School Math Expert With 22 Doors in Windsor, ON, W/ Kyle Pearce

Only three weeks to the Wealth Hacker Conference!  😍🥳

The timing couldn’t be better for an event like this on how to manage the upcoming storm. This is only the beginning, and we’ll share how the world is changing.  

Newer Investors and entrepreneurs are fearful, as they should be, but like last time, the great recession and credit crisis was the last, best time to make a fortune.  

This cycle will be no different, so get your tickets for the Wealth Hacker Conference; on Nov. 12th at the Toronto Congress Centre near the airport for one day only.  

www.wealthhacker.ca for tickets, my discount code for you, my favourite 17 listeners, is the five-letter word ‘TRUTH’.

 

I’ve asked all our expert speakers to include in their talks what they are doing with their own hard-earned investment dollars and when.  

I’ll also be sharing how Cherry and I are dusting off an old strategy that had fallen out of favour and is now the ideal investment property in this inflationary economy we plan on implementing once the conference is over.

I hope to see you there: Saturday, Nov. 12th, all day for one day only. GET TICKETS HERE.

I trust everyone had a great week and weekend!  

My brother’s wedding, which was delayed for two years thanks to the pandemic, finally happened, and it was awesome!!  

It was great to see so many friends and family whom I hadn’t seen for some time was great.

One friend of mine, an RCMP officer, let’s call him Dan.  Dan was visiting from Alberta; he used to live in and work in Toronto and still keeps his condo in town and rents it out. 

I helped convince my friend to keep his condo when he moved as a hedge in case he ever wanted to move back to Toronto and in case prices went up.  

Yes, even condo prices are down in Toronto, but they’re down much less than detached houses that sell for over $1.5 million. 

The “affordable” (least unaffordable) starter home market is still very much active since rents are so high along with interest rates, it’s natural for the demand for entry-level real estate to increase.  

No different than how no named grocery store items like President’s Choice and Kirkland are selling better than ever these days.

Anyways, Dan shared with me how grateful his investment property has worked out, and the importance of intergenerational wealth is for home ownership.  

I can’t agree more, and the timing couldn’t be better to invest in your education and networking.  

I can’t recommend enough that folks join us on Nov. 12th at the Wealth Hacker Conference.  

Our last event changed many peoples’ lives for the better.  We’re hoping to 10X the returns for our attendees this year.

School Math Expert With 22 Doors in Windsor, ON W/ Kyle Pearce

On to this week’s show!

Today we have Kyle Pearce who’s a real estate investor with 22 doors

Kyle’s been investing since the last recession being braver than many buying the dip in Florida, back in 2011. 

He’s a Stock Hacker, and has an online education business side hustle. Kyle’s full-time job is as a Mathematics Consultant to Kindergarten to Grade 12 teachers at his local school board; he teaches the Math teachers. 

Kyle is passionate about education and lucky for us, it spills into the investments arena; he loves to share his knowledge, and is always sharing his research with our community. I selfishly asked Kyle some questions on how to teach Math and Investing to kids.  

Now that I think of it, Kyle’s method of teaching compound interest, the 8th wonder of the world, would work on adults, too. So you want to have your pens and note-taking devices ready.

Please enjoy the show!

 

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show. I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and me.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and, more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future, knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you, too, are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so, but for now, we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel; we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you by www.stockhackeracademy.ca, where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle, as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full-time musician who just made a 50% return in 2021.  Past, of course, does not predict the future, but if you’d like a free demonstration, go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right and click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration, I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners, and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

 

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

 

Erwin  

Hello, welcome to the truth about real estate investing show. My name is Erwin Szeto. And it’s only two weeks until the wealth hacker conference. The timing couldn’t be better for an event like this on how we manage this upcoming economic storm, winter is here or it’s coming economically not the season. This is only the beginning. And we will be sharing at the conference how the world is changing newer investors plus entrepreneurs who are fearful as they should be. But like last time during the Great Recession, also known as the credit crisis was the last and best time to make a fortune and people did regret it to them by more. This cycle will likely be no different. So get your tickets to the wealth hacker conference November 12. At the Toronto Congress Centre near the airport for one day only event, wealth hacker.ca for tickets. Don’t forget the www www dot wealth hacker.ca. For tickets, buy discount code for you my favourite 17 listeners is the five letter word truth. Very easy to remember, hopefully, I’ve asked each of our expert speakers to include in their talks what they’re doing with their own hardware investment dollars. And when timing is pretty important these days. Me personally, I’ll be sharing how cheering I plan on dusting off an old strategy that’s fallen out of favour in the last couple of years, or dusting it off, as I believe the ideal investment property has changed in this current inflationary economy. And we plan on implementing the strategy once the conference is over. I’ll be sharing more detail about it at the conference. So hope to see you there Saturday November cloth all day for one day only wealth hacker.ca for information. Don’t forget the w’s WWW dot wealth hacker.ca. I trust everyone have a great week and weekend. As I’m recording. It just came off a short week. Thanks to Thanksgiving. My brother’s wedding was that weekend, I gave a talk to Elizabeth Kelly’s event as well. So kind of glad that weeks over. My brother’s wedding was delayed for two years thanks to the pandemic. But it finally happened and it was awesome. It was so great to see so many friends and family who hadn’t seen for quite some time, including a friend of mine, who is an RCMP officer. Let’s call him Dan. Dan was visiting from Alberta. He used to live and work in Toronto and still keeps his condo in town in Toronto about he rents out. I helped to convince him to keep the condo when he moved as a hedge just in case he ever wants to move back to Toronto and in case Prince prices ever went up. Be it’s a good thing he did. Because if he did ever want to move back, he wouldn’t be able to afford it. Hence, this hedge worked out. Yes, condo prices are down in Toronto, and pretty much every city where there is condos. Most of them are down through across the country. But understand if you look into the numbers more specifically, if when you really see real estate prices broken up by a category or kind of housing category, you’ll notice that counters for example, are down much less than say detached homes that sell for over one and a half million dollars. The Affordable I’m doing air quotes. For those who can’t see, the affordable. I think the better term is actually the least unaffordable. starter home market is still very much active since rents are so high along with interest rates. It’s natural for that demand for entry level real estate to increase. No different than how no name grocery store items like President’s choice and Kirkland are selling better than ever these days. Anyways, Dan shared with me how grateful he is for his investment property, as we discussed how the importance of intergenerational wealth is for homeownership. Basically, if you don’t have intergenerational wealth, if your parents don’t have wealth, then it’s gonna be very difficult to own a home and especially Ontario or BC, my friend Dan actually moved out to Alberta for affordability reasons, you know, his top salary basically is not that far off, whether he lives in Toronto or northern Alberta, where it’s like a third of the cost in terms of housing. I can’t agree more with with his opinion that intergenerational wealth is important. And this time, the time that we’re in right now, is probably the most important it’s been in the last 12 years to invest in oneself education and networking. I can’t recommend enough that folks join us on November 12 at the wealth hacker conference. Our last event changed so many people’s lives for the better, but we’re hoping to connect the returns for our attendees this year. on to this week’s show, tell peers who came to our conference as well. Back in 2019. He’s currently a real estate investor with 22 doors. Cal has been investing since the last recession being braver than the most. He bought the dip in Florida. He did research for a while but he pulled the trigger in 2011. He’s done quite well for himself. He’s a stock hacker and online education business side hustler. I just mentioned side hustle because Kyle does have a full time job as a mathematics consultant to kindergarten to grade 12 teachers at his local school board. Kyle is a teacher of math teachers.

 

Erwin  

Cal is passionate about education. As you can tell We’re lucky he’s for us that same passion for education spills over to the investments area. He loves to share his knowledge, his experience. He’s always sharing his research with our community at stock hacker Academy. And I selfishly had some questions for Kyle on how to teach math and investing to kids. Now that I think about it, Kyle’s method for teaching compound interest, which he shares, in the latter half of the show, compound interest, being the eighth wonder of the world, his methods would totally work on adults. So make sure you have your pens and pencils ready to take notes, please enjoy the show. Like if you call appears, Hi, Kyle, what’s keeping you busy these days,

 

Kyle  

but Well, everything is keeping me busy. We’re back to school. And I’m telling you, every single school year when we begin, I always, in my mind, have this, you know, picture that everything’s going to be great and calm and organised. And here we are, beginning of October. And as usual, it’s a bit of chaos. But it’s, it’s a fun cast. It’s nice to be back

 

Erwin  

at it. elementary, high school. What is well,

 

Kyle  

my background, I come from secondary. So I was a secondary math teacher for about a decade. And then I sort of moved into a coaching role. And now I’m a K through 12, consultant. So I sort of coordinate deliver professional learning for educators and everything in between. So lots of hats. They’re pretty busy. But I also get the pleasure of working with students and teachers today, for example, this afternoon, was in a class and got to hang out and do some awesome fun math talks with some grade nine students. So it was a great day.

 

Erwin  

Fun math talks is good. And we’re getting a minute just because we discussed some things off the air, I think we should share with the listener to 17 listeners, I’m sharing how am I experiences among my clientele. So I have 500 clients generally that are very comfortable with math. And I have some, of course, some hardcore analytical people like software engineers, architects, physicians, what I don’t notice among my clientele, what we don’t have is people like from the arts. And then I was thinking, my thought is that, you know, people who can do math can analyse investments. But even before that, they probably can think logically, we always have problems in front of us. You know, the big one right now is inflation and interest rates. But then how does one protect themselves from inflation? And then, like, our clients don’t come to us already interested in real estate, because they already have some understanding, I need a business I need I need some hard assets. So you’re, you’re kind of doing important work to produce more clients for me.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, well, it’s funny, because, you know, our I shouldn’t say funny, it’s not funny, because what you’ve sort of articulated is that mathematics, you know, this is why I love the work I do is that, you know, when I came out of my post secondary experience, well, actually, in post secondary, I was that kid who memorised everything through school, I didn’t really understand why a lot of things did what they did. I just knew, you know, I showed up, I did my cramming the night before. And I was able to recognise enough patterns to sort of get me through. So I was, quote, unquote, good at math. And in university, I was like, Well, I’m gonna do computer science and math, because I’m good at math. And in second year, I sorted the wheels, as I call it, I say, the wheels fell off for me. And what I recognised at that point, I had a professor point at me and say, You don’t know anything about math? So yeah, so that’s, you know, yeah, I

 

Erwin  

was fine. Today’s world. No, absolutely. And

 

Kyle  

you know, and honestly, at the time, I sort of shut it off as he’s just, you know, a jerk. And that was about it. But the reality is, is that, you know, 10 years later, as I’m in a high school math classroom, spinning my wheels, trying to help students understand math, you know, what I saw is exactly what you described, there was like a group of students who sort of it sort of seemed like, oh, like, they’re the math people. And then there was the other group of students oftentimes, like a larger group of students that weren’t math people. And that’s sort of like one, I guess, philosophy you could have, or one mindset that you can have is that, yes, some people are going to, you know, be more naturally inclined to enjoy mathematics and others won’t. But I sort of look at it as more of a nature nurture thing, where our job as educators, is to try to help more students feel comfortable and confident with mathematics. And, you know, that’s really the work that I do, I’m not doing this work to try to make, you know, those top achievers even better, you know, there are people that’s their passion, and they want to do that. And that’s great. I look at the completely other end of the spectrum. And I look at those students, because mathematics is such a gatekeeper. And you just articulated you said, a lot of your investor clients, people who are trying to build wealth for themselves, so they can take care of themselves, their families, leave a legacy. There are people who sort of, I’m gonna say, one at the game of mathematics, whether the instruction was you know, sound or not, they sort of were the lucky ones and I’m one of those people and I want to you know, offer that out. opportunity for more students. So yeah, that’s, that’s why I do the work and, and I think there’s so much more work to be done there. And that’s what keeps me you know, driven to continue this work.

 

Erwin  

I just like to add, I tend to skip steps and I leave out context and which is funny because I say context is everything these days. One doesn’t need to be good at math to become investor, like the step first is usually have a really good job. Right in order to qualify for mortgages?

 

Kyle  

And and how do you get a really good job, sadly, once again, you know, even if, you know, they, they say calculus, for example, is like a major gatekeeper because some of your top professions in order to get into those programmes, even though they’re not math heavy, they use calculus as sort of like a separator. So if you’re, you know, strong in calculus, you get into the programme over someone else who might be even stronger in the actual area that they’re trying to focus on. And they use that as sort of like the tiebreaker is like, oh, calculus, we’re going to take that person. And again, that’s a massive challenge. It’s a massive issue, when you know, you might be one of these people who, who sort of got left behind somewhere along the lines.

 

Erwin  

That’s a great point. You mean mentioned left behind because I have lots of clients who didn’t go to college or university, but they’re really smart. So I’m guessing they didn’t enjoy school, or they struggled at school, but they’re really smart. And they learned afterwards, like through application probably, life would have probably been easier if they enjoyed school and did well in school.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, well, you hear you know, so many people at stock hack or not stock hacker, but wealth hacker conference, you know, Grant Cardone who and Robert Kiyosaki, there’s so many people who are, let’s say, entrepreneurial, who, you know, didn’t maybe enjoy the game of school, but a lot of those people, those still had sort of this, you know, almost like a, like an intuition with numbers or with have or, you know, recognising patterns is probably a better way to say it. You know, pattern recognition is like one of the key, you know, differentiators between successful people. And folks who are less successful is if you can recognise patterns. So, you know, Grant Cardone says, hey, when I do this, this happens. I’m gonna keep doing that. What better place and mathematics class to give students that opportunity? So, you know, if there’s any math teachers listening, I would say, you know, reflect on your own classroom and think about like, are you giving students an opportunity to recognise patterns and behaviours of how the math works? Because that’s what really matters. In math class, it’s not necessarily remembering how to complete the square or Pythagoras theorem or any of these other things that we, you know, we tend to rote memorise, do these

 

Erwin  

kids understand the importance, like what’s on the low side, and like to understand, like, you need certain skills and tools in order to get a good job. Come on, investor is good, I haven’t lived.

 

Kyle  

You know what I think it’s hard to say, like, I think yes, but I think it’s also really hard to comprehend what that really means when you’re, you know, and I always reflect on my own experience, and, you know, I, my parents told me, you need to get a good job, you need to, you know, have education as as a means to help you get a good job. But the reality is, it’s, it’s sort of like, you know, you have to get out there, you have to experience what that looks like, and sounds like and again, certain students, I think, just have this advantage of like, I just kind of followed the motions, like, I didn’t work necessarily harder than a student who didn’t maybe go on to some sort of post secondary, but I was lucky enough, I suppose that, you know, I, I was able to get through and sort of jump those hoops to get me far enough. And, and I think that’s a major challenge that we’re up against, because I don’t think it’s getting easier for anybody once you get out of school these days. And I think about your kids, my kids, anyone else who has young children, like who knows what that’s gonna look like down the road?

 

Erwin  

It’ll be impossible buy a house, but getting a job these days is great. Yeah, exactly. So the best job market,

 

Kyle  

I go straight into the service industry, you know, it seems like I’m looking at the tips. You know, when I go to dinner, I’m like, Oh, holy smokes, you know, how much money do we spend on dinner? And then you’re like, I gotta leave a tip on that. Oh, my gosh, and I’m thinking to myself, I’m like, What am I doing here? I should know I should be serving these tables. So that’ll be where I’m sending them 18%

 

Erwin  

The first option

 

Kyle  

and they already added the gratuity on there how convenient and I didn’t

 

Erwin  

tax to There you go, rarely pay plenty of sales tax to so called easiest way for me ask this question as you have kids, eight and 10 eight and 10 Yet even 10. What are you teaching them so supposed to be a real estate show? Are you teaching them anything around real estate and stocks anything like that?

 

Kyle  

I would say definitely not really not a whole lot with stocks. I know my son is a big Roblox fan. So you know once in a while, I would pull up the Roblox chart and you know, we chat about it just very informally, I’m very, my approach for mathematics, at least initially, is trying to allow them to explore and inquire and investigate before sort of getting into, you know, the nuts and bolts of things and let them ask questions kind of follow their lead a little bit. More or less, I think I talk more about real estate with, with the kids and, you know, I try to be open and honest with them about how much things cost. And, you know, we describe things like, you know, how much like rent would be our children are shocked when they, you know, they think Holy smokes, you know, like, $50 is a lot to them. So, you know, when they think like, every month, someone has to pay, you know, you know, $1,500, or $2,000, just to live somewhere. And, you know, so we discuss those things, and I’m really looking forward to, when they get to that age where I can, you know, sort of have them hop in the back and, you know, head out and kind of get in there and get their hands dirty. So that’s something that I’m hoping to do. But I’m also trying to balance that with maybe not forced feeding it on them at the same time, because I do want them to, you know, actually enjoy it through the process.

 

Erwin  

I’m totally different. You years ago, I was already bringing my kids for, I bring them for tenant showings for Renovation Inspections. And even when we sign the tenant, couple of reasons why I want my child to be there. So then the other family knows that I’m a parent, too. Right? I’m not just this evil landlord trying to collect my 1500 $2,000 a month, you know, I have a family to you know, you don’t pay rent. I can’t afford this, either. And I think that’s basically yeah. And then that’s math, I think you can some people miss out that, you know, we need to collect rent in order to cover these massive mortgages that are inflating with interest rates. That’s often Yeah, it’s often seems to be lost in the tenant world.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, for sure. And honestly, like, children learn best through observation, right. And again, you know, we talked about patterns earlier, right? They earlier they start seeing things and observing things. And then, you know, they start to recognise patterns, and they start to see different Oh, like, you know, looking around and seeing, like, Oh, my goodness, you know, a lot of the places that we’re renting are a lot smaller than the place that we’re living in. And, you know, understanding that it doesn’t always look exactly the way you know, your world is to you when you’re growing up. And I think that’s a huge lesson for them. So maybe I gotta get them in the car a little earlier here following your footprints,

 

Erwin  

I have no idea from what I’m doing is right, actually got some flack over an email that I sent out and about? I shouldn’t be asking, What am I teaching kids, my kids about real estate, that lady was saying, but you should let your kids explore on their own and when they’re old enough to figure out what business they’re interested in. But I’m like, how will they know what businesses are interested in? If they have no exposure to business?

 

Kyle  

It’s the same quite I have the same discussion with sports, for example, you know, a lot of people say like, ah, you know, my kids don’t want to play X, Y, or Zed. And I started to say, like, how do they know, you know, like, without sort of trying and, you know, at least giving it a shot. And sometimes, you know, you learn to love something once you do it. And, you know, I always say, if your son or daughter or child doesn’t like school, are you just gonna say okay, no, you know, don’t do that either. Right? It might not be what you love doing right now. But I mean, I think one of our jobs as parents is to at least give them exposure, and but then trying to find that centre, right? It’s really hard, like humans are very off people, like we’re all in, we’re all out, we’re, you know, totally right, totally left, or, you know, it’s very difficult to get to that balance. So, just kind of keeping that in mind, I think helps us, at least not overdo anything, like, Hey, we’re gonna try all the sports and you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna be on all the rep teams or you know, whatever that might mean, but to give them enough exposure, so then they can, you know, they can get that experience under their

 

Erwin  

belt. So call your smart guy. Well, right. How much

 

Kyle  

should I pay you to say that I keep going? No, I’m just getting,

 

Erwin  

why do you invest in real estate? Because I always have, I’m always concerned with confirmation bias. Right. And so I want to ask, you know, you seem bright. You’re responsible for our future, the future of the world, educating educators to educate children and educating children. Why do you invest in real estate, even monster pension down the road, don’t you? They’ll take care of everything.

 

Kyle  

Yeah. You know what, it’s interesting, because like, I have done so much growing like, obviously, when people are listening to this podcast, they’re probably very similar to us. And they realise that, you know, you’re constantly learning what you think, you know, today is probably not the whole story and all of those things. When I came into teaching, you know, my wife, my now wife, she was my girlfriend at the time. You know, we were both in teachers college together. And, you know, we were working jobs and all these things, and we were like savers. Like I was very saved minded. You know, we’re gonna get House at some point down the road, we’re gonna keep saving, saving. So we eventually got a house. And then it was like pay down that mortgage like that that typical, you know, do the right thing just like mom and dad says it’s like pay down that mortgage. So I was doing that. And then I ran into the whole idea of like the Robert Kiyosaki, you know, movement of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and this was back in, you know, the late, I don’t know, maybe 2009 2010, just after the boom, time. Yeah, very, very interesting time. And, you know, in my mind, seeing the market, the stock market crash and having a very little amount of money in my RSP. At the time, it was probably like, $10,000, or whatever it was seeing that, you know, basically go down by a third or, you know, you know, almost half, I was like, Whoa, I don’t like that. And I had no idea what was going on there. But one thing that I did start recognising was this idea that wow, at least with real estate, you know, historically, it has, you know, done well over time, not that it’s always straight up. But then the other thing was, I just loved the idea, like the tangible like how I could, I could go in like, I’m like, even if this is worth nothing, I could still rent it. And I could still go touch it, you know, like, I could physically touch it. Whereas with stocks, bonds, any other type of paper asset, I didn’t like the idea that it was it felt fictitious to me, you know, and I’m sure we could go down the Fiat path if we really wanted to, but, you know, this idea that I’m like, What the heck are we buying here, and that’s what got me into it. So I really lucked out with timing there that I got interested. And then I spent, you know, a good, probably too many years, researching, and then going to the States and researching there. And that’s where we picked up our first rental property was down in the US. So glad we did it, and we’re still doing it. And to me, it’s like the easiest sell on an investment to feel safe, that it’s not just going to disappear on you. And that, you know, you can count on it to to continually make money over time. All right. And you live in Windsor, right? Yeah, just outside of Windsor. I’m in Bel river Ontario. So just kind of a little suburb of Windsor, you know, 30 minutes from downtown type thing and way down the 401 to the end of the line.

 

Erwin  

And you chose to invest in the states and stuff like Windsor? Yeah, well,

 

Kyle  

at the time, you know, I’ll tell you, I was also you know, and this is interesting, I haven’t thought about this in a long time. But my thought initially was, hey, let’s get a let’s get a like a vacation home. You know, that was my thought. Let’s get a vacation home in Florida. So we were looking in Florida prices were cheap. And you know, that was my big thing. And my wife who is not into investing, she wants nothing to do with any of this stuff. She’s like, you go, do you. I’m in full support, I trust everything you do, which is great. But also scary at the same time. She said to me one day, she’s like, why don’t we just get a rental property, and then use the money from that to go vacation wherever we want. And I was like, that’s actually a great idea. So we’ll just rent it full time and go from there. So we had picked up a place in in Fort Myers. And that was our first used a home equity line of credit. And, you know, basically paid all cash for it. And you know, I was like, we’re just going to chip away at this now. You know, I was paying down our mortgage. Now we’re going to chip away at this one. And that was our entrance to the market scary. Everyone thought we were crazy. And down the road. Turns out it it worked out. Okay, maybe maybe it won’t always work out. Okay. But for us anyway, it was, it was definitely a good entrance into the market. Do you still have it? We actually sold the Florida place the year before we built the house we’re living in now. So now, you know, like always, I always say that in real estate investors, you know, regret selling any property. And that continues to be true for me every property we ever sell. We’re like, Ah, why did we do that. But we did sell it as more security to make sure you know, we had enough cash to build this property. You know, we had, we had a lot going on at the time. So we had sold there took a you know, a really nice profit over there. And again, little bit of regret, but also I felt like the cost was getting high. We had condo fees I had I had gotten super safe when we purchased and bought in a gated community. My thought was, you know, I was sort of scared to buy anything that was more, I would say more reasonable for a rental and I bought something a little more high end, which still worked out. But now knowing what I know, I would have never done that I would have bought a property that you know, just cash flowed as much as possible. So, you know, it was sort of one of those repositioning of, of the asset or the equity anyway.

