like it’s almost like the magic diet pill. Best Selling thing you can buy, you know, why do you think millions of different ways to lose weight is out there but everyone’s fat. That’s because there’s something else other than than that they’re looking for the hack, and it’s almost like everyone else on all the other coaches sell ice cream. And I’m like, Yeah, I got ice cream too. But you’re going to eat your vegetables. And that’s what changes lives. That’s what for real results happen. It’s just a little bit different, a little harder to sell, understanding that like you’re in your own way. I remember Erwin standing on stage and at a keynote when I was speaking and I love to ask this question when I talk and it’s simply saying this a how many people in the auditorium right now? Loved to ask for help. You’d like to just look at this. I’m so deep into the psychology of what it takes to take action. Why don’t we do what we’re supposed to be doing? We know that The answer, but why are we not doing it? And so this is a really big question. It’s like so the psychology is that nobody likes to ask for help. Guess what? The most successful people on the planet? Find who To help, not how. But do you think Elon Musk is sitting there reading a book on freakin rocket engines? And how to fly a rocket? No, he finds the people that are the best. And they put the people together. That is how the billionaires are doing it. And you got a bunch of real estate agents turns out Oh, no, I don’t need help. I can do everything I can. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. And that’s why you haven’t frickin paid your taxes. That’s why you’re not doing follow up, you miss over $150,000 of lost revenue from simply not following up because you’re too busy doing everything. And so when I love to bring that example, because when we’re sitting on stage at a keynote, and everyone’s like, Oh, and then I say, Okay, let me ask you a question. If you had someone to remind you every single day, and it would take a one phone call. So let’s pay this person $15 A day, call you and say hey, did you call that person? That’s it, literally. And I’ll keep care of your client list. So this one person at a one hour a day, let’s just say it’s what $3,500 A year, I always ask how many deals Did you miss last year from a lack of follow up? Right. And so let’s say 10 deals. Ewrwin, what’s the average in your area for one sale? Average commission?

Erwin  

It’s getting pretty big 16,000? Somewhere in there.

Ben  

Let’s say it’s 10,000. Here’s the thing, or what if you do that this was that 10 sales is 100 grand. So I could spend one magic me saying Why don’t you get someone for $3,500 a year to remind you to call them that would make you $100,000. Like people are not thinking this is so easy. They’re complicating it. They’re just it’s just not but you have to ask for help. You have to build a team, you have to get people to help you. That’s a big deal. Really big deal. That’s why I coach real estate agents. It’s a huge hole, like solving that problem

Erwin  

Real estate agent, I know it look shiny on the outside because so many people are getting into it. Are you seeing that too? Lot of people getting into it. 

Ben  

Totally. Like it’s a lottery mentality now.

Erwin  

I think like the grass looks greener on the other side people it’s easily low barriers of entry.

Ben  

While also people aren’t happy on the inside, Erwin. Yeah, because you’re looking at big well think about this big commission checks. You kidding me? You just told me 16,000 For one house. Oh man, all I need to do is sell five houses and I’m set no clue. No clue. They don’t understand what it takes 90 days to get momentum at the fastest maybe six months and then when it there’s no such thing as a sale a month it comes in like nine sales and then no sales like it’s a it’s a really tricky business that way. So to be honest, the Erwin this reminds me of 2008 Like if you think about it like this is we talked about it earlier. And I had 61 properties 20 Some investors millions of dollars of real estate, I had four different cities staff, the whole bit property management company, to manage all of them myself, and 2008 hit. I had never seen nothing like it. I didn’t have any perspective of bad okay, this is what’s happening Erwin, when people getting into the market in the last few years, they don’t understand the negative that can happen. I am the last person to say don’t risk I love taking risks. But I’m also understand what it’s like to go through a crash when your investors calls you and says I’ve lost all my money on the stock market. Can you remember how we were gonna sell that property? Can we sell it? And I say no, we’re stuck. And I’m a young man that’s never never gone through something like this. It was a horrifying being a people pleaser at the time.

Ben  

What year is this? 2008?

Ben  

2008 to 2009 like it was a cliff man. It was like off in what happens.

Erwin  

This was in Edmonton?

Ben  

Yeah, Alberta. i had four different cities red deer, hinton, alberta i mean um edmonton and calgary. so we were heavy in alberta.

Ben  

Then we had the oil crash 

Ben  

Let’s financial crash right 

Erwin  

Yeah double whammy 

Ben  

I got a mortgage without even know what my credit was back in the day way way back and i got it 107 mortgage i didn’t even i just said i want a property and like how about 107 like thanks so i bought all the furniture i needed furnished it called every single oil company in hinton and said do you want a hotel alternative do you want a hotel alternative what are you paying for hotels like 20 grand a month i’m like how about 7 000 for mine i bought the property for 100 grand it was like i was making five six thousand dollars like literally every single month clear on these i had 10 of them in that town at that time it was wild but remember like that’s a scary that’s a lottery dude so what happens is i just bought whack of them right i didn’t i went through the lessons learned are huge because all of a sudden the market stopped and that’s what it means when warren buffett says you’ll only see who’s swimming naked when the tide goes out but there’s never been a boom that’s lasted what 10 years never like i don’t know what the history is but i bet you maybe there is somewhere but this it has to change and what is crazy now that i’m old and wise because of that i went through it and i paid the price is that right now is the best time in the world right now to take the extra money and do things that play the 20-year game so let’s just take real estate agents right now man it’s so easy put a sign in the lawn it’s sold it’s a bidding war it just depends on how to navigate that and it’s like okay something is way too easy erwin there’s more people right now coming to me like i coach agents all over north america and it’s every single agent like most of them are having their banner years and they think that they’re better than what changed from last year to this year did you get better as an agent nope you’re the same person the difference is free sales are coming your way you don’t have to market that much because everyone every coffee shop like this morning i’m sitting in starbucks and there goes another guy walking by talking about property value it is the hottest topic in the world and this is what it was within when i was investing in 2004 five six and seven it was wild you were in the game we were probably doing the similar things here when just thinking let’s make our money this is amazing and so this is what’s happening again i’m not predicting a crash i’m predicting a mentality that they’re going to be blind to the future so what they’re doing is they’re playing the present game and they’re people at night the people are taking 90 degree turns on their life plan to get in the game they’re literally abandoning their life plans so they can make sure they don’t miss the the real estate boom and i’m like man i’m watching it happen again you know how easy it was to raise money in this market it’s you know much it’s so easy every it was so easy to raise money because you’re like you want to get into the game i got an investment you know people people lining up on condo builds that are going to be two years out and they’re just lining up and off of what a napkin drawing here here’s the building oh i want in like we’re losing our wisdom and i would not know this unless i went through a horrible year or two in the crash and understand what it’s like to look at someone and say i know you invested your money but i can’t get it out it is the most and i didn’t you know i have two properties irwin that are dogs still from those times yep do you know your idea still got them they’re like break evens they do nothing i’ve got other ones that i’ve done really well on obviously i’ve got about nine properties still now i’ve got it down to a handable easy portfolio but the thing is uh those properties are like it’s one of those ones they’re like you know like you to get out of them you need to sell but they still like they’re almost break even so you’re kind of like sitting on this property and uh the point is not the details of that investment the fact is i’m still in a couple of those that aren’t exciting to me like attempted just to just take a loss and get rid of the stupid things.

