** Transcript Auto-Generated**

Erwin 0:13
Hello and welcome to the truth about real estate investing Show.

Erwin 0:18
Today can

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a veteran investor, property manager and realtor buying a canadapost franchise? Yes, you heard that right. This is things we do to avoid long term rentals and grief as investors after owning a six Plex student rentals rent own house hacking, what is veteran Tim’s next investment? All this and more on the truth about real estate investing show for Canadians. I’m your host, I’m your host Erwin Seto. Me hail from Hong Kong and China. After a wonderful 10 days in Tokyo and Osaka in eating everything from grilled chicken hearts to fresh tuna belly to fry your own by Goobie. Beef. I think we just had a lot at least I did have what I think was the 10 best days of eating wildlife.

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memorable trip to funny enough that the most expensive attraction that we attended Universal Studios, Japan. So we’re hanging out at Hogwarts with Harry and Hermione, Ron, and also Super Mario World.

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That was not their favorite part of the trip.

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Instead, it was one of the cheapest things that we did, which was feeding hand feeding wild deer would the deer would bow to us and they happen to be the messengers of gods.

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To feed the wild deer I think it cost us about $18 and total of food and the kids couldn’t get enough of it.

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On the food scene, and the kids are normally car monsters. They love the bread, noodles and rice until they try Japanese Wagyu beef. Our kids are not picky eater. You’re picky eaters. So they’ll try anything, which is great. However, the downside is when they tasted by Goobie beef, we had to share with them

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for those foodies scoring at home. Well my Kasei anomic assay Wagyu beef Dinner for One, which included five less like typically less expensive cuts of beef, like short rib, shame.

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What else? Again, no dog has no usually lower category. But they had incredible marbling that cost about $26. Canadian and we shared it. If you haven’t been to Japan, FYI, the Yen is on sale. So everything when traveling to Japan is on sale. Do yourself a favor, book yourself a trip. It’s bucket list level, if you need tips or anything like that just reach out. If nothing you reach out, I’ll put together a document on what I recommend for a trip.

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And before I get started on this show,

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about real estate, I think I’m gonna talk a little bit about real estate.

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Again, I’m here in Hong Kong, and this is the least affordable city in the world. And real estate still nuts, even after a significant fall in prices. I’m grateful to be staying in last place. But it’s so different from back home. My home, you know I live in a detached home.

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Here in Hong Kong, we’re staying in the equivalent of barrier Barrie, Ontario, which is you know, far north of Ontario of the City of Toronto.

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We are on we are on the last stop that public transit goes to.

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In this we’re staying in a two bed, one bath. I think it’s around 600 square feet condo, and it’s worth about 1.2 million Canadian. And that’s after

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about a 20% correction after the protests and also COVID

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Hong Kong and is different in that it did not experience meteoric rise and real estate prices like we did have North America because again, they had civil unrest government locking down on rights here. And yeah, I own extended family members share with me how their rent dropped on a condo again here in Hong Kong. The rent dropped 11% between tenants. And there was a five month vacancy period between tenants. No, no, there was no renovation for those back home. And they you know, like in Vancouver or Toronto areas that you can see rates are under 1%. So no one’s experiencing five month vacancy unless you’re doing something wrong.

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And guess what? In 823 square foot condo rentals for 823 square feet. Keep in mind the average two bedroom in Deltona, Vancouver, downtown Vancouver

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over Toronto is about 35,000 to 37,000. Again, obtaining knowledge for the average two bedroom in Vancouver or Toronto,

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do you have a number in mind?

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The new rent for this 823 square foot condo is just over 6200 Canadian dollars per month

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on a condo that will be worth around 1.5 million. Again, real estate over here is nuts are cheering I look into some to invest in real estate here in Hong Kong or Japan. No, we have no plan to invest here. It’s just so unaffordable. The minimum capital to invest here is just so high. The financing rules here require down payments at 50%.

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And for that amount, I could own a house, I could pay cash for a house in the states that comes with land. And it’d be in a good area in a Top 10 Top 10 town and they would cashflow better than here in Canada, their cash flow better than here in Canada. After that the Chinese government restricts the amount of capital allowed to leave the country. So Chinese so Chinese citizens are forced to invest locally, which they have excessively, which has caused an artificial bubble for Chinese real estate. So for me, there’s just too much risk. I’m generally quite risk averse. So

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as much as we are enjoying your stay here is December, and I’m dressed in shorts and a T shirt on over eating like pigs as I like to do while it’s mostly me over indulging in comfort food like dimsum we’re on a current streak of three days in a row of having Chinese brunch. Because Dems

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have been popping pineapple buttons with fake slices of butter. Food is wonderful over here and relatively inexpensive because there’s no sales tax and tips are much smaller.

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We’re enjoying our stay. But I’m reminded that there is no, there’s nowhere just like there’s no perfect place to live. There is no perfect investment either. I do literally love where I live, I’m home, we’re not moving away. And I’m talking about a lot of other places in us investing. But we’re not leaving our home west of Toronto. The schools are great. My friends, family clients are all great. We love our house with a pool and a view.

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But there’s so much that I don’t like about what’s happening in our country, the amount of debt, the exploitation of international students are understaffed healthcare system. If you read the newspapers, I do have the new mo that the sunshine list was published,

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which contains

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public servants who make over 6 million who make it the incomes of the six figures. And it was full of nurses making over 200,000 Thanks to working obscene number of overtime hours.

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And that’s because of our nursing shortages. So we’re in we’re already in crisis mode over there. And then yeah, to that we are in a housing crisis. I just read if you haven’t read it, I recommend that you do. December’s Maclean’s magazine, where the cover story is details how tenant unions have successfully organized rent strikes. So there’s hundreds and hundreds of people in Toronto with the support of the Toronto mayor, and they’re not paying rent. And it’s just the low end rental buildings either. Even newer buildings were were a one bedroom were written for over $2,400. They have over 550 tenants striking as well as their building was built after 2018. So they don’t have rent control. And they’re not happy about having to pay market rents either.

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The rest of the striking tenants do have rent control, and they’re protesting landlord tenant approved, landlord tenant board approved above guideline rent increases for capital costs, like roof replacements, balconies. But the tents don’t want to pay for those renovations. And they’re complaining that contractors are allowed slow and disruptive to their enjoyment of their property. Welcome to living through a renovation.

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There is no way that this ends well. With no rain coming in. They’re going to scare the private sector remember investing in building purpose built rentals

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and there’s no money for maintenance. If the landlords are smart, or say like they are, they’re gonna report the rents that hence credit rent, like I recommend to all my clients that they use landlord credit bureau. So what a landlord can rent report, a tenants rent to the Equifax and pretends not paying rent, then they take a pretty big hits to their credit, because rent is typically a tenants largest expense. Someone has to pay to maintain the building and all costs have risen, replacements brutal out there. I can again I don’t see how this ends well. I certainly don’t see how this motivates the private sector to build more rentals or for more local investors, mom and pop investors to get into the market

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In the US, whoever in many of the hot markets during COVID where they don’t have rent control, they overbuilt purpose built rentals and rents are coming down.

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I shared a screen capture from a tweet from Jay Parsons. If you don’t follow Jay Parsons on Twitter, I suggest you do. He posts a lot of great information on multifamily in the States.

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From the 2024 realtor.com forecast, report, it states that new home builders have also overbilled, so there’s pressure on prices to come down in the States. See what happens when people can actually build stuff and then prices come down, which is what we want during Canada.

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highlighted in the report also is that Austin, Texas is expected to lead the country in price declines and negative 14% and I’m excited to buy in invest in one of the best cities in what I consider in the world for investment based on economic fundamentals at discounted prices. I’ve already booked my flight to to Austin for January. Austin is a four hour flight away for Torontonians just the Calgary is, but I prefer warm weather golf and comedy. The best comedy club in the US is actually owned by Joe Rogan and it’s located in Austin. More important to real estate is that is high paying jobs.

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Elon Musk has already brought 10,000 jobs to Austin via Tesla and SpaceX. So that’s old news. New news is Samsung is building a $42 billion microchip manufacturing plant near Austin that will directly employ 4500 people. If you are a real estate investor, all the jobs. And I’ve done my research, I can’t find many of these types of jobs careers in Canada, outside of like Austin and St. Thomas, Ontario. But again, I can get a house in Austin cheaper than I can in Windsor. And the economic fundamentals do not align. And there’s

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so many good paying jobs in warmer weather climate with no state tax will attract a lot of people and that will drive up house prices and rents.

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And there’s no landlord tenant board. In my opinion, that will be a formula for successful real estate investing. And again, their developer friendly in Texas. So first off, I need to solve some interesting properties to raise some cash and then I’ll Bendel hit the MLS the first week of January, which is the ideal time to sell student rentals.

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When students when students get frustrated with limited supply of rentals,

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limited supply and limited quantity, supply quality housing,

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and also how rents in my market are the $100 a room, the math will make a lot of sense to buy instead of rent, or the more savvy deep pocketed parents. So that’s why I’m timing to be selling in January instead of waiting for the spring. My pre listing inspections are done repairs and renovations have started, cleaners are lined up and I can’t wait to invest down south where investors are wanted.