 

Erwin  

Not the worst idea, but can you share numbers because you’ve probably got this thing for a song.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, that that property well and for me to like You know, I think back to and I’m like, What the heck was I thinking at the time? Like, I wish I knew what I knew now, because I would have backed up the truck bought. Exactly, you know, like, how much can I get, but back then this particular property it was going for like over 300, before the crash in 2008. Nine, and we picked it up in 2011, I believe it was 495. So that was and that was in a gated community,

 

Erwin  

how many square feet, how many bedrooms and bathrooms, it was

 

Kyle  

about 1800 square feet high. It was a coach home. So you know, sort of like a like, like semi detached, but you know, had condo fees. So you know, none of the landscaping you had to do is it was actually a really beautiful spots, you know, ponds in there and all kinds of wonderful stuff. And then we ended up selling it in 2015. So, less than five years later for about, I believe the number was like one ad. And now had we hung on to it, it would be worth a whole lot more. So there’s a little bit of remorse there. But again, half the time it helps us sleep at night as we you know, as we were building our forever home, we proudly call it here

 

Erwin  

in Belle river. So, right. And the idea how it fared in the hurricane. That honestly,

 

Kyle  

when I saw some of the photos, I don’t and I was like, Ooh, maybe maybe it wasn’t such a bad idea. I don’t know.

 

Erwin  

Yeah, that’s honestly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So

 

Kyle  

we are, you know, we are out in Florida, my parents actually live, they had a condo on the other side, they had purchased a couple years after I did down there to have like, as a, you know, as a snowbird place, they had picked up their place for 38,000. And they just sold at the beginning of this year, I’m not going to share just because I don’t know, if they, you know, I don’t know if they’d be comfortable with that. But anyway, let’s just say they did a lot better in terms of a percentage return. And then with all these floods and everything like that, I mean, they’re I don’t think their area got affected. But I think for them, it’s like, that’s why they got rid of it. They’re getting older, and they just wanted it to be off, you know, off their minds and not a worry. So I think they’re happy about

 

Erwin  

  1. It’s where they’re gonna do rent in Florida?

Kyle  

Well, that’s it, yeah, they’re kind of, I think they’re kind of using my wife’s mentality of, well, let’s just go anywhere, you know, like, let’s just see where, you know, see where the, you know, the opportunity brings us so they’re going to spend a couple of weeks in Florida next year, that’s the plan and, you know, do it any trip they want. They’re, they’re going to be leaving for Iceland soon. So they’re very active, you know, I should also reference, like, their mindset is what makes me who I am, as an investor, they weren’t investing like I am in terms of the, the assets, like in terms of real estate or anything like that, but my parents were very, they were savers. They both retired early, but, you know, still kind of pinching pennies in order to do it. But like, it’s like, that was their lifestyle. And they, you know, they both retired very early, and are still doing just fine. Because they they just got, you know, they’ve got their cash flow in order. And, you know, they’re, they’re loving life live in it to the best of

 

Erwin  

  1. Amazing. So we have, I don’t know, right or wrong, I have like, the opposite mentality and trying to make a lot of money, so I don’t have to worry about money.

Kyle  

Totally. And, yeah, and they don’t worry about money, which is great. But I’m like, I have this other thing, like, you know, you and I sort of connect on that level. Like, I enjoy the work too. That’s obviously important as well, but I’m also like, I would never do what, what they did, I don’t think like I think I’d be too worried about it. I’m very, you know, it’s almost like overcautious, like I want to make sure I don’t ever get in a position where I’m going Holy smokes, you know, shouldn’t have done that. But, you know, they had their, you know, budget in order and you know, they’ve they’ve lived very modestly, I’ll call it but they’ve still done a lot like they golf, they travel they do all of those things. But you know, they don’t buy brand new cars, they don’t buy the best of this or the best of that. They just, they just know what they want. And, and I think that’s awesome. It’s it’s a great, you know, great way to live for sure. Sounds like The Millionaire Next Door. The book. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

 

Erwin  

I actually actually had to google how old that book is. I think it’s 30 years old now somewhere around it. Insane. And it hasn’t changed. Right. And in my experience, same mentality. Yeah. In my experience, the the rich people in that book are exactly my clients, and so sound a lot like your parents except their investors. They don’t buy new cars, if they do their mid level, right? They don’t buy brand name clothing, and anyone who does that are at a really high level. Right? Right. I do have a client with a Cadillac version. Apple makes a lot of money.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, my parents I would say are like, honestly, they followed what the traditional mindset has been, which I think is, like, if people do that, they will be like, they will live a great life and they’ll be financially. Okay. And my parents did that. So they were like, Nope, we, you know, we do a lot of saving, you know, my mom cut the coupons for the grocery like and save money wherever they could they put into their, you know, their RRSPs, and all of those things. And they go to the, you know, the big bank and say, Hey, here’s the money I’m putting in every year, put it in all these mutual funds. So they did all of those things. And they, you know, it was almost like, they didn’t have to think about it. And I think they enjoy that. I’m the opposite, where I’m like, Ah, no. Mutual Fund. I don’t know about that. But makes sense to me. Yeah, they’re just like, they’re like a hands off. And I get that from like, a property management perspective, like, where there’s certain things I don’t want to do. And it costs money for those things to happen. So I’m like, I guess if you have no interest in, you know, in what the markets doing, or why it’s happening, I could see how that might make sense, you know, but, but for me, not so much. So

 

Erwin  

you bring up a lot of great points that I’m interested in digging into. So for for move on from your Florida property, like you bought at like a really scary time.

 

Kyle  

scary time for a first investment. Yes, absolutely.

 

Erwin  

Did you you understood what the environment was that you’re buying into? Right?

 

Kyle  

I absolutely did. And like I said, I, my thought was, and I think that’s why I had this vacation property idea in the back of my mind was sort of, like if we pick up property, and it doesn’t work out as an investment property. We have a vacation home, you know, so that was sort of, I think, what drove me towards the property we selected, so I

 

Erwin  

was you live in it? Yeah, I

 

Kyle  

was like, you know, what, okay, so, you know, we we own this property, and, you know, hey, like, I mean, we bought it for the price of, you know, like, really well loaded car nowadays, you know, so it was like, you know, I was like that was my, probably like save face plan, you know, so it was like, oh, we’ll just hang on to it. And that’s the way it’s going to be. So it was scary. But at the same time, like I said, I’m like, I wanted to know that there was a physical thing, like I could go to that place and be like, that’s mine. And that at least made me feel better about things. And then we just made sure it could cash flow. It wasn’t like a massive cash flow generator. I was more thinking appreciation play at the time, which I think a lot of people, you know, sometimes maybe get too far into that. We barely cash flowed. And I was like, my backup was vacation home. So it was a good entry for me. And I would encourage those who are listening, don’t like just find something that’s going to sit well with you. It doesn’t have to necessarily be the best property. Right? There’s always a better opportunity out there. But maybe it’s not the right opportunity for you to get in on your first time.

 

Erwin  

That’s a great comment make. I find too many people are chasing unicorns, and then they don’t get anything done. And the market just keeps going, keeps going the way it wherever it’s going. And generally over the long trend. It’s gone. It’s definitely gone up. Yep. Yep, totally. I invested it back to 2008 2009. I want to hear your experience. How was it hard to rent? Because, you know, it was the great recession? Yeah, yeah. He’s barely felt it. But it was, it’s called the Great Recession or the credit crisis.

 

Kyle  

Yeah. And actually, I want to say I can’t remember which episode it was, but I was listening to one of the episodes recently, and I feel like this came up, where you were just sharing about this idea that when people aren’t buying homes or when they can’t afford homes, they have to rent so it was I didn’t realise that at the time. Like I would love to say like I had it all planned, you know, but there were so many people unfortunately like I’m not I’m not wishing this on anyone. But I had no idea at the time that there were so many people that were holding so many homes as an appreciation play that lost homes speculators there was speculating but then there was so many people that lost their their primary residence and required a place to live. So you know, it wasn’t like the recession caused rent to go away or people to go away it was like they still needed a place to live. So that worked out fine for us. Like we never had an issue my realtor down there like this is where you know, having a great realtor I know your team is very highly regarded having a great realtor is so important especially if it is out of you know out of town out of state out of province wherever the realtor was awesome was like my essentially like a property manager and getting it rented and then here’s the handyman and we’d let the handyman essentially manage everything and you know, I just trusted that that handyman and it was super smooth.

 

Erwin  

Yeah, me people are worth their weight in gold. Absolutely. They’re often my eyes and ears on them. Property? Absolutely. Yeah. So check on my other contractors if I had landscapers doing the job or whatnot, if the roofer did the right job.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, eyes and ears, for sure,

 

Erwin  

absolutely need boots on ground because you can’t be there that often. So I don’t know what to ask next. Because there’s so many things I want to ask, like, for example, do you see any parallels between those times in terms of the economy compared to like, these times? Should we be as fearful as the Great Recession?

 

Kyle  

Well, you know, what, honestly, I wouldn’t necessarily be jumping into deals I get, you know, I picked up a flip off of a guy who, you know, was sort of a last minute thing wanted private money, and I sort of arranged it, you know, one thing I will say is, over this decade or so, is I’ve realised how important it is to be creative. And, you know, this person wanted private money and given the market, given the uncertainty again, I’m still worst case scenario, if you have to hang on to a property, you know, and it’s not the end of the world, it might not, you know, be amazing upfront, but, you know, he wanted to pay 10 12% interest for X amount of dollars. And I said, Well, why don’t we do this, we’ll put it in my name. And, you know, you’ll be sort of like the partner here. And, you know, we’ll we’ll split some profits afterwards with some conditions on it. So you know, if you know, if it doesn’t sell after X number of days, then you know, basically like you’re gonna walk type thing so I’m not diving into deals just to get into them. But I’m trying to be creative. I think sellers here in Windsor are still I you know, in Toronto, I think it’s hits you a little earlier than it did in Windsor. But like the out of town investors in Windsor, like gone, they’re not around anymore. They were one of the main reasons why everything sort of like, you know, popped up around in Essex County here and

 

Erwin  

there for listeners benefit Windsor, a lot of these cities just outside the GTA like Oshawa, Windsor, London, Hamilton, they all went, they all boomed during the pandemic during the two years of the pandemic. And now they’ve they’ve also fallen the most, at least, that’s what I’m hearing from my friends Windsor, that it’s fallen quite, quite hard, and a bit more than surrounding areas, probably because I was driven up by investors.

 

Kyle  

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. And honestly, I think we’re in a place where it’s, we’re in a really crappy mode right now, because I think sellers still think that they can get, you know, bidding wars. So they’re not like really being flexible or realistic. Like they, you know, they’re not, they’re not looking at data, right. They’re just like, I want to sell my house, and I want to get as much money as my neighbour did nine months ago. Right? And so they’re sort of like, you know, hanging on and realtors are saying this thing, but the seller thinks, well, the realtor just just wants me to sell the house quickly. So they, you know, so there’s kind of like this mismatch, but then when you go in, it’s like, the buyers, especially investors, investors are coming in sort of going like, No, we’re not, you know, we’re not going to pay that. Yeah, you know, that’s, that’s not going to happen. And I’m sort of that guy, so I’m trying to be more creative with deals working with sellers, so that, you know, there is benefit for them at the same time. And so they don’t feel, let’s say, robbed, because I mean, really, like the market has robbed them of the opportunity to sell at the peak, like everyone else did nine months ago. Right?

 

Erwin  

What do you see in the stock market? For me,

 

Kyle  

the stock market? I think something that’s really interesting is that I mean, the stock market obviously exploded ballooned way, like, you know, some are calling it like, the biggest bubble ever, you know, so if you’re thinking 2008 was bad, or, you know, 2099 2000 was bad, like, some are calling it like, even worse than that, you know, you can decide what you’d like. But when you look at the data, and you start actually, like, looking at all the different factors, right, so like the Fed is raising rates, obviously, you know, Canada’s our bank is is going to be, you know, taking moves from from the US as well,

 

Erwin  

they have to do to keep our currency higher, right,

 

Kyle  

quantitative easing has ended, and we’re supposed to have started tightening, but we actually really have

 

Erwin  

a fine line. There’s been no tightening.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, like when you do those things, and like inflation still high, a lot of it is sort of like it, you know, it’s trailing data, like an education like we use EQAO to, it’s trailing data. It’s like different sets of kids that you’re using to try to figure out where to go next. It’s the same thing happening here, you’re using inflation, which is trailing data. So by the time the Fed is smart enough to sort of like realise that hey, maybe things aren’t, you know, going to continue exploding like they they have a mandate to make it look like they’re doing the right thing. They’re just like crushing markets and obviously real estate’s you know, a little bit lagged behind the stock market so that you know, where are we going? I personally don’t think we’re at a bottom and then based on you know, I look at hedgeye hedgeye is is such a, like macro, focused, macro centric resource and I love it It basically like they’re looking at like, not until like, mid next year, at least for us to start looking back at, hey, you know, actual growth might start happening again, the economy is, you know, contracting. So like if our GDP growth is is actually like negative while we’re raising rates, while we’re supposed to be taking money away from the, the economy, like those things are not a good mix. And it’s going to be really difficult for someone to say, you know, I think you know, X, Y, or Z stock is going to hit the moon might be the short term, like fair bounces or it’s just a little relief rally. And it’s like, a lot of times too, it’s like a bunch of shorts closing their lungs or a bunch of shorts closing them, which means they’re buying by and that looks take off on a day right? So you know, I I’m sort of, I’m doing like very cautious bear call spreads. And that’s about it. Like I’m not getting crazy with it either. Because, you know, you could be wrong, but I don’t foresee us you know, getting to new all time highs for quite some time.

 

Erwin  

Yeah, I might plan to sell more bear call spreads when on the good pop. And I don’t think we’re there yet. Yeah, yeah, I missed the last pop. Dammit.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, you know, what, I actually, I tried to do a little bit like, I’m trying to be more, you know, I don’t want to get too excited. So I do little bits here, little bits there. But you know, when it starts running on you, I’m telling you, all of a sudden, like your brain start saying like, what if? What if this? What if that? What if this and then when it rips back down? You go, Oh, thank goodness, but then the next time it happens, again, you go, maybe it’s this time that I’m wrong? You know, and, and it can be quite scary for for a period of time.

 

Erwin  

trend is your friend till the end? Absolutely. Just the trend happens to be bearish. Yeah, exactly. Any favourite stocks that you sell their causal spreads on like QQ or Tesla, or any other space with Garbers arc?

 

Kyle  

It kind of depends, but anything, honestly. And again, this has kind of taken like the, you know, the hedgeye approach is like, anything that’s growth is probably okay, now, the one I guess, challenge you have is that sometimes, you know, you get the mean stock craze, or you get, you know, people that are just squeezing that can be really, really scary. So picking like, kind of like boring growth stocks can be really helpful, you know, picking the rustle, for example, like and using that, because like the queues, I mean, apples going to, you know, get a couple good days for Fang and you know, your cues are going to be upside down, right, even though there’s a lot of other growth names in there. So, you know, just not getting too crazy on any one thing recently, like hedgeye was saying, you know, they were looking at, there was like, A, the ticker chef, so I’m trying to remember is that tattoo chef, there it is. Yeah, that’s the one. You know,

 

Erwin  

they stopped. Yeah,

 

Kyle  

they threw that out there. And they just said, like, you know, what are you not going to do during a recession is pay that company, you know, so it’s like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So, you know, you kind of look at that, and then you kind of look around those things. But, but ultimately, it’s like, yeah, looking for a little bit of green on certain things. And, and still being I think conservative is probably smart. Like you don’t want to, you know, go too close to the money or you can get taken out over the ropes pretty quick if things run for too long. Alright, at too high. Okay, so

 

Erwin  

quick disclaimer to the last 17 listeners. None of this is a financial advice, folks. And also, we’re talking bare stuff we’re shorting as in we’re making bets that profit when stocks either go down or at least neutral. You know, it’s funny, because early pandemic, I thought peloton would be would be toast. It’s like, who’s gonna pay for $1,000 bike with a monthly subscription? And we’re heading towards recession. Well, I call this pandemic right, if that thing’s wrong, yeah, that was the end of the world. Why was I wrong on that one? At least I did plenty of money in the way of it.

 

Kyle  

Well, if you remember 2018, that was supposed to be that was supposed to be a recession, right? And then what did we do? We printed money and then COVID happened and that was supposed to be a recession? And then what did we do? printed money, printed money and then we printed more money and then more money again? And you know, basically like, it’s like, I wonder I’m not I’m not gonna make a claim here. But I’m definitely wondering, like a lot of people are waiting for this fed pivot to happen but with inflation where it is their mindset and with job like with, you know, the whole jobs numbers the way they’ve have been positive mixed numbers. Yeah, it makes it really hard for them to pivot, right? Like they’re like, Oh, we’re gonna start pivoting now when inflation is high, and like job numbers haven’t, you know, been crushed yet. So I think they’re going to do a lot of damage. And then by the time the numbers change, it’s we’re going to be in a, you know, a bit of a world of hurt. And then also think about mortgages too, you know, when the interest rates go up Sure, houses like people might buy less homes. But what happens when your mortgage, your five year fixed is now due next month? Or the next, you know, however many people it’s due next spring, or you know, these are people that haven’t necessarily they’re coming out of these fixes that are 2%, or, you know, even sub 2%. And then all of a sudden, it’s like, they’re in a completely different world. What does that look like and sound like, Oh, and one of the spouses lost the job. So they’re not willing to, you know, re amortise or, you know, do anything. So, who knows? I hope not. I hope that things turn around before them. But I mean, there’s a lot of, you know, let’s just say that the the cards aren’t stacked in our favour right now.

 

Erwin  

Definitely, definitely headwinds. I’m speaking to a lawyer that works with a lot of real estate investors and transactions have slowed. He was actually saying that he’s doing a lot of private mortgages. I think people are trying to shore up their positions via private because they can’t whatever. It’s a crazy world out there. Yeah, for sure. Can you tell us about this, these other side? hustles. You have? Like I was looking at your website? I don’t you have enough work to do you have two young kids?

 

Kyle  

Yeah, my wife says all the time, Chantel she says that she’s like, You have too many ideas for one brain. And honestly, she’s right. I am like a learner only. I only like learning about things I want to learn about or am interested in. Like I said, I’m extremely passionate about the work I do in mathematics. And you know, that’s one of the things that myself in a good friend and colleague, John or we have a website called make math moments.com actually a podcast, just like you have I think we only have 16. Listeners, though. Oh, I think you are ahead. No clips me soon. Yeah, I’m hoping I’m hoping anyway. But yeah, that’s the making math moments that matter podcast, and, you know, we do a bunch of PD for teachers and try to make it as accessible as possible. We actually have a virtual summit we do once a year that’s coming up in November, and we usually have about, you know, on average, 10,000 educators from around the world who participate? And yeah, we just, we want to, I guess, share the math love and, and give educators who don’t necessarily have the opportunity to do the the learning, you know, the opportunity to to see that maybe math can look a little different for for students, then maybe we remember from math class,

 

Erwin  

how can parents make math look different for their own families?

 

Kyle  

Um, honestly, I think one of the easiest shifts you can do as a parent is ask more questions and tell less, you know, so I see people often rush to save kids. And we do it in education, too, like teachers do it all the time. But it’s like, just just ask them. And sometimes it will take them a long time, and maybe they won’t come up with the answer right away. And that’s okay, too. But when we rushed to tell them the answer, they haven’t learned anything. Right, they got an answer, but they haven’t learned what you’re asking them. So if you frame the question in a way, where, you know, you’re giving them enough information, and you’re not making it ridiculous, like asking them for the second derivative of you know, some expression is probably not a good idea. But you know, things like counting, adding, multiplying, you know, anything like that. You can get kids to solve proportions, if you frame the question in a way that’s accessible, especially if you have items or if you draw a model for them to, you know, sort of look at kids are very intuitive. And they have strategies, you know, that they can apply. So that’d be my number one is, say less, ask more.

 

Erwin  

So we’ve been very public about Jerry and I, we cancelled the Kumon for the kids. Tell me more. It was the biggest source of frustration within our household, us arguing with the kids, we’d have to sit with them to get it done. Even then they told it a thumbs couldn’t motivate them to do it. So both English and math, the only time they were fine, were when they were in front of the tutor. The rest of the time when they’re when the tutor wasn’t in front of them. They struggled to get anything done to be motivated. So yeah, and it’s also $500 a month, why would I pay $500? a month for grief?

 

Kyle  

Yeah, no, totally. And honestly, you said it earlier, you were talking about how context is everything. And it’s true in math as well. And I find a lot of times what we do, and I don’t want to speak about that particular organisation, but a lot of times we try to I call them naked problems. We try to get kids to do naked problems, which are meaningless to them. So like kids are just trying to understand what

 

Erwin  

your context listener, there’s just like small sheets of paper with math problems. Right? And

 

Kyle  

it’s not really like sheer numbers. Yeah, probably like whatever plus whatever, whatever times whatever, you know, whatever it is, but it’s like if you just take one or two, or however many of those problems and if you add context to it, it now is something the student like that your child can now relate to in the real world. And that can help them to drive, you know, to drive a strategy that they might use when you know when a kid comes to you. And this, this is very apparent when it comes to you and say, Hey, we’re doing 24 with the two dots and the line, and this number like that tells you they have no idea what the heck’s going on. Right? And if that’s the case, then what are we trying to do here? So it’s not about memorising, multiplication facts, or division facts, it’s about engaging with the mathematics in a meaningful way. So that hopefully becomes automatic. Like, I don’t want to memorise it like a phone number, I want to be able to go Oh, like when this happens, that happens. And some of those things will just, you know, be easy to recall. And others might require a strategy. So that that’s the kind of mathematics work that, that I’m really into and, and trying to make it accessible for students to kind of meet them where they are, and nudge them along. So when students are frustrated, they usually don’t either don’t understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. Maybe it’s not even appropriate for where they are, like, they might not have the strategies or the methods to, you know, to do what they’re doing. Or, you know, it’s just contextless. Like, there’s nothing. What do I relate this to?

 

Erwin  

Right? Yeah, my kids, they could do it, if they put in the effort, but they have no interest in doing it. Versus when when I give them like a money exercise, for example, we pay our kids to do things around around the office. Really? Yeah, we haven’t paid the kids for any chores or anything. But when we ask them to do work, for example, and then we’ll ask them, like, they’ll say they want something. So they want to buy something. Say it says lunch, like lunch is 20 bucks, for example. And then I say, well, we paid you $5 to shovel the driveway. How many times have to shovel the driveway for lunch? That’s exactly right. And they’re like, Oh, it’s a lot of money. Right? Yeah, totally. Daddy paid for it, not you.