Erwin  

So they’re underwater, you’re saying they’re underwater still? Yeah. Okay. So there were today they’re worth less than what you paid for them.

Ben  

They are two of them. That was the absolute peak we were buying. And that particular property 

Erwin  

14 years.

Ben  

I don’t like Erwin, this is why I’m saying I never thought that could happen. So I’ve got other properties that are diamonds, right? Like I’ve done really well in real estate. But the thing is, I know both sides. I feel so freakin lucky because now I feel like a wise man looking at what’s happening. I’m not scared, dude, I think it’s amazing time to begin in real estate, but not not in with blindness. Like real estate agents are the side effect like that’s where I live helping agents. And they’re they have a chance right now they’re making 50 to $250,000 more in their budget. How much do you think is going to building infrastructure, hiring staff building out their long games, client gifts, like actual things that are going to actually drive business for next 20 years? They’re just looking at making money right now they’re getting new cars, holidays, are they even knowing how to put their tax money away? If they are that’s great, but reinvest into the company right now. reinvest into staff waste money trying to build out your infrastructure wasted, I don’t care take a don’t don’t start buying more marketing. Right now. You don’t need to spend much money on marketing, go long game, long game connection with your clients, making sure that that’s good. hire somebody to just manage a prospect list, hire feedback manager, raise your experience. So when the market crashes, you’re still the very best option in the market. It’s absolutely simple. But right now, because of the boom, people are starting to get a little bit complacent. They’re losing their customer service because they don’t need it when you’re making a half a million dollars without even freakin trying. See this his times will change and the people that set up their systems and set up a real business and challenge their mindset that way. They’re going to be the ones that last the 20 year plate. They’re not just going to be like remember the good old days we used to make all this money. That’s what’s coming. That’s the feast and famine cycle. We are in the feast right now.

Erwin  

I heard happened to some realtors and realtor teams just even during the pandemic was they were like in a wait and see mode. Yeah, like versus like cheering our let’s go we’re hosting like we three webinars on like what to do in this situation.

Ben  

But you know, watch this, okay, watch this. You have infrastructure. So watch the power you had, like me too. I was I had friend zoom that was with me in your new zoom 10 years before anybody else. We were ready. We had infrastructure. We had an assistant to put out the email. We had the team to go do the sales while you’re running your team to have the time to set the vision to talk to your wife. Bam, you got instantly because you have a list Erwin, that you’ve been nurturing. So guess what, you had those things ready. So COVID hits, you turn it on instantly and grow. And this is the message this is exactly what I’m talking about. Erwin, you and I won in COVID. In some level, it could have been a lot worse, at some level, right?

Erwin  

Where’s all the people who are all these people who are miserable?

Ben  

I think people like I know a buddy of mine. He owns the largest boxing gym in all of Western Canada. Hmm. He had built all of his online training programme that he was going live and it was sitting on the shelf. Guess what? He invested in effin infrastructure. He had it ready. He turned it on overnight. He didn’t miss a beat. It’s been hard as hell for him. And he’s any but guess what? He ran the whole time. Other gyms are like Sorry. Like if it’s because he invested when the time’s right. In infrastructure. He had mentioned if you had to film your imagine that people going I guess I gotta do online training. What zoom? What camera do I get? Like if we can as real estate agents have a list if you don’t have your list, manage pay someone to handle that less like there’s infrastructure things that are basic, and people aren’t taking care of. But guess what they do? They take 10,000 more dollars, and they crank it the lead gen. They take another bunch of money you get into magazines you do door knock every single decision is based on sales, when they should be making some of their revenue and allocating it to infrastructure, but there’s no real teaching out there. Erwin, it’s frustrating. They hire an assistant to be the number one thing every agent should be doing. If they have extra money, take 15 grand take one freakin deal and invest it into an assistant just to help you. It’ll shift your mentality

Erwin  

How many people have you yelled at for not getting an assistant?

Ben  

Yelled at?

Erwin  

Yeah. When I started I had an assistant within six weeks because I hated the paperwork that much

Ben  

Everyone that’s won the game in that there’s still people who don’t Carson Briar. He went through my six months real estate reboot camp. He’s a I don’t know, it’s gotta be close a couple million dollars. The guys is one of the top agents in Edmonton. And yeah, same thing. He hired an assistant within six weeks, eight weeks like it just understanding business pays more than understanding sales.