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And also for improved cash flow. When I was touring Atlanta, a typical investment property there, a house with three bedrooms and two full bathrooms was around three and 1000 and rents for 2000 Plus utilities per month.

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So for those more savvy with numbers, the gross rent yield is just about 8%. And that beats most investments here in Canada without having to shell out hundreds of hundreds of 1000s of dollars. No major renovations like a basement or in order to develop a property.

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This is how we’re going to make real estate investing great again, if you’re interested in learning more about how to invest in the US the tax implications Corporation setup. I mean seeing working best who will answer all those questions on Saturday January 13. At our Ireland offices in Oakville, Italy. So we’re also simulcast simultaneously broadcast via zoom so if you can’t make it in person, so for example, if you live in BC or Alberta, Quebec, you can just tune in via zoom. We’ll have about 40 seats in person and they tend they will sell at the first the fastest details are in our newsletter, email newsletter and in the show notes, while the link to register there. onto this week’s show. We have my old friend Tim Hall. We’ve been associates at Rockstar real estate and coaching investors since 2011. Together, Tim has done several joint ventures and rent to own an apartment building rentals. Tim has his own property management company for condos to duplexes from Toronto to Hamilton to Kitchener Waterloo. In his newest venture cashflow play, Tim acquired a private off market canadapost franchise and he is approaching one year of ownership. And he has drastically raise revenues. And he’s here to share how he’s done it, why he’s done it, what his next investment is, and how he did it, considering the fact that he’s managed to stay married.

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Probably having three

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Have kids and two dogs to follow Tim, check them out Instagram underscore Tim Hong underscore, or you can email him at Tim at infinity well.ca Please enjoy the show

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Tim, what’s keeping you busy these days? A

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quite a bit of stuff. running multiple businesses doing real estate. Property Management. Last year we bought a canadapost store just down the street from here. So three kids as well. Two dogs. Yeah. Two dogs, right. I remember. Yep. The dogs. Yeah.

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Three kids weren’t enough needed a second dog. Apparently chaos. Once it calmed down after the kids. It’s just you add a layer of chaos. And it just makes things better, I guess.

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Do you just like, do you just like a lot going on? Yeah, that it seems like when there’s less stuff to do when say for example, the kids go sleep at the inlaws or my parents, then it’s just like, Ah, it’s just relaxing.

Unknown Speaker 16:10
Because that last dog wasn’t even like a regular dog. It’s a pup, you got a puppy. It’s got a puppy. That was like a birthday impulse purchase by accident by accidentally

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dropping off the one original dog at the breeder and they don’t start from for boarding. And they had puppies. And they’re like, Oh, that’s so cute. Who said was the who was the dog? The kids? Are you guys? Us? Me and Kirsten. Oh, okay.

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We’re looking at it. So.

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Alright, I don’t even know where to start. Because you said a mouthful.

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Let’s start start the start the canadapost. Okay.

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Once what do you what do you mean, you bought a Canada Post. So last year,

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my wife didn’t really want to want to change of scenery from her current place. And I was always looking for, oh, I always look for some opportunities and stuff like that I’ve always wanted to own kind of like my own business. Originally, it was always a restaurant. But restaurants very, very difficult margin wise and to open and to run in the hours. It didn’t make sense at this time in our life stage. So we were looking around and found this Canada posts. So it’s just off a doorbell and North service road. So it’s authorized canadapost outlet. It also sells greeting cards like your your Hallmark greeting cards, birthday cards, wedding cards and stuff like that. And he’s on card. We’ve added a card and a lottery as well. So we looked into it kind of saw the numbers actually fairly cheap because the owner previous owner has been there the so the store has been there for 20 plus years in that Plaza.

Unknown Speaker 17:52
The current owner was probably there for 10 1015 years, they’re getting tired.

Unknown Speaker 17:57
Lot of inventory missing from the store, half the shelves were empty, found out that they were driving from North York to Oakville every day. So opening at 930 leaving at seven o’clock at night that drivers go to it’s very, very tiring. And they were a little bit older a couple. So they just wanted to sell. And I was looking at it as almost an investment property like real estate where we go in, increase the sales, and then potentially either hire out hours because its owner operator right now or flip it as a business. So throughout the past year, we’ve been adding new stuff to sell new inventory. We’ve been working with other local artists selling on consignment. So artists that have been selling off Etsy or Amazon, they’ve come in and put their artwork or handmade jewelry handmade cards out. And then we just sell it on consignment for them, give them a little bit of a store shelf to showcase their product. And it’s kind of a win win for everybody because I don’t have to buy wholesale for inventory. And they have a place to show they don’t have to rent space or anything like that. We’ve added passport photos over the past year, adding more inventory. And based on kind of the Canada Post sales from January to September. Looks like we’ve increased sales about 15% so far.

Unknown Speaker 19:22
Increased Google rankings were the highest ranked Canada Post in Oakville right now. So if you search Canada Post Oakville were one of the highest rank ones there. So when we took over it was like 1.2 stars. We’re just over four stars right now. It got down that bad a Yeah, it was pretty bad. So like if you’re looking at it, you’re looking at a distressed house essentially. So it’s a distressed business seller was wasn’t motivated anymore to stay there. They were lacking inventory, they are lacking customer service. And those things are an easy fix. Essentially, it’s like cosmetic pinked renovation. So it’s an easy fix.

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All right. And so the goal is, by the end of this year, I’ll have better numbers because the biggest thing was wrapping my head around. When you order inventory, you order it, you get it, but then you don’t pay for it, usually 3060 days down the road. So the cash flow is up and down. So that that was one of the more difficult parts to kind of figure out and kind of understand what’s going on on that one.

Unknown Speaker 20:25
And you’re happy with the purchase? So far? Yeah, not too bad. So far.

Unknown Speaker 20:29
In terms of we have our we’ve already refinanced it. So we’ve kind of we burned the store, essentially. So we don’t have any money in it took all original funds out. So then just slowly paying back the refinance loan now. And then, again, we’ll see by the end of this year, either hire out more hours, or maybe flip it middle of next year. How’s the current financing Merck? Is it like, is it like BDC, or something like that went through BDC is actually from BDC. It was actually a very, very simple online, just submit because of an existing business, just submitted some existing numbers. They were okay with everything you didn’t meet with anyone from

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interest is high. Interest is high interest, low percent, right. But it’s, it’s an unsecured so it’s kind of like a line of credit, essentially.

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10% is like secondary, like, second mortgage money. Yes, that’s actually secured on something Yes, unsecured.

Unknown Speaker 21:31
It’s unsecured. We’ve met with a couple banks as well, but they want to evaluate the loan based on

Unknown Speaker 21:40
inventory and what you would potentially sell it at. So it was harder to get through a traditional, like, a bank loan versus BDC was actually very easy to work with. So it was all online. Yeah. That’s crazy, literally never have met with any we like the like the numbers, you just input them, you’d have to upload documents or corporate status asked for like monthly sales. That’s it, and just keep it in. No one reviewed. No.

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accounting stuff. And I was like, I don’t have it because we were only were we we were only six months. And we never did accounting yet for it. So they looked at the business looked at this. And I’m like, Okay, sure. Here’s 12%.

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I’ll take it any day.

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Easy money.

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Obviously, the store the profit of the store movie goes down, because you have to pay back that loan. But it’s all again, deductible interest and stuff like that. What’s the term of the loan? Like? Is it like a 10? year, five year? So you’ll be paid off in five years?

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Then you have a free and clear asset? Yeah.

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That you have no money in? Correct? Yeah.

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That generates income on a monthly daily basis as essentially, it’s not so bad. And then again, we’ve increased the inventory, probably about five times as much as the previous owner. So it was still a little bit to go as it takes some time. We didn’t want to throw a whole bunch of money into the store. Like we didn’t want to do a full paint or like renovate the shelves and the floor plans or anything like that. We just kept the existing business. And just improved customer service improved, here and there. And slowly. We’re hearing customers come back saying thank goodness that you took over the store, from the previous owner. Always good signs, though. Yeah. Because I’ve hung out with you. And I’m like, people, you have like a relationship with your customers. Yeah. And I would want one thing I was hearing. I don’t remember who said it, but it was just treating your customers like family is like they’ll always come back.

Unknown Speaker 23:44
Some customers, not the greatest, don’t listen to some of the rules and some of the questions to deal with. But just gotta be patient with most of them. Some of those ones. Yeah. What kind of target returns were you looking for? When you’re like qualifying the business?