 

Kyle  

That’s exactly and I’m telling you what you just did. That is that is the key to it. And, and you could do that in the car, you know, you could skip count with your kids, like just randomly, like my kids, when they were younger, would like be all into that. Now they’re too cool for that. So that, you know, that’s harder, but like doing little things when it comes up. So for example, you know, what you just reminded me of is, you know, usually on like, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, we like cook breakfast, the kids love, you know, helping and making it and it’s like, you know, we’re cooking bacon, and there’s, you know, whatever it was nine strips of bacon. And there’s four of us. And like, I love this opportunity, right? Because like I’m looking at it as a math teacher going like, okay, so, like, how many do we get? Like, initially, you know, the kids will say, Yeah, you know, about, you know, about two each and it’s like, okay, about two each great. Okay, so I’ll have the extra strip, and then they’re like, oh, no, I want the extra strip. And no mom wants the extra strip. Now the question is, so what do we do with the extra strip? And I mean, it’s it’s intuitive, like the kids that are like, Okay, well, there was two for you and two for you and two for you and two for you. And now there’s this one extra strip. What do I do? Well, try cutting it up. So they cut it in half. And it’s like, is that enough? No. Okay, what do we have to Oh, okay. So what do we call that? That’s fourths? Okay, great. Now, it’s like so how many pieces? Did everyone get two and a fourth pieces of bacon? Wow, nine fourths is the same as everyone getting two and a fourth. That is pretty cool. Like, we can do this stuff. Like you have to think about it a little more. I have an advantage because I’m a math teacher. And you know, I think about this stuff all the time. But there’s so many opportunities where instead of me saying let me cut the bacon. Right? You just let them do it. Now your bacon is cold by the time you get it. But at the same time you you’re you’re helping your kids.

 

Erwin  

Interesting. Anyway, try and math. Sorry, am I trying to das math when he told us problems? Contextual problems? Yeah, like contextual for sure. Okay. Anyway, try that next because we have a Tesla. So they say, Oh, well, you put too much mileage on the Tesla like we’ll go on to pay for gas and like the van never pay for gas in the van. So I posted some questions and Tao leave a referral for me for someone who does English. That was like you. Yeah, no, I

 

Kyle  

got none.

 

Erwin  

Nothing. Yeah, you’re saying are you that? You’re 30 Did I hear that wrong? What

 

Kyle  

did you ask? You say?

 

Erwin  

Is there a cow pierce that teaches English teachers?

 

Kyle  

Oh, yeah. No, actually, there probably is. I’m just probably not the person to help you find them. Actually. My sister she’s, she’s an IB English teacher. So

 

Erwin  

there you go. Okay, okay. Maybe maybe because you know, math and English. My point is the point while we put the kids the goal with the putting the kids in the Kumaon was we wanted them to be enjoy school, be good at school, and hopefully they did enjoy it. And then hopefully they stick with it.

 

Kyle  

That is so true. Like, I mean, it is very, and I think this happens in everything and you see it in again, I use sports as a context, because it’s like more, I think more visible to the parent, because they’re like a part of it, whereas they’re not necessarily at school with with their, their child. But like in sports, it’s, it takes a bit of both, like they have to kind of like it, but they might not necessarily love it initially. So they have to get in there. But they also have to have some success, because without success, then you’re not going to like it, like nobody likes doing something that they’re not good at. So what do you do if they’re struggling in a sport? Well, I mean, if you think it’s a worthwhile thing to do, then maybe you go out and you play, catch, you know, to help them catch the ball and throw the ball around, or whatever, whatever the sport might be. Or maybe you sign them up for like a skills camp that might help them see or feel that, you know, success sooner. And that can help motivate them. So the same is true for young children. If, you know, if a young child is in school, and, you know, they’re feeling like, you know, they aren’t understanding or they’re not, you know, feeling successful in math or whatever the subject might be, that’s not going to be good in the long run. Right. And oftentimes, that gap gets bigger. And then obviously, the the, you know, the distaste or the dislike for it gets larger as well. So it’s a really important thing to kind of be in tune and, you know, even asking teachers to you read a report card, what does that say that, you know, oftentimes, it’s very cryptic, you just have to ask, like, hey, like, where are we at? And, you know, what can I do to help support them? And if you do, you know, you’re gonna put yourself and your child in a much better spot.

 

Erwin  

So Kyle, any contextual math problems around real estate, we could ask your kids? Oh, I

 

Kyle  

like it. I like it.

 

Erwin  

I definitely throw what age do you think it’s appropriate? Yeah, well,

 

Kyle  

that’s a great one. I mean, there’s so much fun to be done. Like with compound interest, as you know, like that’s, that’s, that’s amazing. And actually, I’m gonna give you the here’s the one thing I’m going to give you that I think is great, but it will make you go poor. And I can show you the spreadsheet to prove it is with my my children, what we would do is we would give them their allowance each week, which was their age, or not each, yes, each week each week. So let’s pretend you know, Talia is 10. And she is so we’re not pretending she’s 10. She’s getting her $10 a week, what I would do, and they were really interested in this for a long time, and then sort of faded a little bit lately, but we should get back into it is like she’d collect her $10 a week. And then we put it in this like Jar, we’d have like a save and spend jar, you know, and try to like do like kind of budgeting and all that that’s great to also letting them recount the money every single time is great, because they love doing it. And it’s just helpful. So that’s good. And like don’t do it for them, like let them do it. But then at the end of the month, you let them count up all their money, and to promote them not wasting their money. I would say for every $20 bill you have, I will give you $1 Oh, so that is compound interest at its best. Because if now the problem is is I don’t know if you realise this, but if I’m giving you $1 For every $20 5% that you keep in 5% of mine a month, so work that out in a year. And my goal there was to try to like if you say like, Oh, give me 1% You know, like it’s not going to have an effect on on a on a young child, right? Like they’re not going to see the growth fast enough. And this is why as adults it it doesn’t work for a lot of adults. It’s why interest on your, on your mortgage works is that it’s slow enough that people don’t notice it as much. But if you make it so it’s noticeable, then it’s sort of like Holy smokes, like, you know, as they get $100 or $200. And like, oh, wow, like you have $200. And how many 20s? Is that? So think of all the questions you can ask is like in order to figure this problem out, I’m not saying you know, multiply by 0.05. They don’t even know we’re not talking percentage at all, I’m just saying it’s a ratio. It’s a 20 to one ratio. So you have 20 bucks, I’ll give you one buck. How much for 60 bucks. Now I’m working with ratios. And they’re actually solving proportions without cross multiplying. So that’s a fun one to do. And but like I said, you have to be willing to go poor because it will happen fast if you have a keener enough kid

 

Erwin  

is the face self reflect, understand. Compound interest is one of the reasons why I’m so frugal. Because why would I spend it when I can invest it? Totally. And that’s always that’s always been my reason why I’m so frugal. Yeah, absolutely. Why would I spend 60 grand in the kitchen away home when I can go spend whatever in my investment property and it’s gonna return me more rent and it’s making them more valuable, more than the 60,000 I spend. Right.

 

Kyle  

So it’s all it’s all interest. You know, it’s that Nelson Nash, you know, it’s either interest earned or interest spent. It’s like there’s kind of no in between there you know, and yeah, like I think it’s a great lesson for kids. I think it’s a great lesson for us as as adults to be thinking about because it’s it’s happening in the background and very slowly but, but when you see the impact and the influence over time, it’s, it’s quite remarkable.

 

Erwin  

And then for the listeners benefit again, Millionaire Next Door, including my clients, they often don’t spend it in our homes either. Yeah, it is totally the shoemakers children analogy, like our homes do not get attention. Yeah, our investment properties get all the attention.

 

Kyle  

If if I had if I had the, you know, the only say, that would be the case for me as well, my wife is a great balance, because she helps me realise that, you know, she’s like you would live in, you know, a shoe box. And, you know, and, and enjoy nothing, you know, if if I wasn’t here, and I’m like, You know what, you’re absolutely right. So she’s good for me. And they say opposites attract. So in that regard, we sort of balance each other

 

Erwin  

out. Right. I will add that there usually is a breaking point where people do upgrade, for example, I have a client who probably didn’t spend didn’t spend much on their own home. But then they bought themselves a pretty sizable nest, chalet up in Blue Mountain. Very, right. Yeah, I

 

Kyle  

think at some point, you start to question yourself and say, like, Why did like, why am I doing all of this stuff? So my big, that’s kind of where my head is these days is like, you know, finding that balance life is short, you know, and it’s something you got to be thinking about as, as you’re moving forward.

 

Erwin  

Yeah, I would say cherish probably some of the shantala because the last one we bought was there and we renovated. Not a huge renovation, but it’s sizable. But yeah, so now now our home is quite nice. But you know, it wouldn’t have been my choice. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with 70s 80s kitchens and fixtures. As long as it works. I’m good, but works in this clean. I’m fine. I love it. Kyle, thanks so much for doing this. Any any final thoughts? Again? Our 17 listeners? Well, some of them have kids, some of them don’t. I don’t know. Any any final thoughts.

 

Kyle  

I would say anybody who’s sitting there and, you know, has has been on we’ll call it on the sidelines these past couple years has been, you know, probably not a bad idea to sit on the sidelines versus hopping in, as we now know. But, you know, if you’re sitting and you’re you’re not taking that action, you know, reach out to someone in your area, like in our area, you know, we have a lot of people who are have talked about real estate for so long, and they haven’t acted and you know, so oftentimes we’ll we’ll JV with them. So my my partner, Matt Bigley, who’s a realtor here in Windsor, Essex, fantastic, fantastic guy, I actually was saying, Erwin, we got to get him on the show. Him and his team are amazing. But Matt and I typically work with with folks who have maybe, like they want to, and they want to do the learning, but they it’s like time just keeps going by and going by and hey, guess what, that that $20 bill, it’s not getting that $1 compound interest when you’re, you know, just sitting in watching. So I would say find someone who knows what they’re doing. Partner with them, and and learn, you know, learn the process. So that’s what we tend to do. Around here. We try to get really creative with deals and we you know, we we partner with folks, whether we know them or have been referred to them, or they’ve been referred to us I should say, and, you know, we try to we try to also sort of mentor at the same time. So if anyone’s in Windsor, Essex are interested in Windsor, Essex, of course, reach out to myself or, or my partner, Matt Begley. And yeah, we’ll get you taken care of.

 

Erwin  

Fantastic. Well, I think it’s wonderful advice. For example, the people I find that usually get burnt on investments usually did almost nothing in terms of research. Well, it’s kind of

 

Kyle  

like it’s like an either or. Right it’s like they either jump in because someone like me says you need to get in, but they they missed the other part. And or the other hand, where they go like, Okay, I don’t want to be that person. So then they sit and they sit and they sit and they sit. And it’s again, remember, we talked about it earlier, on or off? It’s all in or all out. And I think, you know, to me, that is it took me two years, two years to buy that Florida property. I did research every single night, I searched the entire US, like, I know so much from that work, is it worth it? Great. But if you’re not actually doing the work, and if you’re not going to pull that trigger, then I would say you’ve you’ve got to take that next step which is don’t just dive in blind, go find someone and you know, work with them. And you know, make sure that they’re willing to kind of take you under their wing.

 

Erwin  

check references. Nothing around. Yeah, so antastic and I see that your conference your virtual conference does not conflict with our so I fully expect to see you on November 12.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, myself and and my my co host, John or come in and I’m still trying to arm wrestle. Matt Bigley into it who I just mentioned there,

 

Erwin  

get the arm wrestle him hang up. Yeah, well,

 

Kyle  

you know what, I think it’s a scheduling thing. But you know what I will show up at his house and we will both physically drag him into the vehicle. He was with us the Got the last time we did it. So looking forward to it. Awesome.

 

Erwin  

All right. Oh, thanks for again for doing this. Thanks for your time. Have fun of hockey.

 

Kyle  

Yeah, thanks so much. Hey, nice to see virtually again and we’ll see you in person in just

 

Erwin  

over a month. Yeah, don’t remind me. Thanks, guys. Cheers Have a good one

 

Erwin  

before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up to my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow. But with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there. Forgive the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more and register for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself but so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

To Follow Kyle:

Website: https://makemathmoments.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MathletePearce/

 

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 

 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

$2,800/Month Delivering Food & Stock Hacking With Anderson Carter-Griffith

Do you ever lay awake at night because your brain won’t turn off? I have that all the time.  

My thoughts are somewhat productive as I often think about what needs to be done in work, investing, and family; add to that all the challenges we face, rising costs, pending recession, climate change and its impact on my properties.

 
 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Erwin Szeto (@erwinszeto)

It’s a lot, so to give my brain something else to work on that’s light, I’ll listen to podcasts about the Toronto Blue Jays and the Raptors.  

The only challenge is sleeping with Airpods, which isn’t the most comfortable but passable.  Thank Goodness they’re wireless.

Also keeping me up is what to present at the Wealth Hacker Conference. My planned talks are around the changing world order, how to prepare and weather the storm, and how real estate plays a big part in my and Cherry’s investment plans to build our wealth AND hedge against inflation.

With rents continuing to set historical highs each month, interest rates up, affordability down, new supply down, and demand up…. It’s complicated…

BUT I’ll be doing my best to summarise all the research I do daily AND pull back the curtain to share what deals the smart money is doing.

Thankfully we have many leading Canadian experts in all areas of investing coming to speak on Nov 12th for a one-day, all-day event.  

Are market declines in real estate, stocks, and crypto fun? No, but it’s happened before, and I know people personally who got rich during these times; hence we have experts in each area sharing what they’re investing in on the dip.

We have Mortgage wizard Dalia Barsoum of Streetwise Mortgages sharing an all-new presentation on the investor journey from a comprehensive financing perspective, including partnerships and private money.

Like Cherry and I, Dalia invests in whole life insurance, an often overlooked strategy; hence we have Canada’s leading expert Jayson Lowe, founder of Ascendant Financial, to present why and how this investment has positive returns, EVEN IN 2022, when everything else is down.

As a bonus, for every ticket sold this week, we donate a pair of winter boots to school kids in Hamilton as part of our Basket Brigade efforts.  

No child should be walking to school in running shoes with holes, exposing their toes to the cold, slush and snow.  Cold, wet socks and frostbite are bad enough, but just think about how embarrassing it is for kids to show up to school in broken, dirty shoes.

Another bonus is a FREE ticket to Cherry Chan’s exclusive bookkeeping masterclass happening NEXT WEEK!

More reason to ACT NOW!

My discount code for you, my 17 listeners, is the five-letter word “truth”  

Feel free to share it with friends and family, as everyone needs to prepare for this economic winter. Inflation is here to stay, so financial education is more important than ever. 

CLICK HERE TO LOCK IN YOUR DISCOUNT AND BONUSES!

$2,800/Month Delivering Food & Stock Hacking With Anderson Carter-Griffith

On to this week’s show!!

One of the reasons we started Stock Hacker Academy was we knew real estate was inaccessible to many. With cash flow so squeezed on real estate, I know many are looking for better yield after their real estate portfolios had gone up so much in value. 

At the end of the day, no matter the investor, we’re all searching for a return on our time, passive investments that cash flow and Anderson Carter-Griffith has found a side hustle and investment that works for him. 

Anderson is an immigrant and a chef who was underemployed thanks to the pandemic.  He’s since pivoted to investing in stocks, trading in options, and delivering food via Door Dash, an online food delivery app.

On this show, Anderson shares how he makes a couple of hundred dollars combined via his side hustles and invests in boring stocks for the long term. 

Most importantly, thanks to Anderson’s newfound financial education, he has done a 180-degree turn, having previously prioritized buying luxury cars and accessories. He now prefers to invest for the benefit of compounding returns—something those who unknowingly were spinning their wheels in the rat race can understand.

If you know someone looking to make some extra money to cover rent increases or inflation, Anderson has found himself a solution in side hustles.

During the interview, we mention the stock and options brokerage we use.  Here’s the referral link that helps to support this show. 

Interactive brokers: https://ndcdyn.interactivebrokers.com/Universal/Application?employer=SHA8

Quick disclaimer, none of anything discussed should be considered advice; rather, Anderson and I are sharing our experiences for educational purposes. Please seek professional advice.

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show. I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and me.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and, more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future, knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you, too, are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so, but for now, we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel; we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you by www.stockhackeracademy.ca, where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle, as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full-time musician who just made a 50% return in 2021.  Past, of course, does not predict the future, but if you’d like a free demonstration, go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right and click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration, I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners, and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

Erwin  

Hello, everyone, welcome to the truth about real estate investing show. My name is Erwin Seto. And I have a question. You’re probably awake at night, because your brain won’t turn off. There’s a lot going on the world. And this happens to me all the time. My thoughts are somewhat productive, somewhat a little too fast and furious. As I often think about what needs to be done at work, what needs to be done on our portfolio, like maintenance issues or tenant requests, how low my rents are certain properties, family, of course, add to that all the challenges that we face, the rising costs, ending recession, climate change, and its impact on our property specifically, like maintenance and what damages it adds to the properties. And hence we need to make some decisions there. It’s a lot to tell take on so I need to get my brain something off to work on. That’s light. So I’ll listen to podcasts about typically about the Toronto Blue Jays and the Toronto Raptors. Yeah, they’re I know, they’re disappointing at times, but it’s late. It’s not depressing you they’re somewhat not depressing. The only challenge is sleeping with with your phone, air pods of the apple air pods, which isn’t the most comfortable thing to do, but it’s possible, but at least thank goodness our wireless. Also keeping up is what to present at the wealth hacker conference, I can be a bit of a perfectionist or other challenges. I’ve consumed a lot of information. I read the news regularly like every morning every night. I repeat stuff as well. It’s a good filter for fake news. My plan talk is around the changing world order. Because stuff is going on out there, how to prepare for it, how to weather the storm. Our real estate plays a big part in mine cherries investment plans, not just now but in the future, not only to build our wealth, but to you know, hedge against inflation, which was one of the main reasons I got in originally called people haven’t forgot about that. Rents are also continuing to set historic highs each month. Interest rates are up, affordability down, supplies down, demand is up. It’s complicated, but I’ll be doing my best to sum up all the research that I do on a daily basis. And I’ll pull back the curtain and share what deals the smart money is doing. Thankfully, we also have a lot of leading Canadian experts in all the areas investing coming to speak on November 12. For a one day all day event, as the market declines in real estate stocks crypto. No, it’s not fun. But understand this has happened before not for crypto. But for technology stocks. This has happened before. And I know people personally who got rich during these times. Hence we have experts in each area sharing what they’re investing in on this dip. We also have mortgage wizard Delia Barsoom of st Barths mortgages, sharing an all new presentation on the investor journey from a comprehensive financing perspective that will keep you out of trouble. Unlike a lot of people who got a little too bit too over leveraged in the last year or two. And she will also cover partnerships like joint venture partnerships, Capital Partners, whatnot, and of course private money. Dahlia like cherry and I invest in whole life insurance and often overlooked strategy. Hence we have the candidate leading expert and Jason Lowe, founder of ascendant financial to present why and how this investment has positive return, even in 2022 and everything else is down. Would you like to know about an investment that is always green? Crazy. As a bonus as a charitable bonus for every ticket sold. This week, we are donating a pair of winter boots to school kids in Hamilton as part of our basket brigade efforts. No child should be left to be walking to school and running shoes with holes in them, exposing their toes to the cold slush and snow, cold wet socks and Frostbite is bad enough. But just think about how embarrassing it is for kids to be showing up to school in broken dirty shoes. That’s something we like to allow happen, so we’re doing something about it. Also, we have a discount code for you my 17 listeners. It’s a five letter word, truth, Tru th feel free to share it with your friends and family as everyone needs to prepare for this economic winter. Get everyone on the same page, bring your spouse, bring your partner get them on the same page. There is trouble out there. Inflation is here to stay the globalisation is a thing. So expect inflation to be higher than ever going forward. So financial education is more important than ever, wealth hacker.ca with details and to purchase tickets onto this week’s show, one of the reasons we started stock hacker Academy was we knew real estate was inaccessible to many and with cash flow so squeezed in real estate with prices having gone up so much. Now interest rates have gone up so much. I know many are looking for a better yield on our cash looking for cash flow, because everyone would like more cash flow in their lives. Alright. Also, again, many of our clientele their real estate portfolios, even in this current market, their real estate portfolios have gone up significantly because they’ve been accumulating for like a five, three years. Right. So they’re looking for what to do with those with all that money they made in those properties. Also, I think everyone could do some diversification in their life. At the end of the day, no matter the investor. We Every investor I’ve spoken to, they want a return on their time. And they want passive investments that cash flow. Our guest today interesting courage, Griffith has found a side hustle and investment that works for him. Interesting as an immigrant and a chef who was underemployed thanks to the pandemic. He since pivoted to investing in stocks trading and options and delivers food via DoorDash, the online food delivery app. On the show, Anderson shares how much he makes how he makes a couple $100 combined each week via his side hustles and investments. He also trades young invest in boring stocks for long term so you want to pay attention to that. There’s something for everyone in this episode, especially for young people, especially for folks who find real estate and accessible. Most importantly, thanks to Anderson’s newfound financial education, he has done a complete 180 degree turn, having previously prioritised buying luxury cars, accessories, car accessories, you know, stuff that depreciates and now he prefers to invest for the benefit of compounding returns. So because Anderson didn’t know how to make money before and didn’t know how to invest, he was spinning his wheels in the rat race. So I think many of us can appreciate that. Many of us have probably been there before or know someone who’s still there. So if you know someone who’s trying to make extra money on the side to cover whatever increasing costs they have, thanks to inflation, maybe you want to share this episode with with them. Because again, Anderson has found some solutions in side hustles and investing. During this interview, we mentioned the stock and options brokerage that we use. It’s in the show notes. I have a referral link there. We don’t get any money for it. It’s just to for tracking purposes, and Interactive Brokers is promised to support our community better than just regular people. Quick disclaimer, none of anything’s good should be considered financial advice. But rather Anderson and I are simply sharing our experiences for educational purposes. Maybe little entertainment as well. Please seek professional advice. I give you Anderson. Anderson, how’re

Erwin  

you doing?

Anderson  

Very well. Thank you. Are you doing? As good as you?

Erwin  

Perfect catching up? Probably

Anderson  

better. Probably

Erwin  

better wise. It can be it’s been a year since you had you on the show.

Anderson  

Yeah, yeah. back last year, October.

Erwin  

I can’t believe it. So what’s keeping you busy these days? I see your social media. So yeah, you’ve been having a good time I’ve

Anderson  

been travelling. I’ve been working. I’ve been trading? Well. It’s three main things. If people are following me on social in our group door dashing.

Erwin  

Okay, let’s get into it. So you answered my question already. When you’re it’s keeping you busy these days. So this is catch up the listener, you were here a year ago? You’ve awesome story you were recruited from sorry, which country was the Barbados? Barbados? And there’s one of the ones that they want to get wrong. Yeah, no problem. You were recruited at Barbados to come to Canada to work in hospitality. Specifically chef. Yes. Right. That’s hidden. And that’s when I found that that’s why you stayed was for because you met your wife? Yes. That whether environmental Sure looks nice. Oh, yeah,

Anderson  

it does. It does. But yeah, definitely, definitely.

Erwin  

And then actually remind, remind us how did we meet?

Anderson  

We met because I follow your podcast the the truth about real estate investing? You’re one of the 17 listeners. Yes. One of the 17. And basically, you were talking about your stock hacker course. Yeah. So I listened to that, and I was very interested in it. Then I seek tell a bit more information. And then I took your course, stock akrami. And

Erwin  

you thought it was a scam though?

Anderson  

Yes, I did. I mean, for me, like I said on my last podcast for me certain things, when it doesn’t come hard used to be kind of weird for me. So like, I’m used to hard work. I’m used to working 14 1516 hours a day, you worked in hospitality as a show rep. And coming across your programme. And I was like, I just did the math of it. I was like, well, even if I could make $100 or $200 a week. That’s fantastic. That’s wonderful. Most real estate investors don’t make that. And I’m doing it from my phone. So that was my first introduction to you without you knowing. And yeah, and I just took your course and then from there, head down, studied it back to front, and got soaked into the markets and just kept learning.