Erwin  

Oh, we are gonna piss off some people

Ben  

Bring it on. I’m the top sales guy everywhere I’ve ever gone to so I got the right. And I only got me it got me freakin busy. I got big paychecks. But it led to Chaos. It led to hurting my relationship with my wife, it rent to a place where my kids wondered where I was. When I was in freakin Florida. I was sitting there dealing with brokerage issues because I didn’t have there’s times where the times where I outsold everyone it covered my sins. It just look really really bad money manager is no problem. As long as you keep on selling a shit tonne of stuff, you don’t need to worry about money management. But the moment the sales drop, you find out where you’re at,

Erwin  

Cause we got lucky because the government bailed us out this last time. But like 2008 no bailouts, was there?

Ben  

Dude, it was scary, man. It was scary. I calculated the money we had we thought okay, we have to we have a literally a timeline, because the money dried up. And we had no sales like meaning I made money with my investments. And I had structured deals where I made money while I was investing, like and so we had to kind of keep investing as we built our portfolio. We had different things. But everything stopped. Nobody was investing. Like it wasn’t like, Dude, it was literally like June of 2008. I remember exactly. It was literally felt like the next day. And every single person was interested in investing in real estate. It was literally I’ve never seen nothing like it because it was like the market it was the stock market started plummeting at so fast. Every single person panicked. And I remember, dude, my dad, my dad was a financial planner, when, during that time, my dad and I had parallel lives. But you know what, he’s a people pleaser. He was always a performance guide. And guess what happened? He ended up having a really hard time he put money into into an investment that fell apart. And it was it was insured. It was safe. It was everything. He went through a really difficult time people were coming going I have no money now. And it was like their investments are gone by 50%. Like how do you look at people? And I realised now looking back, is that I was in real estate and yes, we did get some underwater stuff. And yes, we did. But we never lost anything. That’s why real estate is really cool, because you still have bricks and mortar. So that cash flow, you still can pay it down. stock market is a little bit different. So I like the diversification. I like having a little bit of relative real estate because even when a crash happened, I still got real estate. I still got real estate. A lot of people lost everything. In the market if they were in the wrong place, but I remember people killing themselves during that time, financial planners were killing themselves. Like, I didn’t realise how intense that was being in the position it was early or late 20s trying to navigate being an advisor with money for all these people like it and so I don’t think I’m jaded from and now because it’s like it’s it literally was a process to get through that mentally have gone through a lot. But reality is reality as I smell it again, starting to smell that that hyper hyper blind jump in the game focus right now. And it’s it I don’t scare that we’ve wait different economics. I don’t think it’s gonna crash. I really don’t. But I think we got to be having our head up. Let’s not make stupid moves. Right now we got a great opportunity to get ahead right now.

Erwin  

Yeah, it’s just this past weekend, similar properties of this type of properties I buy had 23 offers on it. So I mean, I remember I remember I’m closer to now than I ever was. So I’ll keep tabs on how many offers are on stuff. And then maybe I’ll decide to sell something when the when I think something might turn.

Ben  

You know what man, I know a guy right now a friend of mine, who’s he invested for as long as I have and I just met and had a coffee with them. And he’s a real estate agent just became one. And he made a half million dollars last year on the island first year, like, really, but he’s a good dude. Okay, he’s a salesman, but also a really good, wholesome human being he liquidated. And he’s repositioned he probably because he did go through the harder times. So now you see a boom, you’re like, I want to take the money. And so he made that choice. I think logically, it’s going to be a loser on ROI. But it’s but the thing is, that was his choice, and he now can reposition his money into whatever he wants. And he’s in the best places ever been in this entire life. Vancouver Island, you’re saying when you mean? Everything you sold was in was in actually, Ontario? I think it was kind of in in your area, to be honest. You had about three or four houses gone. He’s got a whole block of cash. And now he’s going to do whatever he does, but mentally that was really good for him.

Erwin  

Oh, sorry. Does he live in Vancouver Island, and he sold it? Yeah, I’m not a fan of investing far away from me personally.

Ben  

Yeah, we don’t actually calculate something or when is called mental cost. And relationship costs. Like I just I just I paid the price. My friend Wales got divorced. I’d had a lot of troubles in, in marriage by chasing the dollar. And I learned some major lessons, man, and definitely can say I don’t do that anymore. Clear as they realise I’ve already won the game got amazing wife, kids live in an amazing place. I get to coach people, I get to run retreats, I get to do adventures. Like there’s just so crazy. I get to talk to you today. And middle the day, I don’t have a I don’t have a job. Like there’s just something about building that life. So I realised very long time ago, I had already won the game and I was still chasing. And it’s a lesson that’s so massive. I would love the fact that we got this on the podcast, because it’s like, it’s like, what are you like, I used to play the game as if it was overtime, or when. And so this is the energy I used to bring to the table. I couldn’t sit still I couldn’t I had to bend dude in overtime, if you’re playing hockey, or any game. That’s the time where if you have a broken link, you keep working. If you if you have anything that happens, you keep grinding because one slip up, you lose. And that mentality almost cost me my marriage. It almost cost me so much it cost me a lot of chaos because I tried to leverage too much because I wanted to keep going. And that was the day I realised when when my wife was really sit down and talk to me about leaving in why I don’t want her to leave me I realised that was more important than almost anything in the world. And that’s when I started changing my life and I realised I had already won. Why am I playing the game in overtime? I’ve got money, got opportunity. I’m on a really great trend, that kid’s life. It just was one of those days like I won. And so I live life from when I’ve won the game is a different life in a different perspective now, so I don’t ever get I don’t chase anymore. But can I tell you something? I’m as ambitious as the day who ever was. I am so ambitious. But it can’t be let go in nine seconds when it gets in the way of what I want. So my ambition didn’t change my priorities did.

Erwin  

So what did you do tactically? So actually just give me some give the listeners some context. Yeah, sure. I don’t have stats on it. But divorce rate among Realtors is pretty high. It’s gotta be you’re closer to it than I am. You’ve talked to more from different brokerages. 

Ben  

I’m coaching very closely with many people I’ve even got a client right now that’s actually asked me specifically just to work with him, him and his wife on a relationship level

Erwin  

Is the wife a realtor?