Unknown Speaker 23:59
No expectations, actually, in terms of probably looking at it, it was probably not the right way to go at it to begin with. It kind of just looked at it. I was like, the numbers look like it’s good. It looks like it kind of at least breaks even it might make a little bit of money based on what they reported. Because what they reported one is that they didn’t even kind of let me know how things are reported. So canadapost was reported differently versus

Unknown Speaker 24:27
their greeting card sales, for example. And how they reported their greeting cards, kales was through the old your cash register, little receipt slip and they printed it out. It was like a foot and a half long and I’m like, I was like what is this? Cash sales and stuff like that. So even the Canada Post side is that how it works is

Unknown Speaker 24:49
they’ll though you make the sale but canadapost takes a portion of it. So you make a percentage essentially kinda and then there’s no franchise fees or anything like that. And so you

Unknown Speaker 25:00
but you do. Once you make the sale, for example, you sell $100 worth of stamps Canada Post, post takes x amount the following day. So you collect $100 from the customer, Canada Post takes their percentage the following day from your bank account. So didn’t realize how that worked at the very beginning when looking at the original number, so no, essentially no expectations going into it, probably not the right way to do it. But based on what I saw it look like the numbers at least broke even I’m like, if it breaks even, okay, that’s good enough, or we can do something with it. It’s definitely risky to do it. But I wouldn’t say it wasn’t calculated. Did your typical sat outside the store for an hour? See how many people counted how many people go in? Went into it multiple times as a customer before actually making an offer and stuff like that? Does she know your know at that time? No, she didn’t. When we’re walking, I wanted to go buy lottery tickets did the mailing just to see what you’re like a secret shopper for yourself?

Unknown Speaker 25:57
And then just after do that, just sitting outside the store for an hour just counting the customers going in and out of it. Okay, so just to see. And then where’d the money come from to buy the business? Just cash

Unknown Speaker 26:10
from bitcoins proceeds from the

Unknown Speaker 26:13
real estate proceeds like savings and checkings. Yeah, so it wasn’t in terms of the business itself. It’s, it was cheap, I would say.

Unknown Speaker 26:24
Because it included some inventory. But it was it was cheap. Because a couple of reasons I want a listener to extract from your story is there’s a whole lot of people trying to avoid long term tenants in Ontario, and you have a lot of experience with long term term hold tenancy properties in Ontario. And here are buying a business and there’s a lot of people interested in buying businesses these days. Because that’s there’s there’s opportunity there with rates high. A lot of people have don’t have legacy plans where like, like, for example, the seller, this business likely had kids. Yep. Probably didn’t want the business. Yeah. Right. Yeah. They didn’t want the business at all. Yeah. And they were in uniform. I think they were both in university, or

Unknown Speaker 27:05
not even that like probably mid 20s, maybe out of university. Just in either finishing, or just that would I don’t remember off the top of my head. Yeah, it’d be one nothing to do with the business day one. And like literally the day, so we took over just turning the October 31. Last year, the day of closing, the the lady just gave me the keys and left, left everything in the store. She just took her personal belongings haven’t seen her since her husband came by a couple of times just to pick up everything. They left everything they didn’t want her dog they just wanted to go on. Right. So first couple months was pretty crazy. I don’t know what to do. I didn’t know if half the mail would actually get to where it was going.

Unknown Speaker 27:44
Did three intense days of training. And that’s it. And then just thrown into the fire here because I’ve been monitoring listings not nearly as deeply as you did just just out of curiosity. But that seems to be the seems to be the trend is there’s

Unknown Speaker 28:01
a lot of people up there and age, who don’t have some family to take it over. They don’t have something to sell a property to the business to they don’t have staff to sell it to. And I see there’s lots of listings. And the funny thing is almost all of them are offering seller financing. Yeah, I think like 80% of them are immediately offered seller financing as a as an investor into a business. That’s actually great.

Unknown Speaker 28:26
That’s great to do. And then those are the businesses that you want to jump into kind of those ones that have been around for a while the seller is retiring or they don’t want it and there’s ways to make it increase in terms of sales, whether that be customer service, automation, technology, anything that would increase sales, like systems anything. Yeah. existing customer base. Yeah. Right. It’s easier to get it because

Unknown Speaker 28:54
I find so many people just like they want to do everything themselves. Like there’s nothing wrong with walking into a situation that’s turnkey. Yeah. We’re doing an ill it’s turnkey. But in this case, yeah, we are doing everything ourselves or throwing a lot of hours in there right now. But it is what it is what’s kind of planned. And then once we kind of get the numbers and we can start hiring out, then I can if I if not putting that many hours into it, then I treat it as just a cash flowing investment. That’s it. So then what’s the what’s the next phase? I think you mentioned, the next phase is to hire. Yeah, by the end of the year, we’ll figure out I’ll have better numbers because it’ll be a full true calendar year for as this will be stabilized the number Yeah, and then we’ll have we have all the inventory already stocked up so we’re not kind of paying for the inventory anymore. It’s just kind of the replenishment, then I’ll have a better idea of who we can hire and how many and how many hours that I can kind of take off and start doing other stuff again, very, very, very, because you’re not busy enough. Not busy enough now.

Unknown Speaker 29:52
It’s my understanding is you got back into property management. Yeah. So me and my business partner decided this. This earlier this

Unknown Speaker 30:00
Here, to kind of jump back into it, we kind of figured out what the systems that we needed properly

Unknown Speaker 30:08
to make sure that our one our time is spent well, like previously, when we were doing it, we had up to about, I think 50 doors. And we sold off a block of those doors back in 2018, I think it was 2019. So it’s been three, four years, just because we were busy with our other stuff. And we didn’t want to grow that business anymore. And but now in that time, we were taking money transfers from tenants. So everybody was sending me EMTs. And then I was manually entering them in. So we use a property software called Bill Diem, I find it really good actually.

Unknown Speaker 30:45
But payout to owners, we couldn’t be empty all the owners because there’s limits on the EMTs. So we use a third party called Pluto. So everything was manual at that time. And it just made it very time consuming the first couple days of the month, just collecting all the payments, making sure all the owners were paid correctly, and no mistakes and stuff like that. But now we’ve set it up that every all the tenants pay through direct deposit through the software, and then all the owners are paid directly through the software as well. So they get direct deposit to Oh, that’s fantastic, is that through building them everything’s through building and right now. So we set up proper business accounts a little bit annoying to set everything up. But it’s now saved ours the first couple months. And then in terms of like maintenance, my business partner will take care of all the maintenance stuff. So when maintenance request comes in, we’ll deal with the tenant, outsource it to either our third party, either handyman that we have on file or contractors or whoever we need, get it all done coordinate with a tenant, a lot of the times we asked we actually tell the tenant here, here’s our contact for handyman.

Unknown Speaker 31:55
Reach out to them coordinate a time to fix it, get it done, and they’ll invoice us. So we are not the middleman in that one. If they say it’s an important thing, they’ll contact that they’ll they’ll answer and they’ll reach out to the contractor, if it’s not as important than that they won’t. And we kind of kind of gauge the seriousness of the issue or the maintenance request. So for example, if something’s like, oh,

Unknown Speaker 32:24
I don’t know, the, the dryer doesn’t seem to be like it’s drying properly. Okay, here’s our appliance guy, reach out to them, book them in, and they, they’ll come over and take a look. And then once they do the fix, they’ll invoice us. But they don’t reach out to the dryer guy. That means it’s the maintenance request was never actually urgent. It might, it might be drying, but it might not be drying to their standards or whatnot. But it wasn’t urgent enough to actually get something done. Obviously, if it’s a flood or something, we will get it done right away. But if it’s something like something like that something smaller, we’ll get them to kind of coordinate and kind of we kind of gauge, okay, if it’s actually an urgent request, or if it’s more of a the want something interesting. And then how big do you plan on growing this business?

Unknown Speaker 33:12
Right now, I think we’re all we’re about just under a third back to about 32 or 30 doors right now. So we’re looking to double it by next year. And then we’ll kind of go from there. We don’t want it to go to too crazy. It’s still I would still consider it almost a not really a side project. But an extra stream of income for both of us that we had the system is now in place that we don’t need to put any as many hours into it. We have a leasing party as well, that will help us do the leasing. We do the final vet in terms of the tenant as well. So in terms of me before, where I was going out to do the showings and stuff like that, I don’t have to spend as much hours as that I just meet the final tenant, do the final yes or no on that one, too. I’ll still meet the muscle, get the final say and then. But then, again, spending less hours. And what I’ve learned even from the past year from the store is finding ways to either automate systemize use technology to make things easier. So take that concept and apply it to the property management business at the same time. And then listen to other property managers that have been doing it for a long time and take bits and pieces from what they’re doing and what other tenants don’t like from what I’m hearing that and then apply to it because some of the tenants that I put in, probably about four years ago, when we sold our book of business, those tenants were still there when I took over when I message them back. Hey, hey, it’s Tim. I don’t know if you remember me, but I was managing the property before and multiple of them said Thank God you’re back. The previous the other property management was a gong show. So that was still around that previous PM. They’re still around. Yeah, but I don’t know that I don’t know how they’re doing. So the easiest method uses business, not the easiest business if you’re I

Unknown Speaker 35:00
They were trying to grow very quickly, but they didn’t have the systems in place. So we are growing slowly with the systems in place right now. So we’re taking on clients here and there in the Kitchener Hamilton area, and then

Unknown Speaker 35:12
condos within the GTA.

Unknown Speaker 35:18
And then what other pieces of technology are you implementing to make this easier are using like single key, for example, like the screen or using front lobby or anything like that? Yeah. So with, it’ll be kind of single key to use for tenant screening and reports. I forget the name. There’s also bank, one that we actually look at for bank transactions. So we can tell if they say they have no pet, but we see them on a monthly basis, go to the pet store, and then we kind of know that they have a pet. So there’s, I forget what the name of that one is. But yeah, technology like that to make the screening easier. Reports, easier income, check, employment check, verification, first and last, everything like that. References, realistically, I’ll talk to previous

Unknown Speaker 36:03
see if I can talk to the like this. Not the existing landlord, but the previous one before that.