Erwin  

And just for the listeners benefit, because I understand somewhat what you do. Yes, you are much more active than then like what we taught?

Anderson  

Yes, well, well, in the beginning, I was doing exactly what you guys teach, which is a beginner introduction to the stock market for people that don’t know, as well as the options market, which is specifically what we do. From there.

Erwin  

It was also meant for someone who didn’t spend a lot of time correct Exactly.

Anderson  

From there. When I found out that there was a way to make money other than working 15 hours a day. That’s where I started to get more engulfed and educate myself. Have on different strategies that you can use for options and equity trading and etc. And basically, it just built up my knowledge from there and your course was a base to introduce me to other styles of trading.

Erwin  

There’s a lot to unpack here. Yes, for sure. So this show is about real estate, you know, interest in real estate,

Anderson  

I do. But at the end of the day, it’s a higher barrier to entry for a lot of people. And with my journey, especially, my focus was on a certain niche, which is, I wanted to be able to expose people from Barbados, and also people that necessarily cannot get into real estate. But they’re able to maybe get into doing stocks, which is a way lower entry there, it’s less capital that they have to put forth. And as well, I was looking at it from a point of view and still look at it from a point of view where, especially in this economy now, if somebody can make an extra $100 or $200 a week, that’s $1,000, roughly a month that can help out for families in need, or families that are finding a bit tight right now on money. So

Erwin  

I’m making us dollars, yes. Which is really,

Anderson  

exactly. So I was like, you know,

Erwin  

like the winning investment this year.

Anderson  

So for me, that was my niche, I just wanted to involve more people or get more people involved on that end of it. Because everybody doesn’t understand real estate such as like yourself and your real estate group. But this and it’s very capital, intense, correct. And this skill to me, I believe anybody can do it with getting the right education. And it starts off as again, an extra dollar in your pocket at the end of the month. So that’s where it’s coming from further real estate end of it. That’s also very long term. And people want money. Now. You buy a house today. You can’t sell it tomorrow. However you buy a stock today, you can sell it next minute and make profit and pull it out and have it in your account.

Erwin  

just clarify. That’s not what you’re doing, though.

Anderson  

No, I’m not doing that. But I’m just so

Erwin  

sorry. Before we get into that, when we taught in the courses, beginner, your education obviously evolved? Yes, for example. And we believe that here internally, it’s just that we’ll be teaching a beginner course, is you need to take what the market gives you x you need to go with the trend. Yes. And the trend has been only really one direction this year. Yes, it has. So just like the famous Netflix movie, The Big Short, yeah, you are shorting

Anderson  

Yes, very much so very much. So I am a short, biassed trader.

Erwin  

That’s just my style, because it’s the market is what the market is given?

Anderson  

Yes, it’s what the market is given as well. And also, for me, it’s I don’t want to say easier, but the way I frame it is a stock goes up. But when it gets to a certain point, most people take what we call take profit. And that causes it to come back down. Therefore the move up is usually slower than the move back.

Erwin  

stairs up. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So yeah, so if you’re directionally bias Yep. Credit, you’ve thought you’ll make money faster

Anderson  

than Yes, but I have no bias. I am a trader. So I just trade charts. Alright,

Erwin  

I have a bias. I’m very pretty bearish on the stock market. Which is understandable, right until this trend reverses. But we’re in a trend right?

Anderson  

Correct that and everybody has to know their tolerance and know their style. And I keep saying their tolerance and style because what you may trade I may not trade and what I trade, you may not trade. But at the end of the day, as long as you are comfortable with your risk and everything that you’re you’re you’re taking on for trading, then it’s your decision from there.

Erwin  

So this is not advice. Yeah. No advice so folks can turn into the YouTube and they can see exactly. You’re literally wearing on your shirt.

Anderson  

Yes, yes.

Erwin  

You have to give me your contact for your swag definitely return. Yes. Is it drip? Like that sounds much better. Because drip means like fashion. Yes, swag does not mean I wear swag.

Anderson  

There’s a smart businessman right there.

Erwin  

Out of Zuckerberg money. For those who are listening, Mehta is on Anderson’s shirt. That’s why I make this comment. Okay, so where do we start? Okay, so I do want to touch on let’s talk about career stuffs. Yeah. Are you still doing the meal service for school kids?

Anderson  

Yes, yes. But that’s been drastically reduced due to other commitments as well. And now that we are coming out of the pandemic, there’s more other business opportunities that are more beneficial for me as well. And also a step back from it, because I decided that this is what I want to do trade. Okay, I want to be a trader make more time for that correct. So I had to shift around my schedule a bit. But now literally, you cannot find me away from my desk, my trading desk that is between totally different now. Yes. Yes, big time. But I’m at my trading desk from around eight o’clock, just for eight o’clock. And you can’t see me leave there until around 1030 At night, no 8am until 1030, a long day. Two hours, two hours. And that’s where I find it funny where people think that this needs to take all day, it doesn’t need to take all day. And it doesn’t even need to take two hours. It’s just my trading style. Because I love the markets. And I choose to be visually sitting there every day. But I’ve got some positions on that I put on. When I say put on it. I mean by putting on I mean, executed done. I placed orders conditions in the market in the market exposure since three, three weeks ago. And I haven’t looked at them. Well, I don’t need to look at them. Right.

Erwin  

So just trying to provide context. We had Tim Collins on two weeks ago. He doesn’t even look at his stuff. Because he’s on dividends stuff. Right? Okay. I didn’t even look at it. Yeah, for I think when he looks at is when when he comes in. Look, how has his portfolio performing? Yeah, I’m

Anderson  

the same way on what I call my mid performing portfolio. Got it. Okay. So

Erwin  

you’ve segmented your folio? Yes, I

Anderson  

have. I have my my portfolio into three sections. So I have my short term, which is basically day trading. I have my midterm, which is couple of weeks anywhere between one week to a month. And then I have my long term, which is usually hold for a while. And that’s dividend ETS. Yeah, dividend ETF?

Erwin  

sure which one? Well, I

Anderson  

usually advise folks. I usually will do like stuff that basically has any tech in it, right? I do either dividend ETFs. Or I will actually do like dividend stock. Okay. So for example, my long term I hold like McDonald’s, I hold Walmart, I hold Exxon Mobil, that kind of stuff. That will when the price is right, and I made it, there’s a system that I have, which is I make money from the day trading, I take that profit. And from that profit, I put into dividends, or I’m not familiar if you know about something called IBC infinity bank in with Jason Lowe. Hey, yeah. So I have a couple of policies for him as well.

Erwin  

Obviously, you’re buying life insurance. Plastic. Yeah. Interesting. Yes.

Anderson  

So my trading funds my whole life policies.

Erwin  

So you’re taking investment money to pay for your life insurance, that you own life?

Anderson  

That’s pretty cool. Yeah. Oh, yes.

Erwin  

We might the whiteboard this later. Yeah, sure. Definitely. Like this later.

Anderson  

Like I said, for me, it’s I kind of like to approach things a bit different and think a little bit outside the box. And I was like, Okay, I’m sure people think

Erwin  

you’re crazy. Yeah, some people do. So that’s fine. Play the majority your friends.

Anderson  

They’re coming around, no, no, that they see the post on Facebook and they see certain things I’m doing and certain moves that I’m making. I know they’re there a bit. It has piqued their interest a bit when they’re like, for example, they go a year ago, this guy was completely crazy. Now they go, Well, he’s still doing what he’s doing a year ago. And he’s doing this with it. Right, which is like all Case in point a year ago. Again, nothing is guaranteed in the stock market at all. But as long as you I have a scene, and my saying is as long as you take your profits and bank it, you will be fine. The issue that that a lot of traders have is that an endorser and when I say in our circle in the trading world, we use a term called hold and hold. And a lot of traders do that. I don’t hold on hold, I set parameters. And I trade robotic. If I am entering a trade, and I say I don’t want to lose more than $1 or $5 wide if we’re doing spreads, and as long as it hits that I’m out of the trade, right where people go, Oh, we will come back. It’ll come back to me and you get destroyed that way. Right? You have rules Correct. I have params First, I have rules. And I follow them the same way as, again, for the listeners. There’s computers that do trading. They’re called our goals. They do not break their parameters at all. No, it’s a computer it’s a computer. So real exactly as as real similar. And if you’ve done research on algo trading, because I like I said, I’m into this algos performing over a long span of time, always make profit. Why is that? Because they remove the emotional stuff. Yeah,

Erwin  

like fear, correct. We’re just kind of over right now. Fair or good? Yeah. Well fear right now fear right

Anderson  

now, yes, because the market is going down. And then greed when the markets going up. But if you always have parameters set, that removes certain greed. And you’re just trading pretty much a chart. And, again, nothing is guaranteed, but over a long term. And it has been historically proven Understairs data points on the old day loan, that you will make a profit, it’s time in the market. Again, it’s not an It sounds weird. It’s time in the market, not timing, the market. Right? People try to time the market. So for example, I’ll give an example right now the market is in a bear market. And people are going to wait until the think that we’re getting out of a bear market. So you’re trying to time the bottom. Right. But where I’m coming from is regardless of time in the bottom, if you have time as in weeks, months, years, repetitive steps that you could do in a year, two years, five years, you should be profitable. As long as you set parameters.

Erwin  

It’s time to mention it now. Because some people have parameters like before we’re recording. Yeah, there’s people we that we know. Yeah, we’re way down this year, of course,

Anderson  

because they didn’t cut losses. Correct. They don’t cut losses, because their parameters just to hang on to it. Yeah, but actually, that’s not a parameter for them, though. That’s an emotion. I call it to get married to a stop. Don’t get married to stop

Erwin  

right. Now. Don’t get married to have my house either. Right?

Anderson  

Same thing. Exactly. If somebody came and offered you $500,000 More than you paid for your house, I can guarantee you’re going to go bye bye to the house. Correct. You’re not going to sit there and go I love this house. It’s on the lake. No, you’re gonna you’re the type of individual my investment properties around the lake. Right? Yeah, but but I’m just saying if but I’m just saying people will, will do that get offered way over the price that they bought it for. And they have an attachment to stuff. Me. I don’t know, maybe that’s just my personality. But I don’t like prime example. A bit funny. If I’m wearing a shirt right now, and you love this shirt. And you say, Anderson, I wanna give you 500 Oh, sweatshirt, this shirt has gone off the off my back at the end of the show. Because that $500 didn’t cost me $500. But I can take that money and go buy

Erwin  

it again. And don’t take your investments personally. Correct?

Anderson  

Exactly. I don’t I don’t. Because, like you said, there’s a lot of people hurting due to the stock market right now. And they they’re like, oh, stock market is crap. And and did it. But I don’t want to sound weird, but that’s your fault. Because you held them hooked. And you didn’t follow your guidelines. That’s all this is about?

Erwin  

Or then after you get the guidelines?

Anderson  

Or yeah, you know, or they just refuse to have guidelines. And first, which is crazy to me write

Erwin  

everything down for greed as well. Yeah. Correct. And also everyone should consider the term as well. Because if you’re if you’re, for example, if you’re going to be one of those people that’s going to hold and hope yet, then you should have long term. Correct.

Anderson  

All right. You can’t be in a hold and hope situation with thinking a short term outcome. It will never work. Never worked. And also, I mean, in my journey, like I like I said in my last book, it took me a while to get here, like get this mentality. Like I said on my last podcast, and don’t get me wrong, folks. When you start to trade, you have to be willing to lose money. You can’t win them all. You cannot win them all. Right now, house flipper can’t win them all. And the issue there is if you cannot stomach losing money, this is not the for you. Simple, but if you can stomach losing what I call planned losses over time again, or just due to straight math, it’s math. If I am trying to get five points, for example, and I am willing to risk two points to get five points every time I lose two points. It means I should be up three points. suspected. Yeah. Yeah, if my loss is going to be correct, I will always be up three points and three points repeated over and over and over. I will be up on My portfolio, that’s just a simple way of looking at things I like to simplify things. People like to come with this whole big brain stuff. I’m not big green, I’m just one of those individuals that I go to DoorDash, for example,

Erwin  

just DoorDash, they don’t have it. The other ones you don’t like the

Anderson  

other one, I was just DoorDash I just DoorDash because the other ones, the actual companies, they take more of a commission. Because Because we’re all freelancers. And how it works, just to quickly refresh the listener is, with DoorDash, you go pick up food deliveries, and you get paid. And then DoorDash gets paid a small commission from your pay to be on like, beyond their network is almost like a network fee. And they have the lowest fee. So I went with them. Right? And as long as you can figure out a system, and you do it over and over and over, you will be able to make money and you will be able to fund in my case, fund my trading account.

Erwin  

How often are you working for DoorDash?

Anderson  

I work every day, every day for five hours? Which hours? Usually do around four till nine in the evening dinner? Yeah, dinner dinnertime and ask before recording. Yeah, you don’t see any drop in? There’s no drop off is the recession. Yeah,

Erwin  

today we’re clear

Anderson  

correctly. So recession. But the funny thing is, is with with, with those delivery services, people tend to like not cooking. It’s kind of weird to me, but people tend not to like cook in. So they buy food delivery. And for me, it’s like they’re not in a recession because all they do is just buy cheaper stuff. So before we were going to like I said, somebody use that would use to be buying like steak and potatoes, for example. They will lower that down to chicken and potato or chicken and salad meal. Right. But it doesn’t affect me. Because my delivery free doesn’t change all your fees set. Well, it’s like distance. So regardless of what you ordered, okay, yeah, it is. It doesn’t matter what you order. My thing is based off of distance, and tip. Okay, so So I’ll give you a funny example. I did two deliveries side by side. So I’ll give a funny example. I did one delivery where I picked up 13 items. And for argument’s sake, let’s say that was $20. And then the delivery right after that, I picked up one item, and it was the same $20 That’s it a big item.

Erwin  

It was a coffee. Yep, kidding me. How was it? $20. But they pay for the coffee?

Anderson  

I don’t know. I don’t care. I don’t see their order. I don’t see the price they pay for the order. All I see is my delivery fee. And my tip. So with delivery free and tip. It was $20

Erwin  

They smell like $100 Coffee. For me.

Anderson  

It didn’t make a difference. For Lou. I can’t fathom why you would get a coffee delivered and pay me $20. But who am I to question and measure paid for? This? Yes. So the person ordered on the app, they ordered a coffee. And when I delivered it by the time the delivery fee plus they gave me a tip. It was $20 in my pocket.

Erwin  

So they probably paid like $30 for a coffee. Correct?

Anderson  

Exactly. Craziness. But for me, that’s great. $30 for coffee. But if you know certain brands of coffee, I don’t know if we can talk brands on here, but certain brands of coffee that they call six and seven and $8 not paying $30 For to think about it a family of four there’s $32 right to make my own coffee. You can I can they don’t. It’s crazy to me. We’re frugal. That’s why me and your frugal must be recession. It’s supposed to be a recession. I hear that all the time. But people don’t abide by what the government or whoever saying like they don’t care,

Erwin  

or that is bad with their money. Yeah, it’s probably that correct, which is either

Anderson  

bad with their money, or they just told himself, you know what, we just came out of pandemic, and now you put a recession. I don’t care. That’s a lot of people attitude. And they’re out and about, and they’re still going out and they’re still spending money. That’s them. It works for me. I’m, as far as I’m concerned. Keep doing it.

Erwin  

Can you share how much you make in a week? And

Anderson  

then we Yeah, so in a week on DoorDash I make consistently easily in a week, and we’re between my minimum is $500 to about $800 and that’s five hours a day.

Erwin  

And then how do you split that up? What are your buckets for that you have a good vacation fund you have

Anderson  

right so when I get well here’s here’s the breakdown of it. So when I get that money when I get DoorDash money, I put it into my trading account immediately. All of it okay, yeah, all of it. Then from my trading account is my pockets that I was talking about.

Erwin  

Sorry, apologies. It’s still Interactive Brokers. Yes, sir. Interactive Brokers, Interactive Brokers. I’ll have a, we have our referral link in the show notes. I’ll put it there. We get nothing for it. We get nothing for it. Yeah. But

Anderson  

great broker. I’m happy with them. They do what I need. Well, the thing

Erwin  

is, we’re because we’re Canadian, we don’t have any options. And all the other ones were way more expensive.

Anderson  

Yeah, well, we’ve got a few more options, but they’re not ideal to what we do

Erwin  

expensive. Yeah, they want to expand. Yeah, they’re pretty Yeah. Then because we’ve got we’ve heard good things about all of them. Yeah, we’ve got

Anderson  

more brokers that we could use, but for what we do Interactive Brokers

Erwin  

is the best. I can’t imagine what your Commission’s would be if you were on a different broker.

Anderson  

Well, I can I can tell it’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous.

Erwin  

But Interactive Brokers over 10 Grand i bet you Oh, yeah.

Anderson  

easily, easily for no different service. Correct. All right. Yeah. That’s what I said. Like, like, we’ve chosen a very good broker and their platform is very well, in my opinion, easy to understand once you learn it. And then their Commission’s are great. Right.

Erwin  

So isn’t the easiest learn for beginner? Because we yeah, we learned exactly what we taught how to use it for our purposes or right. It’s easy, because it can do like 100 different things. Yeah. But we only need it for like two things.

Anderson  

Well, I use it for about three things. Yeah. So 3%

Erwin  

Yes. So you only need to you only need to be taught 3% of the application because

Anderson  

that’s exactly what I was saying back to my whole buckets I use my whole entire thing is Sir interactive broker. So even my my short term trading, which is day trading stuff, that’s Interactive Brokers, right, options made to the long haul, that’s Interactive Brokers, and long term straight stock dividend is also underwritten from brokers

Erwin  

See, like boring things like the day trading, see like boring long term stuff. And you do the daily data? Yes, yeah.

Anderson  

Correct. Correct place for all of it. Yeah, there is. And also, I

Erwin  

want to say for the listeners benefit, you don’t have to do the day trading at all. All right. I do think you need a certain personality

Anderson  

to do that. Yeah. It’s very high, intense, and, and very time consuming. And I will say right now, I do not recommend it for 95% of people.

Erwin  

I do think anyone who wants to try should try it with paper, correct.

Anderson  

Simulation and paper. And I’ve done that maybe

Erwin  

you didn’t know you’re talented?

Anderson  

Exactly. Well, to be honest, I paper traded what we call paper trading, which simulation trading. And I did that for over six months, right? Before I stepped foot in the arena of real money. And even when I did real money, I went in with what we call very small position size. So I was like, I’m in the stock market, and I’m gonna throw so much money at it. There’s baby steps to this. And there’s a learning curve, Stace, I just happen to ramp up my learning curve, because as I said, in my last podcast, as well, I’m that type of individual. I’m that type of individual that will when I latch on to something, I go full force. It was the same thing when I used to work hotels, and then people thought it was crazy. I worked at a morning job, did eight hours, and then literally begged and asked around for extra hours. And so my day was 16 hours and people oh my gosh, crazy. But for me, it’s always an end goal. It’s always I’m doing this to achieve this, right? People have asked, Oh boy, this guy goes out and does DoorDash every single day. Oh my god, I could never do that. He must be crazy. But I am collecting 805 $800 While you sit there and you complain that you don’t have any money. I have no money to invest. Correct. I have no tolerance where men are so sensitive. Yeah, I and I’m proud of it. Because I don’t I don’t like that people have this woe is me attitude or this. Oh, will feel sorry for me. I’ll feel sorry for you. Yes, but at the same time, you aren’t doing anything at all. To change your situation. It’s the same as also like back to your a bit of like the real estate side of stuff. If you want to buy a property and you do not have enough money. Usually what you guys try to do you try to do a joint venture, maybe not you per se but that’s how people do it. And they will go there on the seat, correct. And they’ll go there and they have to do the legwork. To find a joint venture partner. They have to do their pitch. That’s them putting in work, work to achieve something that is bigger at the end of it just for upfront legwork is the same. I just bring that back to what I do. Okay. I want to fund my training account. I don’t want to do it out of my day job money. I am free in the afternoons and I get that everybody is not free in the afternoons which is fine. But there’s ways to make money too. There’s work from home that bloomed and blossomed during the pandemic. Somebody could have picked up that if you’re Gotta type in. There’s people that want you to type up like legal letters and stuff like that. My wife does that. Right? And that’s her side job. That’s my point. Everyone should have a side hustle. Everybody should have one. As long as you are not bogged down with other stuff. I think everybody should have one. It’s very good. It’s a very good thing.

Erwin  

I actually love your model, because your side hustle feeds into your your assets. Correct? Do you use your side hustle to pay for asset? Exactly?

Anderson  

Again, people see certain stuff. And they don’t understand the background grind for it. So yes, I like like you said, I’ve got a vacation bucket. And I’ve got an invest in bucket. But all that comes with work on the back end to fund my account, to do trading to make profit to do these things.

Erwin  

Right. So is it your trading profit that you’re travelling with? Yes. You’ve had some nice, yes. Yeah. Where would you travel the last four months?

Anderson  

I’ve been going on it’s cheap. Yeah. Well, awesome. Yes, and no, because because here’s, here’s where I know, again, when you learn stuff, and you educate yourself, you can learn the system, what I call the system. Okay. So what it is, is there is travel points, with your credit cards, your signup, bonuses for those travel points. Those travel points can be used for airfare and hotels. And basically, it’s called Travel arbitrage. And what it is, is, you trade, you make a certain amount of money, in my case, you trade you make a certain amount of money, you apply for a card, you get the bonus, you use the card up to a certain amount of positions, certain like amount you have to hit so I’ll give dirty numbers. So if you get occurred, and the car says you need to spend $5,000, in three months to get 30,000 points, no, for me, I go $5,000, I can spend that in three months, that’s a normal number for average household electricity bill, food bill gas would run everything through that card. Here’s the discipline part again, and this goes back to anything, it’s discipline, you’re going to put it on your card, and you’re going to pay that card off, you’re going to put it on that card, and you’re gonna pay that car, use the card like a debit card, they don’t care, no balance, do not carry a balance people negative invalid got correct, everything is there, you just have to understand how the system works. And basically, long story short, you spend the $5,000, in three months, you get the $30,000 30,000 points, and you buy a regular plane ticket, and you upgrade for 20,000 points to a business class ticket for free. That’s how you do it. That’s how it’s done. That’s how you’re paying for all this stuff. You pay for some of it, you pay for some of it. Because then what happens is the longer game, that’s why so you have to understand how certain cards work. For example, I’ll pay for a business class ticket racket, and because you’re in that class, now you get triple or five times the points, which means that my next trip, I can buy a normal ticket, an upgrade, and still be in a business class or a premium class, if you understand that, and that’s how you

Erwin  

travel. Yes, you want to be class are better. I do

Anderson  

not know the economy and I have no shame in it. I will do normal economy. But if I can basically get into a business class, or first class for literally the same price as an economy to get all funded by trading. Everything goes hand in hand. All right. Your wife understands what you’re doing. Yeah, she she totally understands. She loves it. She loves it. Because I don’t leave her out. And that’s,

Erwin  

I mean, every you’re travelling with her. Yeah. I don’t leave her out and leave her an economy when you’re in business class. Of course,

Anderson  

never. I’ll be on the couch. And not only that, but um, she understands a trading because she she was working from home before. She’s now back at the office. But she’s working from home before. I my workstation is right next to her. I’m here and she’s there. And she would see me training. And she’s a very supportive woman, and curious as well. She trades as well. She doesn’t do it as aggressive as I do. But because she’s seen me doing it. She has gotten an interest in doing it. And, again, if you have a life partner or wife or whatever, that understands what you do, it’s even more fun. It’s more fun, because I would be sitting there at my TradeStation she’ll be sitting there at her computer. I’m making money. She’s making money. We’re what like a mini what we call prop floor where I’m calling stuff and if I’m for example, I’ll I’ll just and these are not stock Pics or anything. But if I’m trading Tesla, I’m focused on Tesla. She might be trading in video, same household, all the money still in the same household. But I have a wing woman, a wing woman going partner. Yeah, right. And that’s, that’s part of the fun of it too. And she understands the long term goal of it. And, and it’s not really to be honest with you, or, and it’s not anything special like don’t, if I make a million dollars, great if I don’t make a million dollars, great. My target. And my focus for stock Hacking has always been those three things, paid for my vacations, have a bit of money to pay for bills, and at the end of the day, have other extra to invest as well. And you have to be realistic with this. Again, this is not a magic pill, this is not a get rich, quick scheme. This is your hard earned money that you’re investing. It’s still invest at the end of the day. And it can be gone in literally it could be gone in a second. So I take it as actually just I call it my day job. And I sit at my trading desk. Do you take it that serious? Yes, I am at work. I am at work. This is not a game. Because I know that it took me 35 hours of doing DoorDash and I posted in our Facebook group people say I’ve done DoorDash all year round in snow, and sun and hot summers. So for me, if I’m out there doing that, why should I know take that capital and turn this into a game or a job?