Ben  

They’re actually a real estate agents to be honest there. Okay, you’re just this odd, odd random person that came to my retreat that one coaching and, but very close to the real estate game. Okay, so very close. But they’re not actual real estate. But the thing is the biggest conversation, I have my one to one with all of real estate agents that are in my high ticket, like my mastermind group that I only take about 15 people a year, but these every single one of them is 65% talking about relationship, probably 75% of our conversations is relationships. Why? Because that’s what that’s the part that that’s the most important to them. I think the divorce rate is tough now, because marriage is secondary. It’s not almost it’s not even. It’s not marriage is not necessarily the heavy measure someone not married, but they lived together for like it’s common loss. It’s almost as normal. I mean, same thing. Yeah. So I don’t know the stats either. But I know that it’s rapid, rapid everywhere. I just know that 100% of people I talked to that real estate is putting strain on their marriage and on their family.

Erwin  

So tactically, what can someone do?

Ben  

You know what I really like? Okay, so this is personal, right? So this I run a programme that’s 50% personal growth, and it takes six months through there. And I take them through a process with training them in real estate, the first thing I do is ask them, what makes them happy. And it’s a really weird I do a two hour session, what makes them happy? Okay. And I asked them, so let me let me just give you I’ll give you the actual exercise. So at least there’s something that your listeners can take, what I would do is, I would say this, give me your financial goals. So one of the first questions I asked them is a good old coaching question, what’s your financial goals? So I set them up, I set them up, though. So anyone joining my programme, you’ll know I’m going to set you up. So here’s what it is. So I say what are your financial goals? And you can imagine, right, like, what do they say? Like their, what their financial goals are? Like, in real estate terms? It’s always the same thing. Okay? I need a watch 250 grand or a million or 50 deals, or 80? Deals? Okay. So they they put a monetary value, either it’s on volume, number of deals, or gross income. And then I asked the next question. Okay, so I set them up. So I’m asking people to do this. Write down your financial goals. The next question is describe, you know, hour by hour, your your day when you hit those goals. So not like, what are you doing in your life? I’m talking specifically, what are you doing in your day? You know, what happens, Erwin? I could literally open it up right now I won’t, and show you 100 Times have probably done this, I’ve got all that homework in a file. I’ve got a lot of data. And so what it is, is this, you’ll have this, you’ll have the first question, and everyone talks about money. And they say, what’s your goals? And the next question is this? Well, what I want is to wake up in the morning, and sit on my balcony and have a tea, or have a coffee, maybe go to the gym, and maybe do a deal here and there. But I just, I’m like, hold on a second. And then I stop and go, can’t you do that today. So you think you need to make a million dollars to go to your mother effing patio and have a tea. What I realised or win over years of coaching is that it’s an emotional thing they’re looking for, and they’re trying to solve it with the money goal. You know what they’re trying to solve, Erwin? Worry, that’s what they’re trying to solve? Worry, I don’t want to worry about money. So if I get lots of money, I won’t have to worry, nope. The more money you have, the more worry you have. And it’s the exact wrong solution. So the psychology needs to be looked at. And then the next step is this or when people need to look at their fuel. Okay, so I’ll give a little bit of practical things to start the journey of getting the obviously this is we could do a 10 part series on this. But here’s another one. So first of all, that’s the question you’re out of alignment, you’re trying to solve an emotional need. You’re trying to stop worry by getting more money, but that’s not going to work, I promise you and you can keep trying until you you know, feel like the pain is enough. And then you can come talk to me. But the reality is that does not work you need to solve the most Why are you worrying? Like this is the better question. It’s like, I want to wake up and not worry, sit on my balcony have a tea, it’s not about the tea, it’s just that I don’t have stress, I don’t have worry. And the very thing they’re doing is creating more stress and more worry by solving it the traditional financial planning style way like your goal setting bigger goals, more sales. That’s all we’re getting taught in real estate, and it’s creating more stress, creating more worry, the very thing they’re trying to get out. And now the definition of insanity fits. Do the same thing over and over again, you get the same results, just hopeless. That’s where you know, marriages break and stuff. So here’s another tactic that I think that’s shifting people massively. I think we’re not looking at our fuel. We’re not valuing our fuel. Okay, so let’s talk about this. When you wake up in the morning, how’s your energy? See, we spend so many, so much time thinking about tactics, okay, and systems and how to be number one, or whatever it is. We don’t ever spend enough time on going, how are we going to fuel ourselves to get the goal. So the bigger the ambition, the better energy you need, but that’s not a conversation. That’s some very, very fufu stuff. But let me just explain it in a real practical way. Let’s say you’re a racecar driver, right? And the thing is, you’re What do you need, you can have the best machine, you can have the best driver, best tires, best brakes, best engine, you could literally have the best record in the world. But if you don’t put fuel in the car, you literally lose. It’s the number one thing that can take out anybody is low energy. Understand if did you get COVID? Oh, Irwin, and get COVID Conway. Oh, yeah, that was so many people, right? So they get COVID Right? No, it’s the number one thing they lose energy. I got a guy right now. It’s got long COVID. That’s one of my coaching clients. 43 days. He’s into it now. And he can’t get his energy. He’s one of the best sales guys and best closers best team leads and I’ve ever met, and he’s sitting there at half energy and none of his skill matters anymore. Why are we not focusing on energy first? Now let’s go flip it out and say what if a guy’s got more energy but less skill who wins? Most likely that guy with more energy because he’ll pick up the skill. Connor McDavid is the best hockey player upon the planet, to serve us the most is wild, anyone should look them up and watch the highlights is absolutely insane what he can do on the ice, he’s better than 10 times better than most most everyone on the ice. But here’s the thing. What if he shows up hungover. But literally, it doesn’t matter how good he is, he’s gonna lose 50% of his skill. Because of energy. I’m making a very long point. Because I’ve worked with people like I’ll give you an example. There’s a guy that owns a royal a page that I that I coach and his whole team, we started working together and exactly in the real estate reboot, we have a thing called setting your compass. And one of the things is what are you neglecting out of your life that that does not drive business. But that would fuel your soul. He said, I’ve always wanted to sing. And like, I’ve always wanted to sing. What a dumb thing in a business coaching element to be like, well, let’s talk about like, literally how many calls you making? Let’s talk about your team development. What kind of training do you do a morning meeting? Like we could be?