Unknown Speaker 36:10
Any existing landlord, and any reference isn’t typically going to give you a bad reference, if they’re willing, if that tenant is willing and eager to even think of it as if you’re an employee, right? You’re not if somebody asked for a reference, you’re not going to put a reference down, that, you know that they’re going to say bad stuff to it. So calling references is I’d rather do with third party checks, social media checks, call the business to see if they’re actually like, employed their HR checks and stuff like that.

Unknown Speaker 36:40
Fantastic. Yeah. And if they call me and my rents are like $1,000 below market, you better believe I’m motivated.

Unknown Speaker 36:48
Or not, you’re like, Oh, is there no issues? No, there’s no issues whatsoever. They’ve paid rent on time. They’re a little bit dirty, but they paid rent on time. But they’re so yeah, so there’s so for that one. Yeah, we’ve dealt with over the years, a bad tenants. Majority are good, though. Like the majority are very good. Sometimes you do with deal with the bad ones that for whatever reason, maybe a couple months in something happens, separation from boyfriend, girlfriend or family member or whatnot. And then just it goes down the rails and then that’s where you get the landlord tenant board. And that becomes an issue. Now here is the delays that we’re dealing with, which is difficult for an investor, manageable if you know what you’re getting yourself into. But it is difficult, because the delays are seven, eight months or longer. How often does so say the tents have a marital breakup? Or boyfriend girlfriend they break up? And? And do they actually get to landlord tenant board? Sorry, what gets them to land on a temporary did not pay rent because they can’t afford it? Yeah, so either a non payment of rent, and then they don’t leave? Or if for example, it was you were selling the property and buyer was coming in and you were actually moving in or even if you were actually legitimately moving in to the property and they dispute it saying that they don’t believe you are disputing the move in. It depends. I think it happens more obviously in, in multi families. Just because it’s it seems less likely that an investor or somebody would that we move into a triplex for example, there is definitely possibility but it’s less likely. So what problems are so stiff? Yeah. So once they dispute it is doesn’t matter if it’s if they’re going to lose, right? That’s about seven, eight months, there’s going to it’s going to the LTV hearing, minimum seven, eight months, barely disputing to stall and or be a pain or they can’t find a place or they actually truly don’t believe the investors moving in could be a number of reasons. So we had a investor sell their house last year, October 2022. And the tenant was in there. Good tenant, single mom actually had a bunch of kids. It was an immigrant family that’s been in there for four or five years. So we worked with a family or a company to put them in always paid rent a lot a little bit more where the wear and tear than normal just because of the kids

Unknown Speaker 39:07
sold it October 2022 gave them the proper notice. They were supposed to leave end of December 2022.

Unknown Speaker 39:15
They didn’t leave prior to that we filed for the landlord tenant board hearing, just because we knew that they might give us a potential issue. We didn’t get the hearing till June of 2023. So this year.

Unknown Speaker 39:29
So the six mil hyphal. From the day that they were supposed to leave six months, got the hearing they didn’t show up, didn’t get the court order for another six weeks. So another month that half mid July, got the court order. Day after they were supposed to be leaving then they didn’t leave when to the sheriff to go file for sheriff waited another four weeks for the sheriff to get them out. And I told the Luckily somebody was actually helping them out at that time. And they paid rent through the whole time. So that’s a good that’s a good thing. They just didn’t want to move

Unknown Speaker 40:00
Have they there was a communication barrier. We tried to get them a translator but kind of fell through didn’t really work. The so they just did that they didn’t want to move. That’s it. And then they didn’t realize what was happening until they until the very end. And I told them, I was like, I don’t want to get in a situation where the sheriff comes, and all the things you want you all the kids around the house on the street, and legitimately you are going to be kicked out because we have to change the locks. So I kept on explain to them, they actually got some help. And luckily they left the day before Sheriff came.

Unknown Speaker 40:30
No, no issues, locks changed. And then the buyer closed, the buyer came along with us for the ride for almost a year essentially, who was buyer was this just a buyer that was planning to move into the property. But this wasn’t clear. And not the buyer, the client, the seller was our client, our client so and close the property timber this year. So pretty much 11 months from the original offer accepted offer. They were out again, luckily the tenants paid rent through the whole time. No issues there. Luckily, luckily, yeah. So when I’ve heard stories where tenants aren’t, aren’t paying and stuff like that, and not the greatest way to deal with it, it’s more about communicating from what I’ve learned is just communicating with the tenants. And just understanding where they’re coming from trying to get them out. A lot of people want to do with called Cash for Keys. I don’t actually like that term. So I’m starting as of today, and most people have heard me on our meetings and stuff. Call it a

Unknown Speaker 41:30
loan agreement, compensation for cooperation. That’s what we should call it as it landlords. Don’t call a Cash for Keys. I’m paying for your moving expenses. Yeah, call it there. You’re compensating them for cooperating with you. That’s it. And it’s a move out agreement as well. Yeah, we should say that the term the Cash for Keys, it’s just it’s a bad stigma for us as landlords and then for tenants, they’ll use it against us.

Unknown Speaker 41:56
So I don’t like I don’t I never use that term with my tenants. I’ve never used it with a tenant. Yeah. So I’m paying your moving expenses and it’s causing some people trouble some people will on the agreement when they sign like an 11 on the separate agreement where it says Cash for Keys. Oh, they don’t.

Unknown Speaker 42:11
Don’t do that. Small little move out agreement. Call it compensation for cooperation. Something just be expensive. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, this is disruptive. Like

Unknown Speaker 42:23
it’s a nice thing to do not pay your moving expenses and maybe your first and last month’s rent or something like that. So majority of tenants are good, like

Unknown Speaker 42:32
most the most we’ve had to pay a couple months out in terms of rent out. Never had to deal with a tenant that wanted a lot of money. I’ve had situations where they start where they say they want a lot of money, but it never happens that they actually get looks a lot like 10 or 20,000

Unknown Speaker 42:49
the highest one we just saw was 18,000

Unknown Speaker 42:54
and they ended up getting their last month’s deposit returned to them

Unknown Speaker 43:00
you have to know how to negotiate to

Unknown Speaker 43:05
speaking negotiation bill this isn’t just happened overnight like you’ve been around like you’ve been around real estate a long time. Do you kind of like that give us an abbreviated version of your real estate investor and coach journey. But guess who knows house hacking before I was house hacking back in 2005 when I was downtown Toronto working corporate living in a two bedroom condo two plus den I was living in the master and renting out the sunroom and the and the other bedroom in the sunroom too cold there was too like it’s fun French doors. Yeah, thanks we call it so two sets of French doors on it and windows and then privacy screen on the French doors. So

Unknown Speaker 43:47
it’s nice sunlight in it

Unknown Speaker 43:51
and then oh I do remember what you were getting. Remember you’re getting read 600 bucks a room I think

Unknown Speaker 43:58
yeah, yeah, these days these days is ridiculous. I’m probably this room now easily, like 1200 1200 right now. has doubled. Yeah, it’s just sad state of affairs rent rates. And then after that, got my first real like straight rent actually, I think I believe his rent to own property in 2008 2009 I think it was oh, good timing. Yeah, not bad. And then what was what was your kitchen? Of course, yeah, that makes sense. And then over the next I think three to four years ended up getting a couple more street rentals

Unknown Speaker 44:33
jumped into a six unit building in Hamilton and then officially licensed back in 2011. Okay, about your turn. Okay. That’s an 11 I think and then did a full time I guess investor coaching in 2013. Starting so been seen it seen it seen it all essentially.

Unknown Speaker 44:56
It is a Yeah, you are ambitious and yes. 16

Unknown Speaker 45:00
That building on Main Street, and it was a nice location because you overly were looking for looking good right across from gage Park location like so the idea was right, the timing.

Unknown Speaker 45:11
Not right for our US, for example, and so me my JV partner jumped into it.

Unknown Speaker 45:16
I think we bought it for 350. I think at that time 350,004 66 unit building. Obviously the idea with any multifamily is go in renovate while there’s vacancies increase the rent, but at that time, it was 2010. So what’s that 13 years from Holy crap, that’s quite a while. So 13 years, Hamilton Main Street East across from gage park, you can kind of figure out what the tenant profile was at that time. So went through it model building two old building purpose built six unit building, two bedrooms, one bathroom and each of the units. So great building in general, but a lot of maintenance stuff like deferred maintenance. Yeah, just wait, did the previous owners do anything? Any serious capex capital expenditure a little bit, but no, no, not a lot. It doesn’t you need to do like the roof. Originally, Windows a boiler? Well, we didn’t touch any of that stuff. Because it was too expensive for

Unknown Speaker 46:11
the next guy. When we were when we originally bought it. We were looking to cashflow about 1000 1200 bucks a month.

Unknown Speaker 46:19
Yeah, it was negative about that much. So after all the good learning experience for that one. So after all, everything, we held it for four years. And at that time, it was one of my JV partners was going back to school to get his MBA. So he’s like, I don’t I’m not working anymore. So I don’t have any more salary to help compensate any of this. Yeah, I can’t handle the negative cash flow. So we ended up selling it. So it went up in value. I think we sold over 450 500 I don’t remember exact number. But after all the money that we put in for renovations, tenant issues, dealing with everything we actually ended up with net negative about 30,000.