Erwin  

That you worked for extra hard earned money? Correct.

Anderson  

So therefore, for me, I see it as a job. And I sit down and I when I trade between the hours of eight and 1030 ish. I am at work your professional. Yeah, I’m very disciplined and I go back to that old time. You have to be disciplined. This because people think that this is a casino. And like I said, this is not for everybody. If you have I mean, there’s people out there with gambling problem and stuff. This is not for you. I will never tell you to do this. If you if you have sad to say if you have an addiction to gambling and this is not for you. I couldn’t

Erwin  

agree more. I said I’ve seen people do gambling this behaviour correct. It was absolutely wrong thing that correct. This is

Anderson  

not for you. If you have that gambling mentality, and that gambling attitude. I will say this out loud and clear to everybody right now you will lose everything.

Erwin  

Just like the casino. Correct. Your

Anderson  

house will win. Yeah. So this is if you are that person, please take my advice. If you’re that person do not do this.

Erwin  

The analogy I have in my head of the stock market. Yeah. Is I’ve been watching baseball lately. Yeah. So I think of the stock market as a professional pitcher. Yeah, and I’m the batter. Correct. And the pitcher is pretty much always like statistically, the pitcher almost always wins. Correct? Right? Correct. Like, you know, to be an all star you hit three 30% Yes, right. 300 Technically, but three times that attend you get a hit. You are an all star. Yeah. All right. In the world of, you know, gambling or stocks, you’re getting killed.

Anderson  

So that’s how I think of it. That’s why I want people to have the mindset of the stock market is not there like making money for the stock market. There’s actually to prey on weak players to take your money to take your money. It’s there to take your money. And it’s purposely set up that way. It’s it’s literally like you said it’s online. Vegas. Right. And they have glorified this. They have glorified this where they turned it into a game when you

Erwin  

like there’s certain games Yeah.

Anderson  

Sorry. Yep, sorry. There we go. Game a fight. That’s where I’m looking for. It turned into a game where when you buy a stock on certain audio confetti flowing on your phone, and to me, that’s the wrong perception to be sending to people. But for me, gamifying it should not be and I’ve seen people got their shirts handed to them because of it.

Erwin  

I feel like dollar cost averaging maybe you want gamify that? Yeah, absolutely longterm shirt. Yes. Grading behaviour.

Anderson  

No trading behaviours should be gamified. Long term. Yeah. If you if you like you say if you want to gamify bitten, if a bite here and I’m holding in it. It’s got a dividend. I do that in my long term portfolio. I got cheese. Oh my gosh, do you see the price on Walmart? Do you see the price of war Nike or Nike just just had earnings yesterday to kill and got murdered and made money. But the long player advice folks, not advice. But again, that goes to my trading buckets. And you have to be educated to do the right you see under risk, correct frontline risks? Exactly. People need to understand the risks that I’m putting on here is minimal. I don’t want you guys to think that this guy is here, throwing the whole house gambling, no, very far from it. But what I’m doing is repeatable. I’m very specific steps that I do. repeating over and over and over over a long term.

Erwin  

We’ll talk more about that offline. With the team. I’m sure they’d like to hear for sure. I forgot I was going, oh, I want to continue with the baseball analogy. So we’re in beta, I’ve been battered, so successful, usually when the pitcher makes a mistake, correct. For example, if you’re hanging curveball, yeah. And so the analogy I would apply for stock is stock market is sometimes there’s excessive fear. Yes. Right. You know, for example, one stock I keep watching is Bank of Nova Scotia. Okay. All right, then the CEO has transitioned out. And the stock has tanked. Yep. But now the dividend is over 6%. It’s still going down, I think there’s a good chance there’s a chance to make keep going down again, not advice, folks. But to me, this seems excessive. Yeah. It’s overdone. That’s overdone. And that can be a buying opportunity.

Anderson  

But remember what I stated earlier, and we said it earlier, people get fearful. And it’s an elevator write down. Right. So when people see read on that screen, it induces a feeling of panic. And it induces a feeling of the your hair’s on fire. So I have to sell, right? Whereas with a long term strategy, again, dollar cost averaging and learning educating yourself on how to do this. You can sit on the sideline. Cash is a position that yeah, cash is a position people look, people seem to not remember that. Cash is a position. And anybody with cash in a bear market will succeed when it turns around, because what can they do? Like and ride the wave? And rather than

Erwin  

is fierce? It’s actually funny. It’s actually on CNN as website this year. The fear greed index? Yeah. And it actually said a month ago, we were neutral. We’re almost we’re almost midpoint, like, almost 50%. midpoint. I can’t believe that was a month ago. Yeah.

Anderson  

But yeah, let’s talk about inflation and a lot of that stuff. Recession, recession. And, you know, what the, the the Federal Reserve war in Ukraine and Russia and stuff going on in Europe, with their dollar and world events cause, like the stuff to happen, right? So a month ago, when people were saying we’re neutral and stuff like that, but you’re reading articles about this is not changing. We have to do an inflation. We hiked inflation rates by this much by 75 basis points. And I’m hearing nothing out of their mouth about we’re cooling anything. All they’re saying is we’re hiking, we’re hiking, we’re hiking, eventually, what do you think will happen? The fun has the right has to come to an end. It has to, and you have to get things you have to reel things back in and get things under control, where people have, I should say people were used to a lot of machinist in the stock market. Everybody thought that once you bought a just goes to the moon. A lot of people got in around back in the day, you know it Gamestop EMC those kinds of crazy times, people got in and thought that that’s the stock market. No, it isn’t. But again, so foolish, foolish, silly, very, very, very silly. And they don’t understand the mechanics of it. Right? And they don’t like you and I that will beat dive and look into what’s going on in the economy, what’s going on in the world, what’s going on with inflation, what’s going on with with mortgages or whatever. And we then pieced together a puzzle where we formulate a trade plan, which we execute over a long term. No kid on his phone, in his mom’s basement is doing that. But he’s gonna take his check from his job and go through it into the stocks and then wonder why he has no money.

Erwin  

I don’t know anyone personally doing this.

Anderson  

I’ve read articles. I don’t know anybody personally either, but I’ve read of articles. And it’s a bit sad that people just don’t understand and they’re just casinos. Yeah, it’s casino stuff. But as long as you know what you’re doing and again, you’re educated and you have the right mindset. This can be done. And this can be done easily.

Erwin  

What’s your outlook for the markets? Or do you care? You’re gonna read the trend.

Anderson  

I don’t care. The reason why I don’t care because I am I am a I’m a what you call, I’m a Chart Trader. So I just trade what’s in front of me. I don’t, I don’t have a crystal ball. And I don’t like to forecast too far out anyway. But I will say this over history. And over time, the market has done this over and over and over. And it has done what rebounded. So I have to take again, the data that is there. And the data is telling me that the market goes down, and it goes back up, and it goes down, and it goes back up. We’re just in a downward motion. I don’t know for how long, nobody knows for how long but I will say this, as long as you know that you have cash on the sideline, or you’re making moves where you are able to capitalise on a down move.

Erwin  

And if you don’t need your money right away current market exactly how

Anderson  

you can sit this out. And trust me sit in and out will reap some major major David, major money on the way back? Because right now start marks on sale. People don’t want to hear that. But for me, it’s not Marcus on sale. It’s gonna be hidden lower though. Yeah, but But I’m saying we will never thought or people will never think that we can be picking up certain stocks at this price. Yeah,

Erwin  

like Nikes. Like in the 80s. Yeah. And it was 160. Yeah. Not that long ago.

Anderson  

Correct. Right. And if I said

Erwin  

no crack stock, let’s say AMC, Jr. Right? Correct. This is

Anderson  

Nike quality company that’s been running for years. And that’s, that’s, that’s what we stress on in our programme as well. We stress on you’re buying quality, long track record stocks, you’re not buying the jump on the bandwagon what to do stocks, the carnival right stocks is what I call them,

Erwin  

at the most recognised yet top two red, most recognisable brand in the world. Yeah, the Nike swoosh sure, do them

Anderson  

the only other person rather than that is Apple or McDonald’s think, you know, but in our programme and what we’re taught, we’re taught to to buy quality socks, right. And that way, as long as something is quality, it may go down in value, because it is quality. People will recognise that at that price. It’s a deal. And it will go back up. And we our programme is usually a long as we trade long, long what we call long bias. And because there’s only so much

Erwin  

time to teach, right, exactly,

Anderson  

but right now,

Erwin  

that’s that’s hard enough for a lot of people to figure out the long, a great, including spray. I totally agree before we cover shorts,

Anderson  

I totally agree. It’s complicated. It’s very complicated. I tell people all the time, it’s one of those things where you have to be willing to take time out to learn this. This is not something you learn overnight. This is not even even if you take the education not going to take stock hacker Academy, digest it all in two nights. And go trade next week. That the course actually if you’re doing stock hacker Academy, correct. That’s what course should take you a couple months. And then you you actually need to refresh it.

Erwin  

Yeah, you should be practising with paper. simulated trading. Yeah. If someone’s really new to this, like new to stock world new option world. Yeah, they should probably retake the course correct. Which is free to do. Because it looks at the recordings for 12 months. there’s any confusion they should they should understand what they’re doing for the rest of their money.

Anderson  

Exactly. And people don’t understand that. When you invest in yourself, and you understand what it took to take that money and invest in yourself. That’s why I said, How can you take this for a game? Anybody doing this and anybody taking the role of education and stuff like that? You had to work for that money. You took time away from your family, you went to your job. Some people are in a job that they don’t like. So you went to a job that you didn’t like and you work for 40 hours times X amount of

Erwin  

weeks, you’re driving the snow, correct? It’s dangerous. Exactly.

Anderson  

And for me, it’s for anybody for that matter. If you’re investing in yourself and you’re investing in a course and you’re taking your hard earned money to do it. You need to take it serious. I am out there from me personally, I am out there in the snow, delivering food and it’s a risk. Every time I get in my car, it’s a risk. Right? And I’m doing it Because I am willing to say this risk is worth a bigger reward in the long run,

Erwin  

as well as in the long run, but you’re doing extremely well. Can you? Can you share some numbers? how well you’re doing? Yeah.

Anderson  

So I started out with a basic tart. Actually, I’ll put it this way. So I started out with $1. Target. And now I’ve transitioned into a percentage target. Okay, so high dollar target, was, when I very first started, I started out, I’ll give you a number. So I started out my account with $3,000. That’s the minimum that you need. You need $2,500 to trade.

Erwin  

That’s a really smart number. Yeah, I like 3k. Because like, for most, that won’t be devastating, at all. Exactly. But let’s see if you can prove to yourself you can make money with 3k. Exactly before you do. 100k. Thank

Anderson  

you. And you took the words right on my mouth. I start with 3k. American, Canadian, American, okay, so 3k American, because we owe for our platform, for the listeners sake for our platform, well, if you want to trade US stocks, and that’s where the move, what we call the movement is more action. Yeah, and the Canadian or Canadian election, when the volume, there’s Canadian stocks that pay very well, next dividend, and I keep those in my long term. But tax advantaged TFSA, you put it in that and everything else, but for what we do options trading, you either need movement in it, or it needs to go sideways, if you’re doing spreads. But basically, I started out with a $3,000 account. And my target was let me make $100 a week, on a $3,000 account, you can make $100 a week with a spread, if I really want to get technical, and this is in a perfect world, folks. But I’m just saying for numbers sake, if you took $3,000, and in a perfect world, you did spreads, you could generate around $1,000 on them. And it sounds crazy, doesn’t it. But I’m just saying that, that’s in a perfect scenario. That’s why I started with that. And the numbers wise, we are not in a perfect scenario, we do not know what’s going to happen the very next second stock market. So but I’m saying that on paper with spreads. And with the three key accounts on paper, you could make that money that just I’m just trying to show you the power of trading and what could be done in bulk. But on my end started with 3000, try to infer $100 a week, then I took my DoorDash money. And every week, I added to my account. And I just told him that you can make $500. So that’s nice round numbers $500 a week of DoorDash. Every week is $2,000 at $2,000. Plus, what I originally put in that puts me at What no $5,000 Then there was a plus exchange Yeah, around 5000. Give or take a bit. And even on that for about the first I want to say two, three months, my target was to make $100 a week with the movements in the market. Luckily for me, I took advantage of certain market moves and certain stocks, and I was making more than that. So then I decided, okay, let me change it to $200 a week. And that was about two, three, I want to say three months to be unsafe, so three months later. So if you do the math, again, this this, again is a process, right? And the easy way to put it is the more money you have in your account, the more trades you can take. So if I started with 3000, and every month, even if I am taking, again, controlled losses from taking control losses, but I’m putting a run $2,000 into the account from doing DoorDash. then by Month Number three, I should have around six or $8,000. Starting from the beginning, around that mark No. You can take bigger trades. You can do different styles of trading, or style we sell puts, but there’s a couple of different styles that I use to trade. I also do straight equity. I also do by trade

Erwin  

equity for your

Anderson  

district stock. street style like how we will buy a stock and hold. Same concept, buy the stock straight, sell it for profit just in a shorter window. And those stocks are stocks that are under $50. So for the listeners sake, when we talk about contracts, one contract is 100 shares, 100 shares, times $50 stock is $5,000. I just said that in three months, you have $5,000. So therefore, the three month mark, I can no trade equity, I don’t only have to trade options, right. So therefore, at the three month mark, you can now afford 100 shares, I can afford 100 shares of stock that cost me 5000, which cost me $5,000. Same move, and you make money for the listener again, that might not know, you make money when a stock goes up by buying it, or you make money when a stock goes down by selling it. Either way, the movement in that stock. For example, if it’s a 50 cent move, and you have 100 shares, that it’s $50. If it makes $1 Move, you have $100, switch to equity, trade, get a 50 cent move, or even a 25 cent move. And my target that I said used to be $100 a week, if I can get a 25 cent move in day, there’s five days in the week, and I have enough in my account, I can make my 100, actually more than $100 a week. And that’s how you know, like I said, this becomes no compounding. And this becomes how you grow your account. Once that part is done, and you start to add a few more strategies, then basically at the end of the day, you can grow an account from 3000. To where it is over 5x. In my case, he five extra account. Yes. How you feel about the amazing, completely amazing, and how long? You’re just under your because we were here. I opened the account on my last interview with you. But that was Yeah, but that’s from trading profits and working. Okay, let’s not forget to work in part. Let me be clear, folks, this is not only true, I know because people think only 25. This is coming from $3,000 trade. No, I never said that. This is from working and trading.

Erwin  

So what are your new goals? Now? What are your goals? As a percentage now, percentage wise,

Anderson  

I’m trying to make about anywhere between five to 10% a month. Right? It’s not always there, right? No, no, no, that’s my goal to make. They’re pushing for it or not pushing for it. You’re not pushing for it. Because because you don’t want to force traits don’t force it. That’s, again, this is a job. And this is structured. So I need to be clear. And I will say it again. If it’s not there. It’s not there yet.

Erwin  

Right? It’s like you’re building a house correctly. If you’re ready to pour foundation,

Anderson  

you don’t do it. Same thing. Exactly. Because the long term being being in the market long term is more important than forcing a trade and losing everything that I’ve built over time. Don’t lose money. Correct. Rule number one, don’t lose money. Or I will say or okay, there’s rule number one, don’t lose money. And then there’s rule number 1.5, which is if you lose money, lose less than you make. It’s simple math folks. Simple math. If I maintain the game, correct, if I make 100 I am not risking 100 I am going to risk 20. Because here’s the thing with stock market opportunities will arise over and over and over again. It’s circular. Yeah, opportunities will.

Erwin  

Right. So sorry. Anderson has Have you seen the new version of Soccer Academy? We’re calling it internally we call it 3.0. No, I have not. Okay. I have not seen we’ll go have a look at it. I think for sure. Yeah. Cuz it’ll. Hopefully we’ll be happy with it. Yeah, it’ll be the best version we’ve ever put it under fold. That should be fun to see. Because we actually we haven’t actually offered stock anchor Academy, the beginner bundle for a couple months now. Right. Okay. And we’re not announcing until the conference. Gotcha. That’s well, first available, but I’d love to love you to have a look at it. Yeah, for sure. Let us know your feedback. I will. Definitely. I’ll take a look at it for sure. We’ve definitely tried to make it much more comprehensive. Yeah. And a lot more beginner friendly. Just from the feedback we’ve been getting for sure. And we spend a lot more time on the stock side just like basic stocks died before we even got into like options.

Anderson  

Yeah, which which, which is very good, which is very good because it’s actually easier for somebody to understand stock trading well, when it gets in my in my head. It’s equities. But it’s easier for somebody to even visually, visually, it’s easier for somebody to see by I buy and sell, rather than going into an options chain. So yeah, that there’s a very, very positive move on your dice part that simplifies things even more for people to get into it. So yeah, that definitely will boost your your programme. Straight out the gate, I will tell you that will boost your programme, because it’s just easier, easier for people to understand.

Erwin  

I’ve noticed that because like you like for your long term portfolio, for example. You don’t need the option stuff, right? You don’t need the stock stuff. Exactly. And then, while some other surprises that will amount to the condo, wow, lovely. But you know, our speakers, Derek Foster, yes, yes. So for a long term investor, but he’s just a long term kind of guy buy and hold kind of guy. And he’s positive on the year. Yeah. Yeah. And then saying,

Anderson  

I can totally see that though. I can totally see that. Because they’re Foster is is a genius. This is his way of when I say genius, his way of looking at the markets and investing. He’s an investor not a traitor. Correct. That’s the word I use. Investing is Buffett style is very, very strategic and very, very calculated. And he’s very smart. And he’s done it for years. He’d been retired for how long?

Erwin  

almost 20 years. That’s crazy. That’s crazy. That’s crazy. But what I want people to appreciate as well is that he is retired by all definitions retire. Yeah. As he doesn’t do any work. Well, doesn’t earn any wages anywhere else. Just off his portfolio eight. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Because in the real estate context, often see people that Oh, I don’t I retired. Yeah, but the became full time real estate investors. Right, which is actually pretty busy. Yeah. You know, for many, it can be very stressful, especially these times. Yeah. Versus he’s got like, no stress. Present cash. Yeah. Right. His greatest worry is inflation is eating his money. Yeah. But that he can deploy that he can deploy that. And we both know many ways. Correct. Better to lose money. lose money to inflation.

Erwin  

So losing money to inflation, not the word. Exactly. It just looks like it’s all relative. Yeah. And we’re joking around that. Like the only winning, there’s only I think there’s only really two winning investments this year. US dollars. And oil and oil is only a slight winner this year. Everything else lost money this year. Yeah. Across the board,

Anderson  

everything went down. Everything went down, which is why being going willing to go to the short side. Correct. Is profitable as a trader. Yeah.

Erwin  

And those have been almost all my best trades this year have been short side. And totally agree. I totally agree. anyone’s ever told me there have been going bullish and making money this year. I’m like, crazy. No.

Anderson  

Unless they’re day trader, and they’re in and out. But outside of that, if you’re telling me you’re making money long, no.

Erwin  

Crazy. If you’re a trader, there’s no reason to just play one side. Exactly.

Anderson  

But if you do what we do, like you said, and you’re making money, you have to go short. So if anybody is saying that they’re going on making money, please show me, man. And I don’t think

Erwin  

anybody and you made only little correct more money to be made on the short side for this year.

Anderson  

Of course, this year has been a complete bear market, a complete the market. And as long as you know how to go short, money’s there. You know, that’s just how the stock market where money’s there. And that’s how I I mean, for me, that’s how I grew my account. And, and between that, like processes, nothing special work, put your money in the account, trade, don’t lose as much money as you profit. That’s all it is. The process is just rinsed and repeated events don’t repeated. And five vaccine for me means I started here. I started with three, I’m over 15. Now that is with working. And that is with trading.

Erwin  

Like five year old thought five years, five years ago, Anderson with a believe you’re doing what you’re doing now. Five years ago, it’s a scam.

Anderson  

I should say yes. And no. Because because I know there’s people out there making money in the stock market. I know there were I would see them on YouTube. But the difference is, is that I was like, What am I missing? Or what do they know that I don’t? That’s all it was. And then like I said, I met you and I understood, okay, if that’s what’s missing, which is understanding the stock market, educating yourself. It’s like any profession. This is what I again, I just don’t understand. You will go to school to be a doctor, lawyer, nurse, chef. You go to school for two years, but you don’t want to go take three months or four months to learn the stock market. It’s crazy to me totally crazy. Yeah. But yeah, it’s been a good ride, man. It’s for me. It’s been great. It’s fueled my vacations, it’s fueled. It’s put food on my table. It helped me to pay down debts as well. That’s another Important part two, I don’t think people, people don’t understand that what this can do for you is help you to do other stuff. paying down debt as well. Canadians are debt laden and debt laden

Erwin  

like crazy. We’re falling just following the example of our government. Correct. But what your debt laden,

Anderson  

and I’m saying that a solution to combat that on an individual person, person basis is horrible. Get a side hustle about learning to trade, humble, taking your side hustle money, or your trading profits, and you paid on that 19% credit card. Because technically, if you pay that done, you just made 90% on your year. Might we have thinking to be honest with you? Mature duck the last? Yeah, correct. But my way of thinking over the last year, I would say I’ve matured so much in understanding even how money flows, right? If anybody listened to my old podcasts, and they listen to this one now,

Erwin  

what do you recommend? October 2030? Thinking about 2021? Yeah.

Anderson  

And if you listen to that was more at the very, very beginning of my journey. And it was more about time. I’ll never forget, we were joking. Oh, you got rims on your car and edited? And yeah, that’s nice. This Anderson here

Erwin  

today, different guy, this woman 12 months, bro, 11 months different guy.