Erwin  

What are you doing to maximise GCI? That’s right. Right? Correct commissions. I mean.

Ben  

whatever, yeah. And it’s like, but that’s not why he came to me, came to me because he wanted a deeper conversation. And so he said, and I said, What can you commit to for the next 12 weeks that is going to feed your soul that does not feed your business? And so we booked a singing lesson. This was one of the greatest breakthroughs in his life. He booked a singing lesson start singing, and he had the connection. He goes, what else in my life? Am I holding myself back from her with fear? It was this unbelievable connection that happened? Oh, I’m scared of singing because I look stupid. But once he’s overcame that, everything else in his entire life that held him back because of fear was now on the table to be removed.

Erwin  

Sorry, about he was afraid of singing?

Ben  

 Yeah, he’s like 59 years old. And he’s just a, you know, a very professional man. And he’s gonna go and singing and he’s like, so he he got a singing lesson. And next thing, you know, he steps up and he realised why did I not? Why didn’t I not be who I was designed to be earlier? Because I was scared. Then he got the new brain data that says you can overcome your fears. So now what happened was he stepped in? Oh, my goodness, man. It’s crazy to see he’s had the biggest year he’s ever had. His team has had the biggest year, he’s now implemented a new assistant got rid of someone that didn’t match, he started making way better moves. And guess what the thing was connection was the result. Because when you’re withholding from who you really are, you’re hiding, you cannot be in a relationship and hide. So now he is connected to his team. The conversations are 10 times deeper about with his team, his culture is better. Now he comes on all my retreats with me and he’s still working with me. And it’s amazing to see this guy. He’s now done karaoke for the first time he levelled up, he went to karaoke. And he walked into the bar. And he’s like, Okay, I’m gonna do this. He thought no one would be there, I’m gonna step up my game have never sang in front of anyone. And he goes to the bar, and it’s loaded with like, rough and tough guys. And there’s the karaoke mic. And he’s like, Screw it. I’m doing it. Now. That’s what I call emotional strength. He didn’t have that he needed to take those steps. But guess what’s happening? So he sang and to be everyone was cheering them on and just this huge breakthrough. But why are we talking about a man singing a real estate agent singing? Do you know what it is? Fuel, he wakes up in the morning happy. He’s now collecting records. Now. He’s now doing what else he’s doing. Because he started challenging everything about his life going, where am I not aligned? Nobody want nobody does. Three months of the year, he lives in a cabin with his wife running his real estate team three months of the year. He’s not even in the game. Now that was designed custom designed life. But it started with asking what are you withholding that you love? It seems so simple now that I’ve been doing it hundreds of times with people. And it’s cool to be able to really appreciate you letting me even share this because I think this is the message. And it’s practical. Like what do you feel like? What do you feel like after you go fishing? After you go wakeboarding? What do you feel like after you go sailing or whatever it is? Don’t you think you show up with your team better? Your family better? You’re better sales guy your energy’s high. Why are we not putting that on a pedestal rather than a GCI? gross sales. That’s not even profit. That’s what we’re Why don’t we celebrate? How many vacations did you take in relation to your profit? I can take more vacations I can get more profit and how that be? It’s a different question. We can change the metrics on our success. redefine success is really important. 

Erwin  

It’s pretty cool. Because I remember I’ve always been shy person. And then there was actually a real estate networking meeting. Because I read I read. I think Brian Tracy wrote about it that those who public speak will be more successful in business. So I forced myself.

Ben  

You know why you overcome the fear? It’s just the fear. It’s a fear Crusher.

Erwin  

I had to overcome that fear first? It’s weird. I had to. I basically had a blackout moment to ask the coordinator for speakers if I could give a talk on the City of Hamilton investing in Hamilton. And as I was so nervous. Oh, so again, I had to block myself out to be able to ask to speak in front of 300 people.

Ben  

Right? It’s intimidating man. First time. Yeah. 300 a big room. It actually looks really big. Yeah.

Erwin  

Right. And then she said, Yeah, of course, no problem. Just send me an email some ideas, and we’ll we’ll pick a date and like, wow, that was easy. That was easy first, and then you actually have to get on the stage.

Ben  

To make sure you go to the bathroom first, because you might just be your pants are so scared. My business has boomed after that. 

Erwin  

Interesting!

Ben  

Yeah. Because I think the energy you bring changes and people saw you again, they actually saw you.

Erwin  

But conquering that fear, not what enabled me to go after other ones? Because then the next one I attacked was my fear of heights. Right? 

Ben  

You jump out of a plane? 

Erwin  

I jumped out of a plane? Yeah, I’ve done bungee jumping than the CN Tower at work when you’re in Totonto, let’s do it. 

Ben  

That sounds terrible. 

Erwin  

Yeah, bring it bring your masterminded. Do you guys want to close?

Ben  

We actually retreat in October in Oh, yeah, we’re supposed to cinch information throughout without it next week. We Yeah. We we’ve got this amazing place that’s off grid. But at the lodge has a Wi Fi connection, but no phones. No Wi Fi. You know what, you know why? Because we are in business. I think there’s some level of like connectivity that that can be there. And plus, mentally I don’t think people can take all of it. I take baby steps. We don’t need to go to black belt and go to blue belt. That’s fine. Sometimes we greater accomplishes against top a type big times winners. And I don’t think we need to do that. I think we need to greater success on the 1% steps that we need to take. And so one Wi Fi connection is a pretty big deal for when you can’t use your phone in the cabin. You got it like you know, it’s a good step for most but anyways, yeah, no, we’re gonna go deep dive into who you are what you want, get clarity and get connection. 

Erwin  

When is it?

Ben  

Go to www.benoosterveld.com/ ans hit the retreats. It’s a mindset retreat. 

Erwin  

It’s a name like honestly, yeah, it’s like Smith.