Unknown Speaker 47:00
Negative 30 Yeah, so we lost 30,000. So if you’re negative cash flow, yeah, so we made money on the sale, but after everything in counting for all the expenses over the past four years, we ended up losing both 30,000 or and with all those headaches that went with it. Yeah, because you’re dealing six six tenant six problems. So multifamily for me, not one. I don’t manage any of them. And right now I don’t want to manage that’s why we’re keeping to single families condos and duplexes that most and for me to own I don’t want to deal with I have enough problems. Three kids and two dogs enough issues at home. I remember that property because we went through it with I think one person that locked himself in you can not get in like he failed to show there was there was like two very loud dogs that I’m not too sure what’s very angry dogs or dogs. They are all smoking and the other thing I think of it but jority of the tents were home during the day, which is usually a red flag. Yeah, so a lot of them might have they don’t work jobs or ODSP and stuff like that. Some non payments of rents not a lot surprisingly more of a maintenance stuff and then complaints so like one guy was the guy on the top floor I remember specifically he he ran water for like days straight and our water yeah been locked himself in Yeah, our water bill came up to like, I don’t know that month probably like 900 plus oh my god for that. And we got like a letter saying why is the water so high and stuff like that. But he’s not the smartest tenants. You should have ran hot water. Right. So we just ran the Goldwater. But yeah, just dealing with that stuff. I’m like yeah, I don’t want I’ve dealt with it don’t want to keep right now in my stage of investing is just simple. Yeah, it’s just simple single family or condos. Even though the condos might not cashflow just long term simple. I have one downtown that’s negative cash flow. But I look at it 10 years from now. Like it’s owning something downtown New York, downtown Toronto, like could use it for school potentially for the kids. I do have a JV partners on that one so they could use it for their kids. We’re okay in terms of where something’s like I like simple right now, after dealing with everything, it’s just simple. So your your journey and also towards like heading towards simple is quite common. Normally people are aging who’ve been around for a while, versus like there’s so many like new course grads who like rah rah rah and we go buy apartment building. You got to do Cash for Keys for all 12 tenants and going through you know, each unit no 25 $30,000 renovations and you know, you’re gonna do a strategic repositioning, I think we call it and then in 510 years, that has been cashflow. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 49:44
Yeah, I get that. We find that like, obviously, the more complex the deal, the more money you’re more likely to make from it. But I’m okay right now with kind of just simple, small,

Unknown Speaker 49:57
small kind of single bait single singles and double

Unknown Speaker 50:00
See here and there in terms of that I don’t need a home run investment right now. So so how do you deal with capital for those those bigger projects? You need? You need some deep pockets. Right? Well, you need some deep pockets for even single single family property duplexes in order to make a cash flow. Yeah, right. Yeah. So are you is like, if you’re buying a property today, what would it be? And how much we would you be putting down?

Unknown Speaker 50:25
Obviously, you want to boy, if you’re putting your standard 20% down? Probably.

Unknown Speaker 50:30
Because you’re buying, say, let’s say you’re buying a duplex for 800,000, whether it be Hamilton or Kitchener?

Unknown Speaker 50:36
That mortgage payment by itself at the interest rates that we’re at now, it’s probably forgot four grand by itself. Right? Right, right. And you’re only probably going to be only getting about 4000 in rent, right? Let’s say, get market 25 2000 or something like so 4000 to 4500. But you also add in your property taxes, your insurance, any utilities, and if you borrow that he’ll like your down payment from your HELOC, then your your you got payments on that. So getting to a cash flow stage, now, it’s much harder than when we were buying in 2008 2009. Those were those are the good days, it’s under 200 grand. Yeah, it was great, and much, much, much looser mortgage rules and stuff like that now for your amortizations. Now you’re buying Yeah, now you have to put more down. So you might not be running, you might be thinking, Oh, I’m gonna but I have, I have multiple I have 20% down, but I can buy four or five properties. But the numbers don’t work in terms of cash flow. So instead of putting 20% out, you might put 40% down on one property to get a cash flow. And if there is ways you might have heard some banks have 40, year amortizations. But you might have to ask for those ones.

Unknown Speaker 51:47
Everywhere. principal residence is way they pushed it away out, trying to keep my payments steady. Yeah. So it’s, it’s it’s very, it’s tougher, definitely right now to invest in the cities that we are investing in right now. Still possible, you just got to kind of change the strategy, change your expectations a little bit. Because once interest rates kind of calmed down a little bit, hopefully, then the cash flow will be there a little bit more. And it’s not like many investors are going to be living off cash flow. Like before, when we were investing at the very beginning, people were like, Oh, I’m gonna have 10 cash flowing properties at 1000 bucks a month, I’ll have off $10,000 a month in cash flow. We’re not even close right now. Not even so you’re gonna branch off the equity. Yeah, you’re drunk on the equity, you’re looking for longer term appreciation, mortgage pay down. And a lot of the investors that we are actually, again, they’re offloading right now to do money, take money off the table that they’ve done for, they’ve held it for five, six years. Okay, let’s put an extra 200 grand in our pocket, right now pay down some debt, pay down some debt, they might travel. But again, it’s a safety net. It’s it’s liquid assets now instead of something tied up.

Unknown Speaker 52:59
So it is a

Unknown Speaker 53:02
because a friend of mine was pointing out to me how we’re, we’re we’re pretty much 2021 prices again, November 2023. Right now, we’re our prices are back to 2021. But rates and tight like the overnight lending rate, and you can’t always like point to five. Right? We’re like five now. So we are several times higher in interest rates, but we’re the same price. Yeah. So and most of the smart money thinks there’s gonna be a cut sometime mid next year, early next year crossing fingers crossing the years. And also at the same time, just for the listeners benefit from those who are newer banks typically offered that their best discounts for the spring market, right to compete for all the volume of business that’s going to come for the spring market. And then it’ll be an interesting spring market.

Unknown Speaker 53:48
My guess is we may be at the bottom now, or it may even past it, because fixed rate fixed rate mortgages are coming down. Right? Because the because the expectation mortgage rate expectations the way they’re going

Unknown Speaker 54:00
permission, no one thinks they’re gonna be another increase here in Canada or in the US. So fixed rates are already coming down both here and in the US. So that will that will that will stimulate the real estate market. And then the spring will be another one. But also I get the sense in from speaking to clients is that many people are waiting for the spring to sell. So we may see a lot of inventory. So then we’ll see which where we end up if the there’s enough buyers out there to absorb the sellers. Yeah, I think we’re sitting about three to four months inventory across most of the cities that we’re looking at. So it’s still a buttered split. It’s yeah, it’s all new construction condominium versus like on the on the ground starter home. Yeah. All right. So we’re gonna see if rates stay kind of steady or come down, the buyers are going to feel more confident come back into the market. And then with the immigration that we’re seeing now in like, I don’t know, they were making numbers. I don’t know. It’s just hundreds of 1000s. So there’s not enough there’s not enough homes. They’ll never build enough homes faster.

Unknown Speaker 55:00
stuff, even if they have the immigration number, it’ll still be like the Harper level immigration number, which was a historic high. Right. So it’s still humongous. And we made lots of money back then.

Unknown Speaker 55:13
So it’s, it’s, it’ll be, I think it’ll be kind of stalled out for now for until the end of the year, just because typical Christmas holiday season for real estate is always typically slower and banks aren’t aren’t promoting aren’t passing on the savings rate in December, it’s the December announcement will kind of dictate where things are going, I think. So if we have two announcements in a row where rates are held, then I think we’re in the right direction. It’ll be interesting to like,

Unknown Speaker 55:42
cuz, even just like in the spring, this year, when the Bank of Canada went, Macklin said they were holding the market went nuts. Yeah. And then it raised in July, was it? Yeah, and then it raised the coolant. Like we said, we weren’t raised just kidding. Just kidding. Sucks to be y’all. You go. Yeah. But damn.

Unknown Speaker 56:00
Bad, fascinating times.

Unknown Speaker 56:03
But yeah, if you don’t want like, there’s opportunity now, but

Unknown Speaker 56:07
it’s just advisable that you’re using it, you’d have higher cash down payments, yeah, high cash down payment, run the numbers properly, whether you’re using HELOC or not, but yeah, you’re not the days of looking for $1,000 cash flowing duplexes. Now, it’s it’s difficult, because the great investments like there’s the great the best opportunities I see right now are there’s there’s a whole lot of groups that are that are having to fire sale power of sale. still seems to be a lot of buyers for like apartment buildings, though. So I’m not in that space. I’ll have a friend on the show soon enough to ask, like, what are the apartment living spaces. But for example, this past weekend, and I was telling you before we were recording, like a song was selling a duplex and Hilton turn T sold for 740 which is like, probably 25,000 less than any of us thought it would sell for. So there’s those very motivated sellers out there. Yeah, but even 740 Like, you’re still gonna have a fair amount of cash and we’re gonna make that thing cashflow. Yeah, right. And also, the point I should add is, it was a tenant to property, which hurts sale value, which is anything with a tenant right now definitely is moving slower. One because one, buyers don’t want to deal with him. And they and investors do know about the landlord tenant board delay. So if there is a delay getting into the property or vacant property, they know that deal might be squashed just because of that tenant.