Anderson  

Because I understand the power of trading. I understand

Erwin  

that you can make money with money. Yes. That to me that the gift

Anderson  

was it was a foreign concept. Right. But when I when the light bulb went off, I was like, you can make money with money, instead of making money. And I’m not saying don’t buy nice things or whatever. But for me, I’m very picky with what I choose to buy. Now, you know, where before, if I meant for example, if I made this kind of money, back in the day, I’ll be upfront, if I made this kind of money. Three years ago, yeah. If I made this money two years ago, I’d have probably gone down payment on another car. I’ll be honest, I’ve been upfront and this is the truth about real estate. And this is a true full show me the only Aragon and don’t pay on that occur, guaranteed. I know I can make money. I know I can. And that’s a self belief to all the listeners out there, you have to believe in yourself as well. It takes believing in yourself. And it also takes you have enough conviction to know that you can do whatever you put your mind to. That’s the tip. If you guys are listening and nothing else on this whole entire podcast, please listen to this. You can do whatever you put your mind to. And once you have that dialled in, nobody, I don’t care who you are, nobody can stop you. No one. And once you learn how to, like you said to make money with money, there’s a lot of other stuff that you’ll be amazed that your eyes will get opened up. I picked it I start learning so much about and reading and even with the ABC and that to me is asked me about that a year ago.

Erwin  

You’re the way Porter for Adam Dunn,

Anderson  

you know, but it’s stuff like that using money to make money. The three buckets. I’ll simplify my day trade to fund my midterm, from my midterm to fund my long term account, three simple buckets. day trade, midterm, long term, the cycle keeps flowing.

Erwin  

So now you see your path to financial freedom. Correct. All right. Very much. So did you have that two years ago?

Anderson  

Yeah. I’ll put it this way. I did. Just not in the timeframe that I know I can do it now.

Erwin  

How much did you shave off?

Anderson  

Ah, so far, have took off about six years, six years, six years? Because I used to be way back like two three years ago. I used to be the pay the minimum on your credit card kind of guy. Mostly. Yeah. And carry a balance a couple years ago. I wasn’t educated for on that level. Right? When they say a couple of years ago, I’m talking maybe like four or five like couple of years ago. But I was of the buy it on credit card pay the minimum only and, and that’s it. Oh my and then when you get around to it, you you you pay down your your credit card whenever Damn. This is the truth about real estate. And this is the truth about me. Anybody has this is me sharing my story. And that mentality is now I shouldn’t say only changed in a year because because to be honest, that was years ago. But learning and the process from then to now. Night and day

Erwin  

because your your your past If that was quite advanced, what you’re doing? Yeah, what you’re doing now is actually more commonly only seen than rich people. Yeah.

Anderson  

Yeah. The behaviour of it. My behaviour? is that of a rich person.

Erwin  

No, no, the how you’re acting with your money. Yeah,

Anderson  

that’s what I’m saying when rich people Yeah, that’s I’m saying my behaviour is that of a rich person, where as a straight up what you’re doing before is what poor people exactly. And I was gonna say that you have to think about how to word this. If you’re not exposed to something in your life, you will never know that there is a faster path to financial freedom. So I’ll word that in this way. When you grow up, and you grow up, and you and you’re around, people that are listening rap music, and they got big rims on the car, and they got chains and, and gold chains and all this stuff and and wearing the latest fashion. And you grew up in that. And you see that? What do you automatically think that’s the wig? Right? Not the way it’s not the way and then you come across? I don’t I don’t want to insult anybody. But you come across smart people who understand how I will turn it this way the world works and how money works. And you start to learn from them. Oh, my goodness. And then people sit there and they wonder why is that guy over there? And I said on my first podcast, why is that guy over there in a nice car or in a nice house? Or he has a nice business? Or he’s building a company or he’s doing this and that and next to her and you don’t answer a question. All I did with my life was start asking questions to successful people. Or I made sure if they had a book out and looking at your setup, and you have Robert Kiyosaki right here. And you’ve got a whole bunch of books you got, oh, funny enough, you got Canadian guy becoming banker after this kind of stuff here, folks. I don’t know if you have this in the backdrop, but this year and the YouTube, they can see it correct. This hair Knowledge is power. And I’m seeing that, and it sounds cliche, but knowledge is power. And that is a difference between being poor, and being rich, or being poor and being middle class or being poor or being comfortable. And when you unlock that sky’s the limit.

Erwin  

It does sound so cliche, but it is it is. And it’s now I want to congratulate you on your success. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming in again, most appreciated, man, you’re not allowed to leave until you’re way poor with that. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I want I want to see the three panel

Anderson  

for sure. Definitely. Thanks again, for having me. I’d also like to give a quick show to a few people in our community that have helped me just open my mind to certain things. First of all, I like to shut up Larry, and Ellie, and those tool have, they’ve helped me big time in my journey, even if they don’t think they did, but me talking to them. I talked to them. Funny enough, weekly, daily. It’s funny, but I talked to them, because they have helped me to understand certain things. And without them, I would have figured it out. But they fast tracked him very. And I want to give them kudos on the show. And I want them to hear on the show that I’m very grateful for them taking the time out to be a sounding board and be a mentor for me. And I appreciate it as well. I want to thank you Erwin for giving me the opportunity again to come on your show. And also for bringing this skill as an options, person to the masses to teach them that there is something also out there to help them in their lives. And I appreciate you for that. Well, we

Erwin  

offered to everyone that interesting. I think you know that I know you’re the one that took advantage of it and ran with it. Yep, definitely. Congratulations on your success. We’re very proud of you here.

Anderson  

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Erwin  

Before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing by hundreds of other real estate investors have already then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself I got into real estate for the cash flow but with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there were forgive the cash flow reduces your risk The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more and register for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself what so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

 

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 

 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Why Whole Life Insurance Is A Great Complement To Real Estate With Jayson Lowe

I was at a conference recently which showed a video of Tony Robbins’ talk the year before, and he said something that resonated with me.

He shared how he was presented with a business opportunity and basically said they could not commit 100% of the resources needed because the opportunity would not fit his personal goals.  

My takeaway is work and investments need to be designed to suit the lifestyle you want and not the other way around.

Not to say I haven’t been guilty of living in times of imbalance, as I’m experiencing now as I’m back in the Crossfit gym.  Weights that used to be my warm-up weights are now my workout weights, and I’m plenty sore, maybe even injured, as I hobble around, LOL.

 
 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Erwin Szeto (@erwinszeto)

Going hard like Cherry and I are these days, with the Wealth Hacker Conference only a month away on Nov 12th… We’re on other podcasts, webinars etc. 

I’d like to say thank you to Elizabeth Kelly, Corey Sperle, Austin Yeh, Tom and Nick of Rock Star Real Estate, Seth Ferguson, Andrew Hines, Diana Lazaro, Coach MAG, Danielle Unsworth, John Schwenker, the list goes on for supporting us!. Especially all of you who bought ticket holders and our sponsors!

If you haven’t bought your tickets yet, I highly recommend that you do. CLICK HERE FOR THE BEST DEAL ON TICKETS TODAY.

This recession is shaping up to be the one of our generation, fear keeps climbing, and the deals are getting better, so educate yourself on what the experts are doing in real estate, stocks, insurance, private mortgages and crypto!

My investments from 2008 have tripled in price, and I’d love for everyone in our community to be successful on this dip, so make wise investment decisions to set yourself up for a comfortable retirement.

Cherry and I’s investments are generally passive and don’t take much time. We do need to visit them from time to time, and maintenance requests to come in, but my handy people and my assistant can handle them while we just write the cheques. 

My point is we’re good with this level of activity, so we can spend more time with our kids before they turn into teenagers and don’t want to hang out with us anymore.

Last week Monday was our first day at the gym working out together.  I’m having to follow the kids’ programming as I’m too out of shape for the adult workouts, and it was only when I parked the car it hit me.  

You know how you have gym buddies and then form a bond with them?  That’s what I want with Robin and Bruce.

During the run portion of the workout, I low-fived each kid as we passed each other. I’m huffing and puffing because, as always, as part of the workout, including throwing a medicine ball in the air and hanging leg raises, then back on the run, I see the kids, and they alter their path towards me to make sure to low-five me. I was suffering, so not in a good mood, but the gesture was adorable.

Most important with these family workouts is we save money as we’re on a family plan, AND save on time since this is a one-stop shop.  

I don’t know how you parents with kids in rep hockey and competitive dance keep up.  Hopefully, you’re successful investors to afford the $10,000 per year costs like our real estate investor clients are :).  

If you’re unsure how they do it, reach out to me and ask how.

Why Whole Life Insurance Is A Great Complement To Real Estate With Jayson Lowe

On to this week’s show!!

If you can’t tell, Cherry and I prefer to buy than rent because I like hard assets and being in control. 

However, I do rent some things like cottages, hotels, and cars while on vacation, as I want my life to be simple. We used to lease our cars for tax purposes, which are generally depreciating assets.

Another example of wanting to be in control is of our estate when we pass on from this world. I don’t want our staff or kids to have to sell off our businesses or properties; hence we invest in insurance to cover the taxes as the good old government will want their pound of flesh.

As we prefer to own over rent, we prefer whole life insurance over term life insurance. If you don’t know why that’s because you’re among the 99% of Canadians.  

I only learnt of the Infinite Banking Concept strategy a few years ago at my real estate mastermind, where I’m the poor person in the room. 

Several members were already applying the Infinite Banking Concept, and we even brought in an outside expert from one of the big banks to educate us on the subject. But, unfortunately, the subject was confusing until we met Jayson Lowe, founder of Ascendant Financial and co-author of “The Bankers’ Secret, a Simple Guide to Creating Personal Wealth for Canadians.” And leading Financial Professional in Canada.

Jayson being an expert in whole life insurance, including being a client of all the insurance providers in Canada alone, gives him more experience than anyone I know.

Because we own them, Cherry and I’s policies show up on our balance sheet with the banks, which they love to see; hence they’ll lend us more money. 

We can also borrow against our policies at low rates and pay it back whenever we want.  Cheap money, flexibility and control – all things I like; hence our plans in 2023 include growing our policies. 

To explain it in further detail, I give you Jayson Lowe.

Please enjoy the show!

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show. I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and me.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and, more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future, knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you, too, are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so, but for now, we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel; we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you by www.stockhackeracademy.ca, where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle, as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full-time musician who just made a 50% return in 2021.  Past, of course, does not predict the future, but if you’d like a free demonstration, go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right and click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration, I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners, and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

Erwin  

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Truth about real estate investing show. My name is Rohan Seto. And I was at a conference recently which showed a video of Tony Robbins has talked to you before. And he said something that really resonated with me how he was presented with a business opportunity. And basically he said he could not commit 100% of his resources including himself needed because the opportunity would not fit his personal lifestyle goals. My takeaway is that work and investments need to be designed to suit the lifestyle that you want not the other way around. Not to say I haven’t been guilty of living in times of imbalance as I’m experiencing now as I’m finally getting back into the gym weights that you’d be worn out weights for me are now my workout weights. I’m plenty sore, possibly even injured as I’m hobbling around going hard like Carrie and I are these days with the wall hacker conference. Let’s everything else we have going on for businesses to young kids, a figure portfolio, it all takes work and time. The wealth hacker conferences is only a month away. Number 12. We’ve been making our rounds on other podcasts webinars. And speaking at events I like to say thank you to Elizabeth Kelly Cornish Pearl Christian’s fistful of avorio Austin yay. And with the reporters podcast after this time an accredited Rockstar real estate salesperson Andrew Hines, Diana Lazaro coach mag Maya coach Marianne Glasby, Daniel Unsworth, John Shanker bliss goes on and on for supporting us, especially to all of you who’ve already bought tickets and our sponsors. If you haven’t bought tickets already, I highly recommend that you do. Tickets only go up in price as we get closer to the event. This recession is shaping up to be the one of our generation, fear keeps climbing and the deals are honestly you’re getting better as time goes. So you want to educate yourself on what the experts are doing in real estate stocks, insurance, private mortgages and cryptocurrency for example, the last time we had a real recession back in 2008, the properties I bought back then they’ve tripled in price or more. I’d love for everyone in the community to have to be as successful on this dip, make wise investment decisions, set yourself up for a comfortable retirement. Also, for those who are interested in sponsoring, we are down to like one, maybe three booth left. So if anyone considers still wants to wait to the last minute to sponsor don’t want to wait too long, just reach out to as investments are generally passive and don’t they take that much time, we do need to visit them from time to time and maintenance requests do come in, but they usually go directly to my handy person or my assistant, they can handle them, we just write the checks. Again, to keep this our investments as passive as possible, we have more fun things to do with our lives. My point is we’re good at this level of activity at this point. So we can spend more time with our kids before they turn into teenagers and they don’t wanna be around us anymore. Last week, Monday was our first day back at the gym. As I mentioned, the reason why I can’t walk anymore. I was having to follow my kids programming, as I’m doing the work that my kids are doing a class on their own. So I’ve been showing my kids class, because I’m too out of shape for the adult workouts, the adult classes, it was only when they parked the car at the gym that hit me, for those of you who have gym buddies, you know how you form a bond with them. And that’s what I want with Robin and Bruce. I hadn’t thought this far though. For example, during the run portion of our workout, I low fived each kid as we pass each other on the run, I’m huffing and puffing, as always, as part of the workout which included throwing a medicine ball up in the air several times hanging leg raises, and then running, the adults cheering I had to run more than budgets. So naturally, we’re gonna pass each other. So as I see the kids wandering back on the run, and they alter their path, they actually once they see me come out the door of the gym, they altered their path towards me. So that which to ensure that we can low five each other.

 

Erwin  

They see me suffer is actually a bit of as like getting a bit annoyed that the low fiving because I’m not in a good mood because I’m suffering. But it was really cute. Anyways, most importantly, with these family workouts is we saved money. On a family plan, we’re buying in bulk. So we’re getting a better deal from the gym. And we also save on time, which is really important to me is being efficient with my time getting my workout in, as this is one stop shop. So when winning on many levels, supporting a good local business, I don’t know. And you know, all the parents I’d speak to I’ve clients and friends with kids and rap hockey and competitive dance. I don’t know how you guys keep up because it’s so expensive and the drives are long. Hopefully all of you listening out there who aren’t our clients. Hopefully your successful investors as well gives them I understand that it’s like $10,000 per kid per rep hockey per per competitive dance. And so hopefully you’re successful like our real estate clients are. I’m not sure how you do it. But if you’re not sure how to be a successful real estate investor, just reach out ask happy to share with you our experience, how we are passive experienced investors in order to afford our kids like those who show if get till cheering I prefer to buy than rent. You know, we just talked about the gym, I’m happy to pay a gym membership, so I can rent the use of their equipment and the facilities. Because I don’t have the room for that in my house. I like hard assets and being control in general, I do rent other things like cottages, hotels, car law, vacation, and I choose not to own those things. Because I want my life to be simple. We used to lease our cars for tax purposes, as those are also generally depreciating assets. We only bought our minivan when it came off lease because it gone up in value turned into investment, unintended, unintended, other examples of wanting to be in control is of our real estate. When we pass on from this world, I don’t want our staff nor our kids to have to sell off our businesses or properties. Hence, we invest in insurance to cover the tax, the tax expense, as the good old government will want their pound of flesh when we pass on. As we prefer to own over rent, we prefer to have whole life insurance over term insurance. If you don’t know why. That’s because you’re among the 99% of teens who don’t know a lot about insurance because honestly, my I don’t even think my parents know. It’s a lesser known investment, partly because it’s generally for people who have who can afford it. And there’s not that many who can afford whole life insurance, I only learned to be what Jayson calls the Infinite Banking concept strategy a few years ago, at my real estate mastermind, where I’m the poor person in the room, and the poor person in the room. So I’m learning the most several members of my mastermind, we’re already implying this strategy. And we even brought in an outside expert from one of the one of the big banks educate us on the subject. Unfortunately, the subject is not the easiest to understand, until I met Jayson Lowe, founder of a centre financial co author of the bankers secret a simple guide to creating personal wealth for Canadians. Jayson is a leading financial professional in Canada, a leading expert. Also him being the client of all the whole life insurance providers in Canada gives him an experience that I don’t know of anyone else having. So we can speak from experience, again from being customer of all each of the different providers at the end of the day China’s policies, because we own them. The shop on our balance sheet, when we show our banks what we own our assets and liabilities, our balance sheet, banks love to see this love to see how life insurance because they treat it as collateral. And that’s an asset. Hence the lenders more money, we can borrow against our policies at low rates. And we can pay it back later whenever we want, much like a home equity line of credit, cheap money, flexibility and control all things I like. Hence our plans in 2023 include growing our insurance policies to explain it further in detail, and give me Jayson Lowe, our guest this week. And also if you prefer reading about the strategy, especially the accounting side, my lovely wife has written a blog post on the subject, how to grow a tax free investment and minimise your taxes. I’ve included a link to those blog posts in the show notes. Thank you, Jayson Lowe. Hey, Jayson, how you doing?

 

Jayson  

I’m terrific. Erwin, how are you?

 

Erwin  

Busy. But what’s keeping you busy these days? Oh,

 

Jayson  

gosh, what isn’t keeping me busy these days, we’ve got a number of operating businesses and our family group of companies and travel was picked up, which I like to some degree in and disliked to some degree. I think zoom has been a really powerful tool for connection and getting business done. It’s changed things forever, in my view, but busy travelling the country talking about becoming your own banker, the Infinite Banking concept and soon to be travelling the United States describing that process as well with our company launching there. And so it’s been really, really busy. I just got here just landed like few hours ago, and we did some recording and it’s just an honour to be here. I’ve seen the pictures. And now I’m in the studio with a live studio audience comprised of one, my teammate,

 

Erwin  

Peter, and other people have a reference point of how tall you are as well. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Six, three. I weren’t six, three. Yeah. That weren’t cherry coming in. Because again, we met you. We’ve only ever known you over zoom. That’s right. Yep. Like you are our own adviser on insurance markets and insurance. That’s correct. Yep. Yeah. And then just in this world, we’re now we’re actually seeing people in person. Yeah. I’ve had a couple of times where people say like, oh, you’re taller than I expected. And then I see people as well. You’re expected. I gave Terry the heads up on the way and Jayson is tall. I should be six to six, three. Yeah. All right. Yeah, for sure.

 

Jayson  

She’s like, No way. Yeah. And I’m a small one in my family.

 

Erwin  

Like you have some like, superstar athletes, children. No, you know,

 

Jayson  

yes. Yeah. Yeah, my kids are Oh my goodness. They’re just I can’t write every parent’s so proud of their children. Right. But I just I burst with pride. They’re amazing. They love sports. We love having them enrolled in sports, hockey, dance, basketball, volleyball, like for kids. It’s a 24/7 circus ring of sport. And we love it.

 

Erwin  

I think she brings up a lot of question. First of all expensive is not? It is

 

Jayson  

yeah, but you know It’s a worthwhile investment because it’s not just the particular sport, you know that they’re that they’re involved in, and that they’re developing some skill set around hockey or basketball, or whatever it is, it’s learning how to be a great teammate. It’s learning how to be coachable. It’s learning how to really bring out your best potential. Even on the days when you don’t want to go, there are mornings where kids, they don’t want to get out of bed and go, you know, six o’clock in the morning to the hockey rink. But when they get there, they’re there. And it teams relying on Oh, exactly. And that’s the key, right? Like your teammates are expecting you to be there. And they don’t expect you to be there slouching, they expect you to be there bringing your very best. And those are usually the best games and the best performances of the team is when think about even if you like to exercise if you like that workout. I find like myself, personally, the best workout I have is the one I don’t want to do. Because once I get going, and I get into it, I feel great. And yeah, it’s good. Yeah, I’m super proud of my kids.

 

Erwin  

And they’re, you’re pretty high level. Are they not? Yeah, AAA? And

 

Jayson  

yeah, yeah, AAA hockey and provincial volleyball. And we’ve had our kids involved in sports from a very, very early age, because we wanted them to be occupied. Right, and to be busy, and to not grow into teenagers and get involved in things that might not be a productive use of their time, you know, but yeah, it’s good.

 

Erwin  

So how important is multiple streams of income to pay for these sorts of expenses?

 

Jayson  

Oh, it’s critical. It’s critical. You know, and we were talking about this before recording the show that I work a lot. You know, I’m a workaholic. I’ve been talking about this a lot on podcasts and talking about a lot because Joe Polish of the Genius Network, he helped me understand that workaholism is a publicly accepted form of addiction. So if you have those, those tendencies, and some people wear it like a badge of honour, all I do is work. And I’m being coached on how to make those changes in my life to prioritise things that don’t involve work. And to try and not find a balance. You know, I think work life balance is just really a myth and quite elusive. But really taking quality time to have more freedom of purpose and freedom of relationships, freedom of time, and money, the money piece, once you get to achieving cash confidence, it’s a very peaceful, stress free way of life, financially when you get there. But there’s a whole lot of hard work that you have to do to get there. The key is, is don’t kill yourself doing it. And don’t neglect other aspects of your life that are really important for you to be a whole person for you to really feel fulfilled, and to be fascinated and energised. And so that’s what I’m so grateful to Joe Polish to Dan Sullivan, coaching me on that. I took a six week sabbatical last year, the longest I’ve ever been away from work since I was a foetus. And this year, this year, I took eight weeks. And had you have said to me three years ago, if you and I were sitting here and you said, Jayson, I’m taking a look into your future. And next year, you’re going to be on a six week sabbatical, I would have thought you were Certifiably nuts. Like, are you kidding? Taking that much time away from work? It seemed impossible to me. And so I faced the fear, and I did it anyway, I’m eternally grateful to Joe and Dan, for inspiring me to do that. Joe took a year off for him one full calendar year. And I was like, Okay, there’s no way I’m starting there. No, Baby steps, baby steps gradual and incremental. For some people take a weekend off. Yeah, yeah. Create free days in your life and really honour them, you know, no work, no access to work, like on my sabbatical, my teammates, they turned all my technology off. So all my passwords were changed the alarm? Get in? Yeah. So imagine if this was my office, they changed the alarm code to the office building, so I couldn’t even get in. And it was just all methods of keep Jayson away. Let him really, truly honour his sabbatical. And my team went through that sabbatical with me and the businesses grew and they’re thriving. And so you almost think, Oh, my God, like, am I needed? But that’s just a self manifested, of course, the team needs me and I need them and I would recommend it to any hard working entrepreneur. Not if but when. Take a sabbatical. Take time away.

 

Erwin  

I think I’ve even challenged the listener, for example, to write it down six weeks sabbatical. Yeah. And then start figuring how you get there. Yeah, I’m sure that you have lots of I’m sure everyone has lots of injections. I have lots of objections when I’m listening to you stop speaking about it. And it started addressing them, write them all down, write them all down. sure how you’re gonna counter them all.

 

Jayson  

Yeah, right. It’s it’s fear, right? It’s the fear of, I’m going to miss out on something or will my businesses continue to operate well, without me being there? Can I get count on my teammates, right? I say that coming from a place of, and I count on them to keep the businesses afloat. And what Dan Sullivan told me, he said, you know, the truest measure of your team’s strength is when they can’t get ahold of you. So if there’s no way for them to reach you, and they’ve got to be in problem solving mode. Wow. If you’re there all the time, you’re robbing them of an opportunity to grow. And so you said, wow, that’s brilliant. Right, right. And but yeah, I would recommend it.

 

Erwin  

I’ll share a quick tip, what I do for real estate investors, for example, yeah, one tip I have one thing that I do, for example, is my handyman. We’ve given him $1,000 Cash float. Right. So if he has something under $300, needs to take care of. Yep. He already knows. It makes a tenant happy. Yeah, he already knows to not even ask me. Right. But also, he has the cash available to be able to draw it down for a couple properties. Until he can get back to me on like, when everything you know, yeah, really don’t care. Yeah, just let me know, at the end of the month, because if needed done anyway, attendant care, my name my tenant, more important than your property taking care of.