Ben  

www.benoosterveld.com/, the retreats there. And it’s 3500 bucks a person. And it is probably one of the biggest game changers I’ve ever seen in my life. When it comes to business and relationships in the combination. 

Erwin  

How many days? 

Ben  

It’s three days

Erwin  

Who’s it for? Who should go?

Ben  

You know what, this is an open one. I’ve been running these retreats privately in my mastermind, this is the only time I’ve opened it up to like, it’s the second time I’ve only opened it up to anybody. So personally, Erwin, I’ve seen fathers and sons, husbands wives, real estate agents, the wife coming on their own, have other agents that have actually worked with me for years, they sent their wife and they were into that. So that, to be honest, Erwin it’s it’s humans, right. And I think I think real estate is always a big topic in my world. But it’s nothing we don’t actually talk about real estate, unless it’s in relation to how are you in your own way? And and where are you going through so i i get everyone out of their heads. By leaving your environment or when things are psychology completely changes. It’s I think even chemicals in your brain changes dopamine, like there’s all these different things that happen stress, guilt, shame, all of these emotions show up when you have to leave your family, you have to leave your team. It also is a really good place to test if you’re a business owner to find out where your business falls apart when you leave for three days. So much benefit from just going just if I just go and we just hung out, it would still be a massive thing. But at the retreats, what we do is is a we examine you, and if the safest environment in the entire world you’ve ever believed and I facilitate the whole thing I we figure out what you want where in your own way. And there’s times we’re most of us are telling our story to ourself that isn’t 100% accurate. Because we don’t want to face the bad feelings so we avoid them. And so we look at them. And we have massive breakthroughs. That’s when that’s what happens. And that’s where I can tell you story after story after story about life’s have been. It’s like the catalyst for these massive changes in their lives. And increase is a very big theme. If you go to the website and watch the video, you’ll you’ll see the actual location. You’ll see some of the guys that went on this last retreat in northern Ontario. It’s north of it’s an hour and 45 North East of Sudbury.

Erwin  

Oh, that’s far. Yeah. And it’s in like 3500 includes meals and accommodation, everything just go make your way there. That’s it.

Ben  

Just get there. You know, I don’t think it’ll always be that price. So we’ll see if someone’s listening to this and it’s been a while double check. But it’s uh, honestly, it’s it’s the it’s just I just know what it is. And we’re branching out to opening it up. It’s just too many. Like I just feel like it’s a we have this beautiful thing that we’ve been doing for years and years and I just think so many people would love to just jump on a retreat that aren’t wanting real estate coaching or they want to develop a like bring it bring their team and that’s the area that I can kava because I don’t need to coach everyone so but like for example, if you brought your team or when you go coach them after but the conversation on your team will change That’s the difference, you’ll have a deeper connection you want. Like it just they just love the culture of your team is just an absolute game changer. It just changes everything because you actually get real we break down the barriers and you can act like put it this way growing. How many people get you? Like I’m talking buck naked? Know who you are not ever naked. But you know what I mean, metaphorically speaking, every single thing is on the table with or when they get you how many people?

Erwin  

I don’t know. Very small number. I can be pretty closed off.

Ben  

So two?

Erwin  

Sure, sounds fair. 

Ben  

What if there was a place where I could get to where I really got you were, what would happen to me in your relationship but truly got to that place where I got you know?

Erwin  

We get to kill each other.

Ben  

He’s like, he’s like stay away. If your team if you could give that to your team. Yeah. And like you get them like you like that’s you? We talked, oh, retention, well, let’s offer all these things for retention. And let’s let’s invest in our team. I’m like, what if you just got them that’s the most limited edition place you can ever be with a human being as they get me. I’ve probably got three people, my crew, my business from within mastermind, I think they get me but there’s also my wife against me. And so there’s a very few amount of people I’ve been actively building my tribe in that way and being wildly open so I could find those relationships. So it’s a really big deal. So that’s where that’s where a lot of it’s a really great place to jump in. If it’s not about just coaching on real estate and stuff. It’s a really cool place I envision team showing up there and and doing something together that would be just completely game changing.

Erwin  

Sounds awesome. Venues filled. Yeah, so you sold your company because I’m so unsure some people are interested in that. But you took an exit.Why? Why did this isn’t to sell, 