Unknown Speaker 57:33
We’re not even sure if that was an investor buy was buying okay, because it could be a homeowner, yeah, even a homeowner can try to move into it. They if the tenant doesn’t leave, they can’t close the property. Or if they do close it, they’re dealing with that tenant and the LTV themselves. What’s your current what’s your experience with selling a tented property versus a non non tenant property so it can be vacant or the or regular homeowner lives, they’re much easier obviously, because the with the tenants, if they’re cooperative, then it’s easier, but you still want to give them the 24 hour notice. You still have to let them know the whole process of okay, this is initially okay, then we’re going to take pictures I’ve had tenants say they don’t want pictures because of their personal belongings. I’ve had tenants cover all over the walls with bedsheets because they didn’t want pictures in it, they covered everything on the kitchen. Because they didn’t want pictures of it a little bit ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker 58:27
But like, that’s up to them, we can’t force them to say

Unknown Speaker 58:33
we have to take pictures of your your photos or your personal belongings if they want to cover that’s fine, we just have to work around it, but it’s not ideal. And then for showing purposes of other potential buyers that are coming in, the harder you make it to for them to view the property. For example, if I see a property on the listing right now, and the buyer wants to see it, say it’s say it’s five o’clock right now and you want to see it tomorrow at 11. You can’t see that tenant of property unless that tenant is a very cooperative one. So you have to give your proper 24 hour notice. So you might you might lose that buyer right away because they can’t get in. So with a tenant property, it’s much more difficult. Obviously, you set the expectations with the tenant first to make it as easy as possible. So most of the ones that were that have listed right now,

Unknown Speaker 59:18
all the tenants are pretty good. We still have to give the 24 hour notice. But some are even okay with short notice where an agent was in the area and they message over as I want to show this property. In the next couple hours. I text the tenant and they’re like, Hey, sorry, last minute, can this agent short? They’re like, Yeah, that’s fine. That’s okay. So as long as you set the expectation with the tenant first, I think it’s a good thing. And if you’re coming in as an agent and you know the rules and discuss it with the tenant and tell them the whole kind of the process of it. They’re kind of at ease. You’re not the property manager, you’re not the landlord you’re coming in as a third party, a knowledgeable third party that you want to make sure that they’re comfortable. In help in kind of even though there is a sale in

Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
what their rights are as well. So again, most are good. There’s only a whole theory, a few here or there that will dispute it on purpose, or maybe not like, by accent like the family that we had dealt with. There’s just kind of a miscommunication. Part of the challenge, though, is that a lot of sellers and agents aren’t familiar with working with tenants. They aren’t, especially if they’re not landlords. Yep. Because we’ve seen it. We’ve seen them in the the LTV

Unknown Speaker 1:00:29
who are deservingly there in the LTV, because it tends are complaining about them. Yeah. Because they don’t follow rules and whatnot. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:36
So kind of a difficult question. But like, say it would say just an average property that’s tenanted, how much longer would it take to sell? And how much do you think a discount would apply? For a tenanted property versus a homeowner occupied or vacant? timewise? I would probably say, at least a few weeks right now, a few more weeks to sell to sell. Yeah, dollar wise, it’s hard. I’d have to run some numbers on kind of the properties. But you’re probably especially if it’s going to be a like a duplex, for example, single family not as much just because there’s one unit, it’s one unit, more than likely, it’s going to be a homeowner buying it. So they’re going to be moving in, you might have a little bit discount because of the wear and tear or something of the property itself. Yeah, but interfer like a duplex, you’re probably looking at, I don’t know, 2530 grand, probably at least compared to an empty one. Right? Just because it’s the rents might be low, and it’s going to be more about the math thing versus the tenants itself. It’s like if the rents if they’ve been in there for a few years, and the rents are low, not as many investors are going to be buying and then for sure, because I’ve spoken to many Realtors around the city around around

Unknown Speaker 1:01:45
like us, like it’d be do a lot of Hamilton PwC Guelph, what? Bring it forward? So I’ve spoken to many of our counterparts in the city and around the city as well. Yeah. And it seems to be pretty consistent that, like the best practice is to, you know, let the tenant know, you’re selling given time to leave, and then you have a chance to clean up the property a bit in order to maximize your sale price. Yep. 100%. Yeah, yeah. Some don’t want to go that route some investors, because once the property is empty, then they’re carrying costs, they don’t have anybody covering their carrying costs. So it’s kind of a catch 22 on something like that. What you want to do is like, Do you want a higher sale price and a faster sale? Because it’s empty? But you are going to be having monthly Hyperion costs when it is empty? Or do you want to sell it with the tenant where you might get a lower price? Or it might take longer?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:38
So it’s up to the investor and how the math works out for them essentially.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:43
What would you do?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:45
If it was your property? You have a tenant? Do you have a tentative would you sell it as is? Or would you try to wait for the winter that are gone?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:53
Or do your move? Do your moving agreement? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:58
It’ll depend on the tenant first, ideally, you want them to leave first, I would want them to leave, it’s just much easier to show much easier to coordinate and stuff like that.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:09
And like you said, it’s kind of a business case by case for, for example, my students, student rentals are generally much easier to own Yep. And they’re generally much more cooperative as well. Like they have less of like, family belongings in the house, it’s usually much more like business. The rooms are much more business.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:27
Like just like, what they need to live away from home. So they’re not nearly as protective or private. About their stuff. Yeah, they don’t care as much. They don’t care as much.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:38
But we were talking before the different recording, because we know many of our clients are planning to sell in the spring.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:45
Should they not? Shouldn’t be, shouldn’t they be letting the tenant know what their plans are now? Yeah, you definitely like, like, I was just talking to a couple JV partners on our condo actually this morning that we’re probably planning to offload next year. So we’ll probably just give the heads up to the tenant now just saying, Hey, we’re actually looking to sell the unit next year.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:07
This is the two scenarios. If it’s an owner occupied, you’re gonna be given 60 day notice once we finalize the deal, and you’re going to have to move out, you’ll get one month’s compensation because of that, but you will have to move out. The second option is that you an investor buys it and they assume your lease but because it’s a condo more than likely is going to be owner operator, like a own buyer that’s going to be moving in and then position it to them potentially saying so if you don’t want to go through the kind of the uncertainty of when we’re actually going to sell it. If you want to move out at the end of this year or say end of January, we’re more than happy no no penalties or anything like that. Then get them to sign out sign like mutual release form. And then in 11 form and then do the move out agreement things and 11

Unknown Speaker 1:04:57
and 11 mutual release Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
So starting out with talking to them, obviously. But you might not listen again, it’s, it’s okay to listen now. But I would say in the next first two weeks of December, it gets a little bit trickier just because the market is not going really quite yet squarely quiet. And then you start listening early next year.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:19
Because we’ve seen spring, you see early next year, we’ve seen spring market start as early as February. Yep. Especially if the weather was good. Yeah. And there was like, Yeah, after that, like the the economics look good, for example. So there’s a rate cut in like March, February, March. I don’t think it’d be that early. But it could be actually. Then yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see crazy activity. Yep. For sure. Well, it’s the idea of the buyers are more confident. So they’ll come back into the market? Because they know that they’re getting in.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:48
They’re getting probably at the bottom of the market. Yeah, yeah. And within real estate, we’ve saw the highs and 2022. Like, we know that duplex will eventually sell for a million, but you can buy for 750. Now. And you know, again, it might come back down a little bit. But there is going to be kind of a price floor for that property that everybody thinks it’s a good deal. Because if you go around looking at those but same bungalows, right now, if if I told you you could buy one for 500,000, how many investors are going to put up their hand right away for that property? There’s that price floor for for those types of houses no matter what. So we know where the value could go. And will it get there? Yes, probably. But we just don’t know the timeframe over yet. It could be two three years. Could be Yeah, it could be longer, because he’s not bad at all. Yeah, it’s not bad at all. Make 30% or more than 30% 30% to three years appreciation. Yeah. But again, someone’s got to have the cash and the confidence to do so. Yep. And that’s what I meant. Like, there is opportunity locally, it’s just not

Unknown Speaker 1:06:50
it built, it takes a lot of capital, you have to be able to inherit, you’ll be able to be comfortable inheriting tenants. Right? Not cash flowing much. And they know you’re gonna try to minimize your risk with dealing with the right tenants, obviously. So proper screening and stuff like that, if you are assuming tenants a little bit more difficult. But if you’re buying a property, and then you’re renting it out, then spend a little bit more time to get the proper tenant versus somebody in there quickly, as well. Yeah. Because my experience has been that most people do not screen tenants as diligently as we do. So when you inherit, it’s usually, well, some of the stories that I read off of the Facebook groups. I was like, how did you get this tenant in there in the first place? My worst hand ever was inherited. Yeah. I know the feeling. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:42
So we talked about journey, you’ve done a lot of things. Like you’re wearing a whole hat. Yeah. FX trading? What what in what does that led you to? Like, what are your lessons from that? Like you said, now you’re doing simple was FX trading simple.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:00
I think you make whatever you do, you kind of