 

Jayson  

Yeah, and it’s one or more less things for you to be thinking about and expending energy on. Right. And you’re empowering someone to do something great for a tenant, which is great for you as the property,

 

Erwin  

my customer and paid me $10,000 a year, you go right, and then just bring it up, because I brought it up, I’m brought up in a while. The tenant landlord relationship is often I think, well, the way I frame it for my clients is, if you spend $10,000 a year at a restaurant, how do you expect to be treated?

 

Jayson  

Very well? Very well. Very well. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

And so that’s how I frame my my tenant relationship with my my everyone who’s on my team. Yeah. Right. I expect him to be taken care of. Absolutely. Right. They have an issue. You need to deal with it. Yeah. And of course, you should deal with it. Because somebody has paid hourly. And there’s more money for to be made. Exactly. Exactly. And then yeah, it’s just instructing them to like, look around while you’re there. Look around for stuff that need to be fixed. Exactly. Right. me not to do it, then. Like add it to the springing schedule, for sure. Right. So Jayson, I don’t know if I told you the story. But how you ended up in our world is because the friends of mine Yep. Lots of friends of mine have sizable real estate portfolios. Yep. And it was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, from like, every lender until one of our friends shared how and one of my real estate masterminds like a high end mastermind was sharing how they were able to they were approved for three more mortgages, plus a refinance on their own principal home. Because they purchased a whole life insurance plan.

 

Jayson  

Yeah. Dividend paying participating whole life insurance. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

And then I was like, Okay, I’ve heard about this whole life insurance thing a couple times. Now that now you get paid by interest. Because any investor like almost everyone, every investor runs into a wall on financing. Yep. And then here, we have a totally legal way that opens up the door. That’s right. So but also, before we were recording, you explained to me that so my understanding, sorry, my understand is not complete. That’s why I have you on Yeah, I only generally see rich people doing this, right. But you’re telling me that anyone should be doing investing in whole life insurance?

 

Jayson  

Most definitely. Right? You know, if you if you think about dividend paying, participating whole life insurance is just a tool. And it just so happens to be the best tool to get the job done of becoming your own banker. And so when you walk into a commercial bank, and commercial bank doesn’t indicate that you have to be wealthy to be a depositor at the bank. And so it doesn’t care. Yeah, the bank, they want that capital coming in, and they want that money flowing. And so going back to your earlier point about what happened with you know, this person in your high level real estate mastermind, here’s something that so many people just don’t know, to operate as a commercial bank, you have to maintain what’s called tier one assets. And tier one assets can be comprised of gold bullion cash, and something that is aptly named Boley bank owned life insurance, and commercial banks by dividend paying participating whole life insurance contracts by the truckload. And it’s one of their best tier one performing assets because of how stable predictable reliable and all of the underlying contractual guarantees.

 

Erwin  

So pinstripe distance depositor, so this is something actually appreciates versus cash and gold big time

 

Jayson  

and it but it’s contractually guaranteed to appreciate all right, and it can’t go backwards nor

 

Erwin  

guarantees scares me and it can’t go backward.

 

Jayson  

So I was sharing with Terry earlier, the the economy recedes, cash value goes up, the stock market falls cash value goes up. The real estate cycle turns against you. cash values go up. So if you’re sitting down with a lender, and you take participating dividend paying whole life out of the equation, and the lender says Listen, you’ve hit a brick wall. Yeah, right. You’ve, you’re leveraged

 

Erwin  

to the max. Yeah, we’ve already accounted for all your gold. We’re not enough. Exactly. We’ve

 

Jayson  

looked at all of your assets. We’ve looked at your all of the ratios that we need to, to determine whether or not we can lend you another dime. Think like the banker for a second here, if the lender understands, because this is a tier one asset on their own balance sheet, right? And you sit down now as a prospective borrower, and you say, well, listen, I’ve accumulated some dividend paying, participating whole life insurance. I’ve got cash value, I’ve got a guaranteed death benefit. Well, the lender, if they’re halfway smart, which they are, the lender is going to go wait a second, you’ve got an asset on your balance sheet that’s contractually guaranteed to grow. We’re quite familiar with it, because we buy it by the truckload. God forbid if the unthinkable happened to you, there’s a tax free windfall of money, that’s gonna show up exactly when it’s needed the most, does that make you a better prospect for lending? Or worse?

 

Erwin  

Well, if people understand the probate process, then it’s gonna say something’s you’re way better, right? And but the lender,

 

Jayson  

the lender wants to find every reason to get the deal approved, right. That’s why they’re in the lending business. So if you give them another tool from your toolkit that says, Listen, this makes me a better qualified borrower. But that that really that secondary, it’s secondary to you have a policy or you have a system of policies in place, you’ve got the best tool to get the job done. But if you don’t know how to use the tool, right, you’re likely not going to turn out any good work with the tool. And in fact, you may end up breaking the tool. So you got to work with a good coach who can lead you through how to implement this process, the dividend paying participating whole life insurance contracts are just a product, becoming your own banker, the Infinite Banking concept is a process and we’re going to touch on this at the wealth hacker conference fabric to really pull that together for people where they’re gonna go, Oh, my goodness, I grasp it, I get it. I know that, fundamentally, someone, some organisation must perform the banking function as it relates to my needs. And it’s not just temporary, it’s for the rest of my lifetime. So if you’re a real estate investor, and you’re active, what you’re doing is you’re making the wheels of the banking business and the real estate business turn in that order. You’re not controlling the financing function. The process of becoming your own banker has nothing to do with rates. It has nothing to do with interest rates, rates, or return any of that. It has everything to do with how you go about financing the things that you need in life. Think of all the things that you need to finance throughout your lifetime.

 

Erwin  

Right real estate investing.

 

Jayson  

More than we’re worth, yeah, but no, but think about even as a real estate investor. It’s not just the property. It’s everything that goes on with the property, it’s unplanned vacancy, it’s bad debt, it’s new appliances, new floors, it’s our loans, well currently be its new roof, new shingles, whatever it is, the money must come from somewhere to take care of all those things. So if you can control not only how you’re financing your real estate investment portfolio, but you also have total and absolute control, over ready access to a growing pool of financial value called cash value, that increases every day and it cannot go backward. And you’re paying no tax on the daily accrual of that cash value. How much of your capital Do you not want in that entity? It’s just a logical question. And you mentioned earlier Well, you don’t The only time I ever heard about this was from wealthy people. Yeah, that should tell you everything you need to know that wealthy people

 

Erwin  

are doing. So if just to add, like my friends, Tom, and my mentors of mine, Tom in Nicaragua, they also brought this they also there you go this as well, like, okay, they’re pretty smart, too. They’re gonna keep digging into this. How long?

 

Jayson  

Here’s a question that my late mentor are Nelson Nash, who wrote the book, titled, becoming your own banker. It’s 92. page read. It’s a great book. If you haven’t read it, you have an opportunity. And Nelson asked me a question. I’ll never forget it. So we were standing inside of the the meeting room at the annual Infinite Banking Think Tank conference. And I’ve been privileged to speak there, this 2023 will be my, I think, my 11th or my 12th consecutive speaking appearance there. And Nelson said to me, he said, Jayson, I have a question for you. So we’re standing at the back of the room. There’s a speaker on the platform delivering a great talk. And he says, Jayson, I have a question for you since you’re Nelson. He said, How long do you think a skyscraper would stand on a weak foundation

 

Erwin  

with Coping With Climate Change? And I said,

 

Jayson  

No, not very long at all right? So he said, Listen, you can have all the tools, the calculators, you can have all the knowledge. But if you do not understand the ridiculous simplicity of what becoming your own banker really is, and the foundation that that represents in your financial life, you can stack as many things you’ll see investment, crypto, stocks, mutual funds, gold, you can stack all of that really high and build a really tall skyscraper but if you don’t have that strong foundation, And it’s gonna topple over. And how many people have you met in your lifetime who haven’t experienced some kind of financial setback as it relates to any of those things that I just described? Yeah. Dividend paying, participating whole life insurance. Never has been, never will be an investment. It’s a unilateral binding contract, you become a co owner of the life insurance company. And in Canada, interesting law trivia has never failed to produce a divisible profit in any year of operations since inception. And in Canada, that year is 1847. So I want you to think about all of the calamity that’s occurred the past 176 years in this country,

 

Erwin  

and to come political turmoil, the Great Depression,

 

Jayson  

COVID-19, h one n one, SARS, 34, recessions, the tech bubble bursting in early 2000. World Wars, oh, 809, world wars, you name it. And these life insurance companies continue to be the most financially solvent institutions on planet Earth, the wealthy understand as everyone, regardless of how much money you’re making, as everyone should understand, is that your money must reside somewhere. So what better place to have it reside than here? And then from that very place, you can set about achieving all of the financial objectives that you have in your life? I’ll tell you, in our family banking system, we’re going to be talking about family banking at the wealth hacker conference, plug for the conference. Have you ever heard the expression, that one decision, one decision can change the course of your life? I’m gonna have a conference come to the conference. And so being at the conference, you’re going to hear all about family banking, as a way to think about this. Oh, people should bring their significant others. Oh, yeah. Be there be there with your spouse? It’s better to hear from you than here.

 

Erwin  

I do it all the time. I can’t explain this. Cherry. I need it in the same room. Yeah. Right to be there. Yeah. And we’re going to talk about the whole get your whole team on board. Yeah. Right. So your significant other, maybe your adult children? Yeah.

 

Jayson  

Yeah. Because money, the Think about it and in simplicity, your viewers, your listeners, they’re earning income, rental income, g4 income, interest, income, dividends, whatever source of income? Is it not true that at present, all of that money is flowing through the books of someone else’s bank, I say that, again, someone else’s bank, how much of that flow of money do you want, flowing through your system versus someone else’s logic would say all of it, but it cannot be achieved overnight, is meant to be achieved gradually and incrementally over a period of years. I’m 15 years into my journey. I don’t rely upon a commercial bank for anything other than the convenience of debit, that to a real estate investor is like heaven on earth. Like that is my beliefs. That is what I can want. Like, if I don’t have to rely upon a commercial bank for anything other than the convenience of debit, I feel peaceful. I feel stress free, my net worth goes up every day, no matter what. And it can’t go in the opposite direction. It cannot go backward. From that foundation. I build my skyscraper, I buy businesses, I invest in real estate, I lend capital, all of these things that I’m able to do, because I know that that foundation, it only cures stronger every day, every single day. And so how much capital do I not want flowing to that foundation?

 

Erwin  

No sweetness all the conference? Absolutely. It’s not the easiest to understand. And I don’t fault anyone for not understanding this. Yeah. Because I read the psychology of money not long ago. And we just haven’t been that financially well off, like forever. And many Canadians, for example, if they’re a real estate investor and listening to this very often they’re the first generation ever, of their line to be successful financially. Right? So the whole idea of savings of buying large quantities of gold, or insurance is like they’re the first generation where that was ever available to right so I don’t I don’t fault anyone for not understanding this. I didn’t learn this from my parents that we had to go to and I had to learn this ourselves. Right? Our parents were poor immigrants. Right so and then my understanding that helped me with the understanding where and also there’s more than one type of of whole life insurance like Peters clarify for me for that, because I actually have a friend that bought the wrong one. Yeah, and didn’t have all these nice things available to them because he had the wrong product and it’s right there restructured incorrectly so they didn’t get all the Bankston love them, like

 

Jayson  

money and they didn’t get that maximised, rapid accumulation of cash value and so on. There’s ways to engineer a policy that would not be ideal to implement this process. It doesn’t mean that the policy is no good. It just means that it is not optimised for this process. Right? So that’s where we come in,

 

Erwin  

right? And then also, whole life insurance ever sees the short term for this. It sounds very much like insurance. As in like I see, for example, I’ve used gold. Yep. And holding cash as insurance, right? They’re not investments, right? I think like, for example, the average Canadian understands why you have a little bit of US dollars, right? It’s not an investment is for you to have available to you. Should you ever go to the states and use it? Yeah, yeah. Right. It’s insurance. So then you don’t have to be exposed? You know, what the exchange of money all the time? Right. Okay. So I have some sort of understanding. Now, you mentioned that you funnel all your money through the strategy. That’s correct. And you use it to actually buy other assets and investment. That’s right. So you use it to you mentioned lending? Yep. So can you kind of touch on that? Like, how do you how do you flow that through? So then you’re like, you’re running your own mortgages, for example.

 

Jayson  

Yeah. So we, we do a lot of bridge financing. We do a lot of private lending for

 

Erwin  

you. So you’re like a mortgage broker? That brokers these deals for you? That’s a part of it. Yeah, like we, I’m trying to think the easier model for sure. I used to Yeah, late and we,

 

Jayson  

you know, did a deal here recently where a fellow was renovating a cottage and needed some some capital and was a, you know, a great candidate for borrowing based on all of our criteria. And so we put up the capital we’re earning interest in the flow of the money is really simple. So we contact the life insurance company, and we request what’s called the policy loan, and that policy loan is unstructured. So what that means is that there’s no repayment schedule. The policy owner, in this case, me, I control the repayment schedule, the frequency of payments, the amortisation timeframe, I control that. So that puts me in a position of comfort, and it makes me feel peaceful about the whole deal. My total cash value in the policy continues rising uninterrupted by the loan. So if I look inside the policy, and the policy has $100,000, of total cash value, and I’ve got a million dollar death benefit, and I need 50,000. To lend to a borrower, I contact the life insurance company, I borrow against that 100,000 Without withdrawing anything from the policy, because cash value is not really money, it’s a value attributed to the contract. So I’m borrowing

 

Erwin  

against that, to start Jayson has that contract valued, it’s determined,

 

Jayson  

the value is determined by the guarantee that the cash value must match the total death benefit by age 100. So it all begins with the death benefit. And then the cash value follows the leader, basically. So the money comes from the insurance company by way of a phone call or submitting a loan request document, the insurance company asks two questions. Would you like us to mail you a check for? Can we electronically deposit that money into your account? I want your real estate community to just hit the pause button and rewind and listen to that again. Can you bring in all of your financials for the last 322 years and show us every penny that flows in and out of your life? And there’s none of that? Right? No lengthy nosy credit applications?

 

Erwin  

Nothing. But because the the insurance company knows what the underlying asset is, while the

 

Jayson  

insurance company that’s a good point, the insurance company itself is guaranteeing the collateral for the loan. Yeah, right. So the moment that I get that 50,000, from the insurance company in my hands, they place a lien on my death benefit for the loan balance

 

Erwin  

because they understand exactly what the underlying asset is, which is their own versus like versus typical loan is based on your ability to repay whatever collateral you’re putting out of the house, your car, you got your Bitcoin, whatever,

 

Jayson  

you got it. And so the insurance company says, Listen, we’re gonna lend you the money. It’s unstructured. So just pay it back on your terms. God forbid, if you pass away, and there’s loan balance outstanding, don’t worry about it, the death benefits can extinguish the loan balance and the remaining death benefit insurance policy pays them back. There you go. And so look, think about it from this vantage point. If you went into a lender to finance a deal, and the lender said, or when we’re happy to lend you this money, repay it on your terms never happens. And God forbid, if you pass away, don’t worry, there won’t be any indebtedness left behind, right. Oh, and by the way, we’re going to contractually guarantee that the property will increase in value every day, and I can’t go backward. You and I wouldn’t even be recording right now. You would have never even had a conversation with me. So this enables you to become the banker in your life. What does that mean? It means that you’re taking control of that function as it relates to your needs. The money flows into my hands. It’s the life insurance company’s money. It’s not Jayson’s money. Jayson’s money is growing in the policy uninterrupted. The money flows to the borrower. The borrower is repaying the loan on my terms, who’s the banker? Now? You’re the lender, the lender in both transactions, the policy loan and the lending deal. Money comes back with babies Right called interest greater than the interest rate you’re paying greater than my cost to capital, right? Because capital has to flow at a cost. What I’m doing is I’m taking capital and then putting it right back into my aquarium. So that when the next high calibre opportunity tracks me down, I have ready access capital to pounce on that opportunity, right? We’re in skyrocketing inflation, interest rate uncertainty outside of the fact that it just keeps climbing political turmoil, we know the government’s going to need more money in the future than what they need now. So we definitely know there’s going to be changes from a tax perspective. And if you look at all of those elements of uncertainty, that creates stress and pressure for people

 

Erwin  

learn lessons as part of their Yeah, because we all a lot of us think there’s gonna be more the tax rates are going to increase. Yeah, like capital gains, exemption is currently 50%, it may go up, we should all be looking for alternative investments that doesn’t have a tax liability. So

 

Jayson  

you beat me to it, the participating dividend paying whole life insurance contract, which is not an investment, it’s a unilateral binding contract. The only party that I contract that’s required to make and fulfil promises is the insurance company. And guess how often they failed to fulfil those guarantees. It’s never happened. And so if you know that, the fundamental truth that your money must reside somewhere, and you store capital inside of this entity, and you co own the life insurance company, and you know that in these economic uncertain times, opportunities of high calibre are going to present themselves. So if you need to go to a commercial bank to take advantage of that opportunity, or slower the odds change in this climate, versus somebody calls me and says, we have a distressed business or could be property, property, they need cash, and I have ready access to a growing pool of financial value on demand. And on my terms, I say that, again, I have ready access to a growing pool of financial value on demand. And on my terms, should we give it your cell phone number now I, I can take advantage of that opportunity. Immediately. I don’t have to go through the strain, right, that someone’s standing next to me does, right, who’s not practising this process in their lives?

 

Erwin  

Because most people think they just have to be holding cash, right? In order to take advantage of these

 

Jayson  

right, but where are they storing it in someone else’s caches. And so if you think about it, Nelson, and again, I can’t express the amount of gratitude that I have for my late mentor, or Nelson Nash, who, again, wrote the book titled becoming your own banker, it’s an amazing read, he would often say, when you have ready access to capital opportunities of high calibre will track you down,

 

Erwin  

through giving your cell phone number, email address.

 

Jayson  

Or when I would say to folks get in line, I get contacted daily with opportunity. And I’m blessed. And I’m very, I feel grateful for that. So Jayson,

 

Erwin  

let me pause you there. Yeah. Because beginner investors are always asking, like, where do I find deals, right? And a good way to find deals is to let your network know like your realtor, your lawyer mortgage person, if you let them know you have capital ready access, but you don’t need approvals for yet. Right? You better believe you’re on the top of their list when they when they got something good all day, every day, right versus the person that has so Oh, I gotta go gotta pre qualified. Yeah, submit all my stuff for the bank hoping for a pre approval in two weeks?

 

Jayson  

Yeah. Would you rather be in a position of total and absolute control? Of course, anyone? Anyone who possesses logic would say, Yeah, of course I want to be. But we live in an instant gratification, everything. instant food, instant coffee, you could order a parcel from Amazon, and we’ll be here before you shut the office down today. This is meant to be achieved gradually and incrementally over a period of time, right? Part of the gibberish slow process is right. I am 15 years into my journey. And if you would have told me 15 years and one day ago, that I was going to be where I am today as a result of implementing this process. I didn’t see it. I didn’t see it. It took executing it took simulating it took a commitment it took first and foremost it began with the desire the desire to change. And then going through that period of introspection where you look at all of your financial resources and you say okay, 100% of my existing financial resources are already prioritised for some thing. I’m already prioritising every penny that’s flowing through my life. If I want to begin to implement this process of becoming your own banker, the Infinite Banking concept, the financial resources are already there. It just requires a reallocation of priority. It’s not going out and creating new money where no money existed before. It’s taking existing financial resources and reallocating reprioritize and I began to do that gradually and a incrementally over a period of time. And fast forward to today we’ve got 6767 participating dividend paying whole life contracts in our family banking system. And at the the wealth hacker conference, I’m going to explain why I’m going to unpack that. And I’m going to talk about the advantages that that represents, and that how people in attendance at the conference, they can do this too. They just need to realise this isn’t something that’s going to be achieved the day of the conference. It’s going to be a period of years, years. But again, I gotta give credit to Nelson, he said, You need to be thinking three generations past your own. Because the generations that come after you are going to need the use of money as well. And not if but when you die. If you do not have this foundation in place, you’re going to trigger a pretty significant terminal tax bill. where’s the money going to come from to pay it? It’s called, it’s called liquidation. Yeah, selling off assets, right. Whereas if you want to talk about the term investment, in my humble view, the best definition of an investment is one that pays you the most, when it’s needed the most. The moment you dye those unilateral binding contracts, those insurance contracts are going to pay, it’s called a promise to pay. It’s a contractually binding, promise to pay, and that money shows up and there’s no tax bill attached to it. So now you’ve got all the capital necessary your family to take care of any terminal tax obligation, and they still get to own all of the assets, you work so hard to accumulate over your lifetime. So when you speak to someone wealthy, and you ask the question, is there anything stupid about doing that? Any wealthy individuals gonna say? No, of course not. Like, generally wealthy people have I want to buy as much of the these unilateral binding contracts as I can get my hands on.

 

Erwin  

No chair wants, I should grow bigger makeup policy bigger next year. That’s great. So actually, you mentioned 6767 policies within your own family. And we were talking before recording, I’ve been at many parties and whatnot. And people people know, I like to make money. So I don’t know. I mean, that’s why this comes up. They say to me, like, you know, you can get poppin you take out a policy and so on. And that’s how you make money. And I’ve always been like, I don’t understand. confused mind says no, right. Well, and then you tell me, you have 67 of these. This is some crazy idea. No, it’s, there’s nothing crazy about it. And this is basically what people are talking about at these dinner parties. Like did you know you can buy insurance on people? Like I can go buy insurance on them if I wanted to?

 

Jayson  

Yeah, I mean, you need to have a beneficial interest in the person that you’re insuring. But it brings up a point that we mentioned before recording around diversification. I’m hearing that all the time, especially now you need to be diversified. Okay, well, what is the root? What is the root of the philosophy behind diversification? Well, the root is you diversify, so that you don’t lose it all. And hopefully, that gives you mental peace. Is that would that be fair? You’re not gonna lose it all would give you bouquets, I’m diversifying so that I reduce the odds of losing it all. Okay, I get it. Yeah. Well, I’m diversified in lives insured. That’s my diversification. I have policies on my nieces and nephews, kids in law’s business partners, to name a few. So I’m diversified. All right. And there’s no risk of me losing it all.

 

Erwin  

Sorry, why would you take a policy on someone else? Why can you just add to your own policy?

 

Jayson  

Oh, well, you’re limited to the extent of the maximum death benefits that the underwriters

 

Erwin  

hat on the individual? Yeah, right. Exactly. Any more individuals? Yeah, just scale.

 

Jayson  

And that’s how you diversify. And I respect and I just say that in good humour. I respect people’s financial objectives. And they’ve got money scattered in a number of different things. And you’ve heard the saying, Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. I disagree with that wholeheartedly. If I control the basket, where else do I want my eggs? Like, honestly,

 

Erwin  

the only good part of that point and not putting all your eggs in one basket is most people don’t understand all the baskets,

 

Jayson  

right? And so if you if you have total and absolute control over that basket and understand everything about it, how many eggs do you have yours? Do you not want residing in there? Think about any period of time Jeff Bezos did okay with this one, but oh, you sure did. And think about points in your life where maybe you’ve lost money. And I can promise you and I’m not a gambler. But if I was to if I was to bet, I would say that it had something to do with you handing control of that money over to someone else, more often than not. And this foundation of becoming your own banker, the process. It helps you to understand that regardless of what’s happening in the economy, with interest rates, with inflation, etc. The process of banking goes on no matter what. So who is the banker in your life? It can and it should be you so that through periods of time, like we’re experiencing right now You can rest easy knowing that your net worth is going to be larger tomorrow morning than it was when you went to bed. Not because you’ve got some, you know, secret code to crack there and share with people and hey, you know, come by my my stuff, and I’ll teach you how to do all this. It’s because you’ve taken control of this financing function as it relates to your needs. That’s the essence of becoming your own banker. The insurance contracts are just a tool. They’re just a tool. But I’ll tell you, it’s been the best tool I’ve ever owned. I’m not really like, I don’t do handiwork and things like that. It’s not part of my unique ability. But this is the best tool I’ve ever I’ve ever owned.