Ben  

I never wanted to be an agent. Never did. I’ve been trying to exit first since my second year of real estate to be honest or what I am deeply obsessed with human behaviour and helping people I’ve lived a life on the streets. I’ve been in rehab for over 365 years I’ve had some real painful times in a psychiatric ward broke out of the psychiatric ward was on the news my parents saw me i fraudulently flew to Las Vegas as a kid on through, beat the airports and everything and 15 years old and got stuck out there like crazy life I’ve lived. And so I’ve had a lot of pain. Depression is a massive thing for me rage and anger massive. So once you’ve got like, for so much of my life, I’ve just been trying to be normal, that so many things that was always unfair, like I have a good little boy, and life life, kicked my ass. And I think it’s the greatest gift I’ve ever had in my life now because I wouldn’t be so obsessed with making an impact and helping people. And so real estate is one of my avenues that that I used so I can impact lives. And I freakin love business. I love sales. I love it because I’m gonna freakin connect the dots kind of guy I see through walls. And so yeah, like it’s real estate, I sold my business because I was always trying to sell my business. You know, if I did it again, I probably could have done a little bit better. If I sold a little bit earlier, I waited a little bit too long, because when you got a cash cow running, you know, you’re free hundreds of 1000s of dollars coming in and you don’t need you literally don’t even need to show up. That’s hard thing to sell. So I probably waited too long lost some value, because some guys leave right? When you’re selling a real estate company, the biggest thing you’ve got is your systems and your team. And so and and your advertising. And if you’ve got a really good brand, you’re obviously buying the brand as well. And so to evaluate a company, it you can evaluate your company with your sales. So let’s just say I sold 100 properties, and my team sold 20 I can only evaluate my team is 20. Because you’re not buying me you know you’re you’ve got some you got some intellectual property, and you’ve got some, you know, my list, but they all know me. So for two years before I sold, I was moving my client base to my team planning to sell. But the thing is, though, I should have sold when it was at its peak, I didn’t know when it was at its peak, and I wasn’t ready. And this how it life is. But I ended up selling, I got a pay day. And I won’t disclose that. And in light of you know, it’s obviously not not for me to disclose. It wasn’t a massive payday. But I’ve structured a deal. That’s five years. So I get paid for five years because I know my base and I know how many people call me still. And I know that business. So I’ve kind of got similar situation to when I own the company a little bit less obviously, because I’m sharing now, but it’s like having a team skills for the next four or five years in the next five years. And I’ve got and that’s how I exited. I know other people that just took a quarter million dollar check, but the value, the value and it’s not the best business to sell but it’s a great business to exit with a sale like most guys just fade away like it’s crazy. You’ve got 20 years, 30 years, man if you would do you know why they don’t sell because they don’t keep a business. They’re a salesman with a phone, there’s no value in it. My value was I had full from start to finish processes built my assistant runs the business, my team systems, we had marketing out there we had all of these different things, but it was a business. It was run without me. That’s when you can sell it if it’s honestly right Without you, you know like I think there’s that’s the value. Why wouldn’t you like Cory McCune who bombed my company think what he has now he literally has t monster belt in the same town. He’s got my entire base instantly overnight, and my sales team and my office and my assistant overnight, it’s just crazy. Like the value that he picked up was just unreal. So why not buy a business? Why don’t even talk about this man, no many people right now why don’t you go the old timers and say I want to buy your list? Why don’t you come up with a deal? But guess what, you could probably buy it for a couple grand. They don’t know nothing. They probably didn’t even keep their list. They’re like, oh, sure sounds good. All you want is them on it for a year them to make send out a good email. So he’s joining my team as he retires. I had to plan for this. I was going to pick up all the old timers and build my team this way. Thinking imagine you could go you could literally get to 3000 people on your list by picking up these guys and have the retirement guru. I loved it. I love the game man. I love the game of real estate and building business. I could go all day on any business and I have all kinds of crazy ideas and never executed on I love sharing those with my crew love it. That that’s a great way so think about that’s business mind versus a salesman’s mind.

Erwin  

So then selfishly I want to ask question because we’re running out of time. So again, selfish question not for me. It’s more by my audience and all our people are struggling out there. Mostly mental health wise as no I think statistically, I think one in three people responded to a survey seeing their mental health is suffering but

Ben  

New strain of COVID

Erwin  

Are you suffering? That’s not really the question. Say you are suffering…

Ben  

Genuinely last year was the most oddest year one of the best years of my life and honestly really hard. After after the second year mentally did weigh on me like I like if you think about I got five kids now we’re trying to we’re trying to like they were home. My wife is my wife hasn’t gone to the gym that for a long time there was like there’s all this different stuff going on. We moved from Edmonton to Vancouver, like on paper, social media, it looks amazing. But that’s taller. And we’re I’m also going from mentally running a real estate business to full time, everything to do with coaching, which is a dream, which is that’s what I want to do. It’s kind of been doing that. But it’s like, I created more space. And it’s like, so cool, but definitely challenging. We’re looking at scaling, we’re building but I love the process. But I had to get really honest with myself, I put on a little bit of weight. And I was like, What am I doing what’s happening to me, because I disconnected with the emotional things I needed to deal with. I disconnected from it. So I could just plough forward. Okay, because I had to move, we sold the company, we renovated the house, we had to get the cool the skin the kids set up. So when you’re grinding so hard, what you do is you block out the emotion that’s telling you to slow down and I didn’t for a bit because I needed to move I needed to do these things. And the real raw truth of it is that it cost me a bit on my I was tired. I’m coming out of it now strong, like I’m definitely losing weight and I’m fixing that all up. No problem. I’m back on track. But the thing is, I had to come to terms of ya know, this got me a bit, they call me a bit and I realised I disconnected from the emotions so I could keep moving forward. And that’s my go to back in the day. That’d be a shadow of mine, where I’ll just be like, I don’t care if I’ve got a frickin broken leg. I’m winning the game I kind of shifted into like I kind of almost had to moving a company selling selling a company selling a house renovating a house moving to West Vancouver, you know, finding the kids schools practical stuff, like and but it was like, how are we going to move our kids we got multiple cars, like just plus running a real coaching business and national company had investment properties, just the amount of things that we hit through the transition of multiple things. I realised wow, I should have stopped and felt sad. I should have stopped and identified with my emotions instead of just kept pushing. And I’m okay with that. Like it. I’m not perfect, man. It’s It’s part but I’m very self aware that that’s what happened. I’m learning my lesson again. When we push too hard again, I push too hard again. And I could have done a couple more days off. I should have taken another weekend away during the process even though my life felt like I couldn’t. And so yes, my mental health definitely got touched. And now we finally feel like over the last few months like okay, okay, baby, let’s effin go baby, let’s go and I’m feeling back to myself like yes, eaten killer doing well, coaching is on fire and everything’s good again. It’s just like, it’s just part of the process. So mental health is and I’m stronger. Like mentally I’m strong. And so I know and I and I was living a 1% life in it. So I’m very well aware of the privilege and the privilege I fucking work for every dollar but anyways, back that’s another another another topic but I I am sitting in a privileged position for sure. But I worked for that. So but I think about the people that don’t have that. And they have the struggles and there’s more child helplines doubled from like a million calls a year to 2 million. Those things destroy my God. You’re talking about the police calls out there about battery like more and more about physical beating each other up and like just I think the undercurrent of our society is fragile right now. mentally. I really do.

Erwin  

That’s why I told my wife to do, to learn Krav Maga.

Ben  

Is that fighting Krav Maga. What does that again? 

Erwin  

That’s Israeli. 

Ben  

That’s legit man, those scary those scary dudes.

Erwin  

And they play for keeps. It’s like they cause damage, right?