Unknown Speaker 1:08:03
make it how you want essentially. So like I’ve done like, I’ve tried

Unknown Speaker 1:08:10
Amazon arbitrate arbitration and stuff like that. We’re all but buy toys from Toys R Us in like Walmart and flip on Amazon 30% profit. And so like it works, like all of it works is just finding something that you like to do that fits with your lifestyle. And that can change over the years. Yeah, so FX was before back in 2018 2019 fairly aggressive with it in terms of how I trade. Now it’s just simple. So not as much trading anymore. The market changed who changed the rules was the big one rules changed the types of brokers that you are working with change for leverage stuff. So you could do with like, I’m not I gotten what is it non regulated broker before I think you still can, but it’s much harder, like with getting your money in and out and stuff like that. So things change that will kind of make it easier for you and what you want to do yourself. So for me like even Yeah, even trading wise, it’s just simple for like, crypto stuff. I was trading it before. And then the market went crazy because of the drops and stuff like that. So I was like, Okay, go to hold just now I’m just huddling, just holding just by no trading on the on the crypto stuff at all.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:21
Same thing with FX and kind of simple. Kind of keep things simple. Don’t have to worry about it as much over me. Right. So like, I don’t like to use term regrets because I think there’s way to learn. But I think you’ve kind of explained that like the six plus lost money. Yes. You probably wouldn’t want to do that again.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:43
Oh, and also you?

Unknown Speaker 1:09:45
Somebody sent me I forget how long ago with next six months. You said your next property you buy will be a single family home. Yep. It’s in then for the listener. They’re probably like shaking your head like why would you buy a single family home like you can’t make any money doing that?

Unknown Speaker 1:09:59
Yeah, it’s not

Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
For the cash flow, like I want to basically I just want breakeven, essentially, and maybe negative My threat personal threshold is about $300. Negative a month is where I would want to cap off at.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:10
But again, it’s just keeping things simple. I don’t want to deal with two tenants. For the duplex, I certainly want to duplex personally. Yeah, so it just wants single family. Long term, long term buy and hold, essentially,

Unknown Speaker 1:10:25
in the cities that I would want, like, again, I prefer Kitchener Waterloo just because born and raised there. So I do I do want to get back into that market for the next one. And just might take some a little bit of time just for the numbers to work out. So what are you buying like apartment condo? You’re buying a detached three bedroom? What do you buy? Ideally would be the next one would probably be just a detached starter family. Like, like our what we’ve originally purchased back in 2008 2009. That’s for a lot more money. Yeah, that’s where a lot more money. Alright, so hang on this for you. Let’s work through this. So how much would that property be right? Right now?

Unknown Speaker 1:11:00
You’re probably looking at a decent ones. 757 50. So you can buy a duplex for that, but you don’t want your

Unknown Speaker 1:11:09
Okay, that’s gonna be on the high I guess. The higher end you’ll probably find something the 650s but 750 Let’s just we can work with that number. Okay, and then what would you rent for? But probably both, let’s say 3000 a month. 3k per month? And how much do you think you’d put down to get to like 300 bucks a month? You’re probably looking at, I would say 35%? Down? Minimum. Invest cash, right? I mean,

Unknown Speaker 1:11:34
ideally, yeah. Like assume it’s cash savings or whatever you want to pull it from? Yeah, right. And then we’re gonna gonna burn this thing.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:43
Ideally, I don’t want to I don’t know. I don’t want to burn like I just want turnkey for me. It’s I wonder if you’re gonna buy a renovated property. Yeah, okay. You know, you only want to renovate it. I don’t even want to renovate anymore. I don’t have time to renovate it. Even though I could get it the team to renovate I don’t want to I don’t want to time right now. She just got rid of a dog. You maybe have more time. I’m kidding. I’m

Unknown Speaker 1:12:01
sleeping gate open.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:03
Kitty has a terrible joke. Terrible. Better when?

Unknown Speaker 1:12:08
So that’s what you want to do now? Yo, because uh, because uh, you know, Monty, we welcome him on to

Unknown Speaker 1:12:14
those condos. He even said to me, he even down we’re leaving a condo vacant. Just so not to deal with tenant stuff. Yeah. And just sell it. Yeah. Right. That’s so wild. How, how we have I always find it fascinating because that’s part of the point of the show. Jupiter real estate investing. We’re not here to Shell glitz and glamour and rainbows and shoves blow smoke up your ass. We’re going to tell you like what it really is. And you’ve been on this journey. You’ve done the hard stuff. You’ve done like the hardest on us to the point about the six Plex that I’ve been bringing up was is a tough tenant profile. Yeah. And a building had, like, had like minimal maintenance done to it through its life. Yeah. So it was difficult property. But the area was wonderful. Yeah, it was we were probably what, five years ahead of our time on that one that, again, if we had the if we had deeper pockets, it would have been a great investment. But at that time, just again, this gage park

Unknown Speaker 1:13:08
right about you walk across the street from Main Street. It’s huge park. Yeah, because gage Park was even like Toronto magazine or something. It was like the best place for Torontonians to go live yet for affordability and whatnot. Right.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:20
So

Unknown Speaker 1:13:22
so it gives goodbye many levels. But yeah, just difficult tenant profile. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:27
And also, the other thing I’ve been bringing up as

Unknown Speaker 1:13:30
ODSP disability is not indexed to inflation. And that was always like a rule of thumb that that I’ve used, right. I’ve tried to like No, no, that wasn’t your plan to go in to get ODSP. Yeah. But people need to consider these things when they’re buying an apartment building or buying any property. If you have tenants who are who are indexed to inflation, their income is indexed to inflation. How you ever gonna raise rents? Yeah, right. Now we really know what inflation feels like these days. Yeah, back then. And when it was 2%, we didn’t feel so much. Yeah. But But yeah, it’s a good learning lesson for deferred. But for the listener, yeah. It’s more complex. The property like there is more money to be made on it in the future. But you just have to deal with a lot of stuff. Also, depends what you pay for. Yes. Because we track the property because it’s sold at least twice since you’ve owned it. Yeah, I think the last one was, I think 1.1 I think it was, might have been higher. Excuse me. So they paid like almost triple what you paid. And it’s been 10 Year 10, almost 10 years old. Kind of makes sense. Whenever when we know the tenants are still there.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:35
Maybe the main floor would

Unknown Speaker 1:14:38
be the main floor.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:41
So yeah, my point is it’d be tough to make money at that is because you didn’t do the rent. You didn’t do the roof or the boiler No, we just saw sold it before we sold it before we could actually figure it out. Let’s because it was like around that time it was like the roof was like, I think it was like a quote for like 20 30,000 because it’s a flat roof and you’re doing the whole

Unknown Speaker 1:15:00
I think you’re doing the whole roof because there was like patches in there and but like we got that one corner like, nope.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:06
Because they might give him imagine what it costs today because inflation Yeah, I’m sure it’s more than gotta be at least double that now probably Yeah. Crazy. So interesting. Tim sort of hog the conversation at least guiding it. Anything else you want to talk about?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:24
Specific? I don’t know, I think we covered we covered everything for now.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:29
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:31
It cracks me up that you can buy bitcoin through Canada Post.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:36
Yeah, so you can’t Well you’re you’re paying a bill through bull bitcoin is you set up an account with bull Bitcoin? And basically, it’s non KYC. So you don’t have to put any of your information in other than the ERC. 20. No, your client, your client don’t have to disclose anything. Yeah, so you can only buy a maximum of $999.99. But you bring in a QR code and it will scan it you pay cash or debit? And essentially it’s a bill payment, and you’ll get your bull Bitcoin account funded and then you can buy Bitcoin that way, right to your right to your wallet. They don’t cuz custodian, custodian, sorry, still do custodial your Bitcoin? Oh, yeah, don’t hold it. It’s on an exchange. So you have it right away. So I bought some like, two days ago.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:23
What’s your strategy with Bitcoin is long term savings, like long term savings, I found out that

Unknown Speaker 1:16:31
you can actually pay bills with your through bull Bitcoin, right now. So I’m actually thinking of putting more money into Bitcoin. And when my bill comes up, use it to

Unknown Speaker 1:16:42
pay for my bills. Interesting, long term, like, I’m not that smart, but very smart people that I know, have seemed to be jumping into that space where even bigger hedge fund companies are like, black with black rock. Block ones, I don’t know. Blackstone? Yeah, those ones are they’re talking about ETFs. So of that type of money is talking about Bitcoin, you know, something’s happening there. So it’s jumping into those long term saving, I don’t know what the value would be later on. Hopefully, I can retire in a couple years with it. And we’ll go from there. And I don’t have to do anything as of as much. What’s canadapost involvement is just because just because they’re just there’s a bill payment? Yeah, so canadapost uses a third party or bill payment company to and you’re not really buying Bitcoin, but you’re paying a bill. That bill is invoiced from both Bitcoin where the money goes towards. So essentially, but you can just call it like, yeah, you’re buying Bitcoin from Canada Post, essentially, it’s kind of funny, that this kind of posts that they promote this, no, it’s not promoted. Because it’s like a bit, it’s that third party payment is used, actually across a lot of different people as well. So you can even go pay your taxes at Canada Post. So you’ll have your CRA, you’ll print a QR code, bring that QR code and scan it and make a payment. So it’s kind of the same concept there. But with another company called Bitcoin. Fabulous, you

Unknown Speaker 1:18:16
know, you guys manage student rentals.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:19
Some here and there. Not a lot. No, no, you went to Waterloo, Waterloo students for their fine there. Okay, deal with Jessie I’m trying to keep things simple in terms of the management side as well. Just don’t want to deal with that many tenants in one building because you’re essentially you can break it up to new rooms like a duplex, you can count as like your two doors, two units. So it’s like two extra properties that you’re managing versus one single one. So just keeping it simple. It’s still a big story these days because because you can turn over the students on some regularity. So again, you have a chance to raise your market rents to market yeah, I’ve never had issues with students either for non payment I’ve never taken a student to like LTV at all. So as an investment always always good I think

Unknown Speaker 1:19:05
so what’s what cities what students what cities will you manage for students in

Unknown Speaker 1:19:10
Hamilton and Waterloo Kitchener Waterloo area Yeah, so I’m still on the West End. Yeah, right. So I mean, smack Mohawk College Mohawk Yeah, it’s on the map. Go to college. Is our console in Hamilton No, no in

Unknown Speaker 1:19:23
there all the all three are in the same area. Yeah. But they’re in terms of like those there’s less and less student rentals in Waterloo because they built so many condos there.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:33
That’s actually good. That’s actually a good

Unknown Speaker 1:19:36
a good thing to share. Because we’ve had experience we’ve had quite a client purchase one not not for us, not through us and we advised against How’d that work out? They sold it but I think they broke even so for those ones that purpose built student rental condos if you got in very early right at the beginning. It kind of made sense because the for the first two years because you’re

Unknown Speaker 1:20:00
The incentive was always two years free maintenance two years free rental guaranteed rentals. So your two years were fine. But it’s the exit strategy right now is that a one bedroom or a two bedroom condo is selling for 500 or less, I think not even 500. I looked at one like 450, for example, plus the condo fees of $400. But they’re renting over 2500. So as an investor, as a true investor, that you don’t have kids going there, you’re not going to be buying that

Unknown Speaker 1:20:31
your only buyer profile will be parents that want their kids to be in university.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:38
So you’ve just limited your your your exit strategy to pretty much a couple potential types of buyers. Because as you and me to go invest, we’re not going to be investing into a student rental condo that doesn’t cash flow, it doesn’t make sense for us whatsoever. So the only people that are buying those condos after clients are selling is that their kids are going to the university for the next two, three years. And even then I was out this past weekend with one, they have two, two kids go into University of Waterloo, they’re from Vancouver. And I told them I was like, Yes, this is the closest up to the university, you’re walking distance, everything all of many of these are close. It’s great. But your exit strategy is going to be very, very difficult after like you’re not you’re already there to sell potentially at a loss maybe. Or you might even break even if you’re lucky, right? So not the worst compared to paying rent. Not the worst, not the worst. But if they have the funds, which they are qualified to do, oh, why don’t you go get a detector or even a semi detached or even a condo townhouse is even better than a condo student rental apartment that you can rent four or five rooms to and your exit strategy chair is much wider in terms of your buyer pool. So just deposit seconds because we I think we need to elaborate that this is market specific. Because Waterloo has like when I saw the plan, I was like shocked how many how many apartment buildings or a building? Yeah, there’s gonna be a surplus I think of after all of them get built out. There’s gonna be a surplus. building more still. Yeah, they’re still building. Yeah, they had the original the Phase One was too many years. There’s a lot still.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:12
Who’s buying all these things? Like all the houses that used to be on the side streets when I was going to university, they’re all of them are torn down. Yeah, building the condo townhouses. And I think it’s similar across the different cities like I’ve seen condos, the student purpose built student rentals be in London and queens, like not as many in Hamilton Actually, no, they’re not Hamilton. But for those other cities, it’s same strategy is that make sure you know what your exit strategy is? Like getting in the first two years? Yeah, great. After that. They might be a gong show. So So why Why can’t just regular people live in these condo? You can. But why would you like if you’re young?

Unknown Speaker 1:22:52
If you’re a young professional, so you’ve graduated, and you’ve spent three, four years in these places. And now you’re working at let’s say, in your Waterloo and you’re working, you got a job. You had a nice job at Google, for example, do you want and you’re getting paid a good amount probably close to six figures probably even coming out a university at Google. Is do you want to be living with 500 students from first year up to fourth year for fifth year? Is it rowdy? Is it dirty?

Unknown Speaker 1:23:19
I wouldn’t say it’s a I would say it’s dirty or the maintenance fees will typically go faster from what I what I know because just think of your own student rental that you have six students and multiply that by 100 When you have 500 students in the same condo building, right? So it’s just that idea that not as many singles if you even if you young couple that are married you’re not going to be moving into that one you’re probably going to go down to the downtown core or you can get a condo a little bit more but it’s it’s it’s more classy, I guess. Yeah, just the amenities will be more targeted to you versus being near the university which you probably don’t really care Yeah, you might have you might have a cost yours you security there. I don’t even know if these student rental ones have like gyms or anything. I’m not even too sure. I don’t even remember off the top of my head but well, their students they can always go to the school. Yeah. Now what happened to like the real estate values around those condos like the houses like did like these Waterloo student rental condos, they wipe out the student rental market for the houses. No, there’s a lot of people that want to the renters like the students renting the Yeah, they still want the houses because we find that the they want to rent in groups similar to like Hamilton, where there’s a group of five group of six after first second first year. They want to hang out with their friends. Well, the cost is cheaper. The cost is going to be cheaper because that two bedroom condo is renting for 20. Let’s say 2500. That’s 1250 per room essentially, right? Where a house you’re probably paying eight to 1000 Wow, rents. Wow, rents. There’s still that much pressure on rents. Yeah, there’s still pressure. There’s still demand, but because when you’re Wow, most of our investors are providing good homes, like they’re nicer than your typical student rental. So we’re getting told

Unknown Speaker 1:25:00
rents for them.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:02
So and they’re willing to pay if it’s clean if it’s it’s still close to the universities and stuff like that. And these are licensed four or five bedroom licensed. Yeah. Waterloo has licensing, which is annoying. But if you buy one today and do a conversion, can you get a six bedroom or there’s restriction, you’d have to do like a three and a three or a four and a four. The top unit bottom, you can’t get back. You can’t get back. You can’t. You’ve got the bias, an existing six, you’d have to buy licensed five plus or more. Yeah. And then the transferable though, like, it’s not Trent, the license isn’t transferable. But you can apply based on the previous license criteria, essentially. So if it was a five unit, like a five room license, you can’t get that five license anymore, I don’t believe but because it was done before you can still apply for it. It’s kind of like grandfathered in. But you’re not. It’s not a transfer of the actual license itself. Yeah. How much is the how much to get to get licensed? And what’s the ongoing three to 600 bucks a year? Yeah. Plus, every few years, you have to do an H back

Unknown Speaker 1:26:09
inspection as well as the ESA inspection as well.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:13
Yeah, even if you don’t do anything to the ESA or a track, you start to get inspected. Yep. It’s just a waste of money. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a money grab for this. And it’s a complaint based system where once you’re licensed, be like if the city doesn’t go around checking this the rentals, right? So only if somebody complains about it to the city, will they come out? So once your license doesn’t really matter at that time, I’ve seen a lot of licensed rentals that look like how did this get licensed? Right but they still have to upkeep the H back and they do but we’ve heard of stories where if you know an H back or ESA electric master electrician, they just sign off on it.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:55
Right?

Unknown Speaker 1:26:57
Fascinating, right? Yeah, Timmy I know you gotta go thanks so much for doing this. Where can people where can people reach out if they want to get a property manager or like guy but ours are been there? I’ve been telling our clients if they want to sell in spring they need to talk to you like ASAP Yeah. Where can people get emails the best?

Unknown Speaker 1:27:14
Tim at infinity wealth dossier. I think that’s our website. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:19
And then and then what you want to share your Tiktok your Instagram for the Canada Post store, Instagram, it would be card and party’s a store. So card. I think it’s just there’s hyphens in there somewhere. But search up card and party Oakville, Instagram should pop up tick, tick tock might pop up. We just post cards of the day that are funny, essentially. Some are inappropriate, but just posting for fun here and they’re fantastic. Thanks so much, Tim. Thanks for having this. Thanks. Alright.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:50
Thank you for watching. If you want to learn how to invest in real estate from scratch, my team teaches beginners how to use the number one investment strategy that I personally use in a virtual free training class every month. Go to investor training.ca/youtube To register for our next class. Then links also in the description as well. I publish at least two to three videos a week here. So subscribe if you want to keep learning from seasoned investors like myself, my guess? And if you’re just starting out, feel free to ask questions in comment below. And I’ll do my best to answer each of those comments and questions myself. Again, if you’re ready to learn the nitty gritty about real estate investing from a professional investor register for our next virtual class at that investor training.ca/youtube Thanks again for watching. See you in the next video.

 

 

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