Ben  

I’m gonna interview your wife on my podcast here. 

Erwin  

Ask her about Krav Maga.

Ben  

Erwin thinks that you should be a fighter.

Ben  

No, she took lessons on my advice. 

Ben  

Okay, cool. Good tip, I’ll ask her.

Erwin  

So you have a book coming out. Can you tell me about it?

Ben  

The richest real estate agent how to build a seven figure business without sacrificing your relationships. It’s the first mindset book in real estate that’s ever been written that has a tonne of unbelievable tactics and strategies, all wrapped in mindset and personal growth.

Erwin  

I wish I read that instead that other book called the Red Book, you know the one I have a feeling emails coming in.

Ben  

Erwin, I paid scribe, to help publish this book, I’ve invested probably $20,000 At least into writing it. These guys were they helped me so much because they said, Ben, if you read a tactical real estate book, you’re going to be invisible. Like I know, I don’t want to do a tackle real estate book. But I want to do a personal growth book, I want to do something that actually matters. And they’re like, Well, what if we bridge the gap? And I’m like, Yes, that’s exactly what I’ve been trying to do. And it’s very difficult to blaze a trail in in an industry that doesn’t have that trail blazed yet. So it’s like, is it gonna even like, no one’s going you need to work on your inner game. Hey, we’re a relationship business. Should we train on relationships? No. Lead Gen. Like, I get to me, it’s really obvious. So I’m the first and honestly, the results of the people going through my stuff is wild, but people are really having massive success starting from the inner game and the thinking. And so this book bridges the gap between a marketing sales business development book, with it all is based on mindset 100% on emotional intelligence and mindset, because you want to be in what is rich rich is like a like a very good dessert. Like if you have a rich dessert, it’s just rich and you want to wake up in the morning feeling like an amazing feeling on every area of your life. Money is not rich, but the rich is the marketing ploy the richest real estate agents good marketing. So we now have richest real estate agent group for real estate agents. And we have our podcast riches, the rich real estate agent podcast and the book and it’s coming out in April 2022.

Ben  

Oh it’s soon. Where can folks get it?

Ben  

I think check Amazon, my websites. Probably Amazon’s going to be probably the number one place people buy it. Okay, so that’s gonna be that’s gonna be the place that you can’t get it now but you can go to my website right now if it’s before April and join the waiting list. I’m going to do something special for anyone that wants to jump on my VIP early list. 

Ben  

Well, now I want to copy for everyone on my team.

Ben  

I have a feeling, I have this weird fire in my belly that’s like a this is this might hit home because Can I tell you something? Or when I have my group, right? And I asked the group, every time someone says I want to join your Facebook group I asked what is one way you get yourself in your own way? Dude, it is so crazy. Every real estate agents. I overthink. I have I’m a people pleaser. Like everyone has massive emotional, intelligent issues. They have psychological stuff that these and guess what it’s like, and there’s no solution for those. Unless you go to a therapist. I’ve now bridge the gap with this book, truly. And so people are going to understand how to raise their emotional intelligence become mentally healthy while building a real estate business that can truly hit seven figures.

Erwin  

I’m excited. I’m trying to bust through add dip through the book.

Ben  

I’m gonna do an audio book but I’m not doing it till probably the fall sometime. So I can relaunch it. It’s a good marketing one right to get once it starts dying out. I’m going to come up with a audio book and fire that baby up again. So

Erwin  

Sounds good. Sounds like it sounds like I’ll get excited enough to read a hardcopy.

Ben  

I think you’ll actually really like it.

Erwin  

Can’t wait. I signed up for it. Ben just been a blast. My team’s big fan of your work. And for context for listener like my team has been attended Ben’s events in Toronto. So yeah, all feedback is fantastic. Can’t wait to see the book. Can’t wait for For more events in Toronto. Travelling open up like crazy.

Ben  

Oh, really? I had it ready to go dude, for March. I was gonna come to Toronto, I had all things lined up and I was like, nope, cancel that baby. I’m not gonna risk it again. I gotta wait. Gotta wait. But it’s probably the book. I’ll do some touring. I’ll do some speaking and things. It’ll be fun. 

Erwin  

Awesome. Let me know. Let me know. Let me know when you’re out this way. 

Ben  

Yeah, you got it. 

Erwin  

Alright, cheers. 

Ben  

Thank you so much for having me on again

Erwin  

No, thank you.

Erwin  

Before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up to my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate from cash flow but with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there. Forget the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like I did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more register for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself but so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

 

On iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/truth-about-real-estate-investing…/id1100488294

On Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=87335&refid=stpr

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Youtube: https://youtu.be/M7PBVOZRPTc

 

On iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/truth-about-real-estate-investing…/id1100488294

On Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=87335&refid=stpr

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Z8yd37AQfQI5DK0J0Xwzz

On Google Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy50cnV0aGFib3V0cmVhbGVzdGF0ZWludmVzdGluZy5jYS9mZWVkLw

Youtube: https://youtu.be/1bfTiW9ux4U

 

On iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/truth-about-real-estate-investing…/id1100488294

On Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=87335&refid=stpr

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Z8yd37AQfQI5DK0J0Xwzz

On Google Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy50cnV0aGFib3V0cmVhbGVzdGF0ZWludmVzdGluZy5jYS9mZWVkLw

Youtube: https://youtu.be/DEXt8_0yXxg

 

On iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/truth-about-real-estate-investing…/id1100488294

On Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=87335&refid=stpr

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Z8yd37AQfQI5DK0J0Xwzz

On Google Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy50cnV0aGFib3V0cmVhbGVzdGF0ZWludmVzdGluZy5jYS9mZWVkLw

Youtube: https://youtu.be/wBl72p26ZPQ

 

On iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/truth-about-real-estate-investing…/id1100488294

On Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=87335&refid=stpr

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Z8yd37AQfQI5DK0J0Xwzz

On Google Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy50cnV0aGFib3V0cmVhbGVzdGF0ZWludmVzdGluZy5jYS9mZWVkLw

Youtube: https://youtu.be/BDezykEmHB4