 

Erwin  

And your your experience isn’t alone, especially right now. Oh, gosh, we were chatting earlier this week. And you’re telling me all these clients, here’s their balance sheet. This is the only thing that’s green.

 

Jayson  

Exactly. Yeah, clients are contacting us literally daily. And they’re saying listen, like, we heard you shouting from the rooftops, when we were in the lowest interest rate environment we’ve ever experienced when gaining access to capital was no more difficult than it would have been getting a gumball out of a gumball machine.

 

Erwin  

And everything. Yeah,

 

Jayson  

everything. sunshine and roses. Yeah. And we heard you screaming from the rooftops? Not if but when we start experiencing what we’re experiencing right now. Your policy values can only continue to go up, and people are contacting us and saying, Look, I’m taking a look at the balance sheet. And this is the only thing on my balance sheet that keeps increasing in value outside of the fact that I may have some pennies put away in a savings account somewhere. It’s what a peaceful, stress free way of life it is. When you get the bankers out of your life.

 

Erwin  

Speaking of stress, there’s people out there including some of our clients who are who have no more access to lenders are saying no. Yep, is not getting a whole life policy going to help them

 

Jayson  

all day long, all day long. And the longer you wait, the more you penalise yourself.

 

Erwin  

It’s kind of crazy, because for example, part of the reasons why a lot of us invest in real estate is well the bank would give us cheap money on it. Yep, the cheapest money for this. So there must be something good about owning real estate. Oh, for sure. You’re talking about that this is categorised, this is grouped in the same category as gold. In terms of all water all value?

 

Jayson  

Well, hey, let me let me share it to let’s talk about collateral value, sir, when I’ll put you in the driver’s seat as a policy owner, okay, so you’ve got a policy, and it’s got a million dollars of total cash value, it’s got a death benefit of $2 million. I’m just picking arbitrary numbers. And I’m putting myself in the position, the driver’s seat of owning a piece of property. So I own a piece of property free and clear. It’s unencumbered. And it just got appraised that wouldn’t you know it a million bucks. Now you and I decided to go to lunch together, but our lunch break is going to go to the bank. So we go to the commercial bank, and you and I sit down and the commercial banker says Irwin, we’d be more than happy to give you an operating line of credit or just an advanced loan. And we’re going to lend to you a million dollars. You can capitalise the interest and just wipe out the balance when you die. Or you can make repayments at your convenience, and Irwin’s going Wow. Thank you, fantasyland area. And then I say, Well, what about me, I have a property that’s unencumbered, it just here’s the appraisal, it’s been appraised at a million bucks. Well, we’re gonna have you sit down with a Loan Manager. And if you can clear your schedule for the afternoon, we’ve got documents for you to fill out and a process for you to go through called qualifying. And presuming that you do qualify will extend to you a home equity line of credit for 650,000. Now, if you want to bump this up to 80% loan to value, it’s going to be a principal and interest mortgage for the balance. So you’re going to do things on our terms. What does that tell you about the strength of the asset in the eyes of the lender very different, night and day, night and day.

 

Erwin  

And if you don’t have a job, you’re you don’t know how to get in that mortgage? Not a chance.

 

Jayson  

And so I guess in simplicity,

 

Erwin  

sorry, I don’t have to have a job either. You’re telling me the commercial, commercial bank and what just give it to me.

 

Jayson  

If you don’t have a job, the commercial lender will likely get you to about 75% loan to value all right, no qualifying. above that. You can’t be insolvent or pending insolvent. You can’t have derogatory credit. There’s still criteria you’re borrowing from someone else’s bank, the VA, the flexibility and the control. Just how would it make I’m speaking to you now the viewer, the listener, how would you feel being in a position of total and absolute control financially as it relates to opportunities that are tracking you down whatever financial objectives you have, that you want to set about to achieve? If you’re in a position of total control? It’s very peaceful. very peaceful. Isn’t that good?

 

Erwin  

And the folks who say who say they have life insurance?

 

Jayson  

Do they have the same benefit? If they only have temporary insurance like term life insurance, they would not have that same benefit, because you’re only renting the benefit.

 

Erwin  

In term insurance. Life insurance is generally mean term insurance. Yeah, people purchase, I would say like 95% of people who say they have life insurance, it made it really determined.

 

Jayson  

Yeah, yeah, I would say it’s so common, and

 

Erwin  

especially if it’s via their company benefits. Oh, yeah, that always isn’t.

 

Jayson  

Yeah, it’s group employment benefit, which is, which is different. But if you look at it from this perspective, here’s another interesting bit of trivia, if you take out term life insurance, which has a purpose, it’s it, obviously, but if you’re renting the benefit. So if I could get you a million dollars a death benefit for 35 bucks a month, and you were life insured for the next 10 years? What do you think the odds are of you dying in the next 10 years, hopefully not good. The insurance company, if they thought you were gonna die during that 10 year window, then they’re making a really lousy bet by only collecting 35 bucks a month in exchange for a promise to pay a million. That’s why less than 2% of Term Life policies ever pay out a death benefit? Oh, so three, four returns? Well, but think about it. It’s a great return for the life insurance for them. So if you if you’re a dividend paying participating whole life insurance policy owner, you co own the life insurance company. So that’s a great return for you as a co owner of the business, isn’t it? At least you benefit off of? It creates an enormous cash float. And what do you do with cash float?

 

Erwin  

Right? You multiply it? So instead of renting, you’re getting some equity. Old from day one? Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t that good?

 

Jayson  

So real estate investors. I love equity. Right? It’s a match made in heaven. And

 

Erwin  

the analogy often I often make is like, if you don’t like but the price you’re paying for gas at the gas pump. We got a Tesla, but you know, buy some shares in the gas company. Buy some Suncor? Yeah, exactly your pay, the more you’re making. Yeah, exactly.

 

Jayson  

And, you know, as it relates to, if you just think about investing in stocks, my own personal experience is, and this may sound a little corny, but it’s the honest to goodness truth is I took a look inside my pantry, I took a look inside the fridge, I took a look inside the medicine cabinet. And I just literally looked at all the products that I consumed, no matter what’s happening in the economy, or with inflation or anything. So am I going to keep shaving as inflation skyrockets? Yeah. Am I going to, you know, continue eating cereal yet? Am I going to and so on? Do I keep powering on this device? Yeah, well, I wonder who makes the components that puts us together your iPhone, right. And so that was just my ridiculously simple approach to it. And it’s worked out incredibly well. And not because I knew how to time a market. But because I knew that I was thinking long range as it related to the consumption of these goods and services, and then take all the dividends from owning those stocks and reinvesting it in more stock, and it just grows and grows and grows. where I’m going with that. I do not know on any given day, what the value of that stock portfolio is gonna be what I promise you, I know on any given day with the value of all my participating dividend paying whole life contracts are today and what they’re going to be tomorrow. And the day after that. And the day after that. And so on. diversification, yeah, well, for me, it’s it wasn’t an either or.

 

Erwin  

Oh, no, it should be it was and yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the both the wealthier you get, and the more education one gets, the more diversified they are.

 

Jayson  

I think so. Yeah. For me, I try to stick to what I know,

 

Erwin  

will add to that something we were talking about before is you and I were discussing. So to give some context, statistically, we’re living longer than ever. That’s right. Yep. COVID-19 was the first time that we actually regressed in our increasing life expectancy. That’s right. We’re wealthier than ever. Yeah. Even with this correction we’re having we are still Yeah, we are. We have a blip right now. But still, generally, we are wealthier than we were in 2019. Yep. Yeah, I would argue mental health is probably one of the worst it’s ever been.

 

Jayson  

Yeah. Yeah. People are really, really suffering. And one of the

 

Erwin  

lessons I’ve seen a lot of real estate investors take is they understand most of them are active. Yep. Many of them have exited. And now they’re not now they’re looking where to put that money. Right? Not only where they’re looking to where they put that money, but generally I find they’re looking for more passive. Yep. more peace of mind. Yeah. less wear and tear on their mental health. Oh, God. So where would this fit on the spectrum?

 

Jayson  

Okay, well, let’s just check a few boxes. Okay. We have contractually guaranteed daily cash value accumulation checkbox. We attract no tax on that daily accrual. Oh, that’s big saving. Check the box. The policy is exempt from the passive investment income tax rules. Check the box. We have an ever increase Seeing total death benefit of which the total cash value must grow to match, check the box, we have ready access to capital on demand on our terms, check the box. When we borrow against that accumulation, we’re not interrupting it. So now the real estate investor in that example, who has liquidated and they have this enormous stockpile of cash. The truth is, is that the money must reside somewhere. If you store it on the books of someone else’s bank, then you’re enriching someone else’s stockholder. If you store it on the books of your own system, you’re building your own warehouse of wealth, and it’s indestructible. So you pour this strong foundation to go build your next skyscraper that’s actually going to stand and can’t fall over. And from that very place, you can do all those things financially that you set about to do. And we find, at least in our experience, and we deal with real estate investors coast to coast, is that once they catch this, they know exactly what to do. They want to get as much capital flowing through this tool as possible, understandably so.

 

Erwin  

And then Jayson, something kind of unsettling the same lines. Part of my own education in this area was I had questions for you. Yeah. Because there’s a couple of vendors that offer similar products, right. And you told me that you actually have money with all of them. That’s right. So you’ve sampled everyone’s services and products? Absolutely. Because what I found is when people find out what which one I which company I went with, they always have like negative things to say about some positives and negative, often negative. But I found the same shoe with my choice of cars. Yeah, like I used to drive. I drove a BMW for 10 years. Yeah, lots of people didn’t like BMWs. Now Tesla, and like, even more polarising. Yeah, totally cool. Tell me, how would have been a terrible choice it is and how bad for the environment? That is? Yeah. But again, you’ve sampled everything. That’s right. Because we weren’t me. I imagined we weren’t everyone out there. Yeah. And

 

Jayson  

the only reason I did it is because I wanted to speak from a place of authenticity, right? Not from opinion, you’ve put your money in everything precisely. And I wanted to go through that journey, as a customer. Because at ascendant financial, we want to be continually developing a deeper understanding of what exactly it is the clients we have, and the clients we want to have truly value. And then we will not put them in any situation where they’re not getting what they truly value, right. And there’s a lot of great companies without running an advertisement for any one particular life insurance carrier in the country. There’s a lot of great carriers in the country, not all of which are suitable for a great client experience as it relates to what we’re talking about. And so it’s okay, it’s okay that people have different service offerings. Oh, yeah, for sure. And for me, it was just, I want to be able to speak to this from a place of authenticity. It’s like, I’m a customer of all these carriers. So I can speak firsthand, and share fact. Right, right. There’s everybody has an opinion, which you’re entitled to, that’s fine. But I will say that many years ago, I’m speaking to 2011 To be precise. Nelson Nash said to me, my very first Infinite Banking Think Tank conference. He said, Let me ask you a question. If you’re dealing with a Mutual Life Insurance Company, that means that they’re not publicly traded, there’s no stockholders. Is that private? Yeah. Technically, yeah. Yeah. Because you’re not on the government’s public. Right. The government doesn’t know that you have those contracts in place. You’re it’s private, private contract, check, check the box. When you request a policy loan, is that a private loan arrangement between you and the insurance company that you call? Yeah. If you have a board that looks after the day to day operation of this insurance company, and they have no one else to be responsive to except for you, and every other participating policy owner, right?

 

Erwin  

Because you are the owners? Right? Right. Is that an event customers are the owner you got it. Somebody you care about? The owners, they tend to be the customers? Exactly. He said,

 

Jayson  

Now let’s contrast that with a stock company very different. You have a board that is responsible, primarily, first and foremost, before any other human being on the planet,

 

Erwin  

the stockholder. So examine themselves to

 

Jayson  

immediately you’re dealing with a distinction that needs to be well understood. It’s not that one company is bad and the other one is good, and all the noise that you can hear out there, which is just all a bunch of nonsense. All I know, is that if I’m dealing with a company, I have a private contract, my dealings are private. The board is only responsible to fulfil the mandates to me and to every other participating policy owner. When a divisible profit is to be distributed. The sole beneficiaries of that divisible surplus are the owners. 100% of the owner owner’s equity belongs to the owners, not stockholders. There’s a reason why Nelson said in his book, ideally, you want your contracts to be placed with a mutual company. That’s what he meant by it as a mutual beneficial. Mutual meaning no stockholders. Yeah. Private. They truly our customer first big time. And there’s no

 

Erwin  

other button there shouldn’t be any the bias. Exactly. Motivation. Exactly.

 

Jayson  

And so in Canada, we only have one option. And that so you have your contracts. And again, other people, like other ones is totally cool. Oh, that’s fine. Yeah, people can write, they can store their money wherever they choose. But the advantages of being a mutual, co owner of a Mutual Life Insurance Company, are incalculable. Interesting, really,

 

Erwin  

Christians have been hurt. Is that my policy that they say it’s expensive, but I’m the equity owner compared to what I don’t know. They seemed like Commission’s are high or something but whatever, compared to what I don’t know.

 

Jayson  

Yeah, you know, that that’s just have you ever flown in an aeroplane with noise cancellation headset? My own and you know how beneficial that

 

Erwin  

is? There’s kids chrome three, my kids, you gotta you have to

 

Jayson  

have the ability to to note that noise, I pay no attention to it whatsoever. Equitable, being the company that we’re talking about, again, without running an advertisement on any particular life insurance company. All the carriers in Canada that provide dividend paying participating whole life insurance have a great track record. They really do. From a mutual perspective. There’s only one. And so if there was more than one choice, then I would be evaluating an alternative choice. But presently, there’s only one. And so far, so great. And so far, so great meaning since 1936. I mean, it’s just, it’s been a little while.

 

Erwin  

Jayson, we’re running out of time. Why thank you so much for coming in. Or looking forward to your talk. Thank you. I think more than ever, people are looking for boring. It’s funny, because for the longest time, everyone was in real estate for boring. Yeah. And then when it got easy to make money, people got adventurous. Yeah. And now we’ve come back to the way boring is winning these days. Yeah. And it sounds like doesn’t get more boring than this. If you’re lumped in with gold.

 

Jayson  

God, it’s I shared with you before we hit the record button. It’s it’s like right up there with watching paint dry and grass grow.

 

Erwin  

I think people would love right now. Oh, for sure. Like,

 

Jayson  

I rest easy knowing that my pool of financial value continues growing daily, and it cannot go backward. Right. And I’m attracting no tax on that daily accrual. What more? Could I ask for? Like, I mean, that’s a very peaceful, stress free way of life. And eventually, when you get into the human condition of greed, or you’re in a market environment, where everybody thinks they’re mortal and unstoppable and and then I’m talking to my bitcoin portfolio, right? It’s like Mike Tyson says, right? Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face, especially by him. And so I haven’t had a single client call me once in 15 years to say, Jayson, I’m really frustrated that my cash values keep rising every day. It’s really frustrating me, I’m really bothered that I have ready access to capital to take advantage of a high calibre opportunity. No one has ever said that to me. Yeah, people are relieved, they’re relieved that they got started in their journey years ago. Right and the best time to get started for people who are viewing and listening is once you have clarity, get clarity on the process, make sure your questions are answered. Make sure that you’ve got a great plan in terms of how you intend to implement it. I work with a great coach and we pride ourselves on having the best coaches burnin if Nelson were still alive today, he would attest to that. And we just love what we do. And we love working with our clients and supporting them and coaching them and 15 years into our journey. We’re more excited now than we’ve ever been. So because of me coming up in this journey, I didn’t experience soaring inflation. Until now. I didn’t experience skyrocketing interest rates until now. And so to be able to live through this peaceful, stress free, oh my god, you can shield yourself too. From the next whatever it is that’s going to impact you financially. The longer you wait, the more you penalise yourself. So stop waiting, come out to wealth hacker come up with a conference. Get a copy of our Nelson Nash’s book titled becoming your own banker, believe me, you’ll be glad you did. We’ve released our first book in a series Canadians guide to building wealth without risk. This is the first in a series every quarter a new book is coming. And it’s just an honour to be here with you. Thank you for having me.

 

Erwin  

Thank you, Jayson. And you’ll have copies of the book on hand at the conference. I

 

Jayson  

believe it. Yep. And a huge booth. Ypres, Jayson that you mentioned earlier that opportunities are coming to you. Yep. Can you comment on how are they are they getting better or worse, right in this current climate much better. Yeah, because people are motivated the other one out from the deal. They were in a lot of business, in particular coming my way in terms of companies that are just distressed, they need financing capital, they need leadership, they need help. And so I get tapped on the shoulder all the time. I turn away far more opportunity than I move forward, like

 

Erwin  

nine out of 1095 at 100 U turn away.

 

Jayson  

Oh, man, that’s a really good question. I’ve never really characterised it in terms of ratio

 

Erwin  

in this client, especially, you know, the the same hell yes or no? Oh, it’s gonna be a hell yes. Yeah. If I wanted to choose from if

 

Jayson  

I’m not familiar with what exactly it is that you’re talking about with me, I’m out. I don’t care how good the deal is. I have to have a level of familiarity. Otherwise I’m, I won’t participate. Right.

 

Erwin  

So those people at this cocktail party saying I should buy insurance on people, they were right.

 

Jayson  

Yeah, they actually. They were I mean, you’ve got to take care of yourself first. It’s much like when you get on an aeroplane I, you know, I flew here today and the stewardess says, Listen, in the unlikely event that something goes sideways, oxygen masks will drop from the ceiling. Make sure you put yours on first before helping someone else. It’s the very same as it relates to this. Take care of addressing your own needs first, and then expand that to other people in your family. Your Business both. Awesome. Isn’t that good?

 

Erwin  

Can’t wait. I was

 

Jayson  

fine. All right. And thanks to our studio audience, the one person my teammate, Peter, who’s here. Appreciate you. Thanks, David. We’re awesome. Thank you. Pleasure. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

Before you go, if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow. But with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there. Forgive the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more, but it’s true for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself with so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell me I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android
 

For priority access to Jayson and his team go to:

 

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 

 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Sept. Market Update: Detailing Deals in Belleville, ON. With Coach Stephen

Welcome to the Truth About Real Estate Investing show, where we talk to real people with real results, and we reference-check guests before coming on the show!

Funny thing about reference checks, as a benefit of being one of the old farts of the investment real estate community since 2008 when I joined REIN and attended hundreds of other networking events, I’m lucky to have many friends in the community hence reference checking is easy as making a phone call. 

Another benefit of my advanced age is I’ve seen many investors and investments come and go, including when many lost their shirts in 2009. 

I know many of those investors personally, and their lessons will always stay with me and be shared with our coaching clients. Yes, my team at iWIN Real Estate are licensed real estate professionals who provide coaching services to our clients.

For all you budding Realtors out there who want to service investors, in my experience, the sooner a client is successful in renovating and/or renting out their property, the sooner they buy their next property and send referrals.  It’s just good business to have lots of successful investor clients.

I remember back in 2008, during the financial crisis, we were worried about the recession. Major banks in the US were going bankrupt then the news got worse, a tenant in our duplex gave notice they were moving out.

This was early in our investing journey, and without a mentor, or coach, we thought we were in trouble, but we posted our ad on Kijiji, and the interest just poured in.  After a week of showings, we had four applications; three were super solid. 

What we learnt from that experience is when people can’t get a mortgage, this was the credit crisis after all, plus a devastating crash in the financial markets, fear was at a high, and there were more tenants as people still needed a roof over their heads.

As we were rather novices, we actually asked for a $200 cash or certified deposit to accompany the rental application, which people provided. 

We did away with this process as it became a pain to return the money for declined applications…

In the end, our fear was for nothing, we signed a great tenant at a higher rent than the previous, and we had no other vacancy in our portfolio.

Our biggest regret is we only bought one house during that recession which barely put a dent in the market with rates still being low and immigration so strong.  

We could buy bungalows those days under $200k in our target markets which would sell for over 600k even pre-pandemic.

Our strategy survived that generation’s recession, and we’ve only improved upon it since then if this market keeps going down for the next 6-12 months, I welcome the opportunity to buy for cheaper as Canada, and the golden horseshoe still offers us tremendous opportunities. This may be our best and last opportunistic dip in the markets.

What to buy on the dip? 

With economic winter upon us, I’ve asked all our special guest speakers to speak on the subject at our upcoming Wealth Hacker Conference on Nov 12th, 2022, at the Toronto Congress Centre. 

For example, our stocks expert Derek Foster who is net positive on the year and holding 60% of his portfolio in cash, is waiting for a bottom to back up the truck to buy boring stocks.  

Derek nailed his picks back in 2020: Suncor, Enbridge, Berkshire, Disney, etc. I can’t wait to grow my income stream from Stock Hacking.

Dalia Barsoum of Streetwise Mortgages, a financial wizard, has a brand new presentation to detail a beginner to advance an investor’s journey to maximize mortgage ability while weathering an economic storm like the one we’re in.

Jordan Anderson, COO of Bitbuy, Canada’s largest and first registered crypto exchange.  Jordan tells me he’d rather buy cryptos on the dip than an investment property. 

We’re like complete opposites, but I can’t deny the future of blockchain and decentralized finance and want more education on the subject from one of Canada’s leading experts in crypto and blockchain.

All this and much more. www.wealthhacker.ca for details and my discount code for you is the five-letter word “truth”. 

If you want the truth about where the world is going, what the experts are investing their own money in and when, and how to avoid financial devastation, then the Wealth Hacker Conference is for you!

On a personal level, Cherry and I had our first quarterly one-on-one meeting with no electronics or screen time with the most important stakeholders, investment partners, and business partners in our lives.  Our kids, Robin and Bruce.

At Robin’s request, Cherry took Robin to a pottery class, followed by a manicure and pedicure.  At Bruce’s request, I took him to a video arcade called Dave and Buster’s, followed by virtual golf. I don’t think I got it right as I failed to budget enough time for dinner as we didn’t end up eating till 8:30 pm but done is better than not done, and we’ll get it right next time.

The kids had a blast and can’t wait for the next quarterly meeting. 

Robin has already requested I take her to Lego Land as she’s never been, and that’s what we’ll do. 

For me, putting my phone away is difficult to do as I’m a serial multitasker but quality time with the kids while they still want to hang out with us is short.

A good friend of mine warned me his 12-year-old daughter flipped like a switch. She refuses to be seen in public with him and shares how their text message exchanges consist of the daughter asking for money to go to Starbucks with her friends. 

If you would like to do some reading on the subject of scheduled quality time with the kids, I recommend “the Family Board Meeting” by Jim Sheils, who happens to be a super successful real estate investor in Florida. Link in the show notes: https://www.amazon.ca/Family-Board-Meeting-Connection-Children-ebook/dp/B07GJ6SQYX

Once the conference is over, I will be booking quarterly meetings with my mom, dad, brother and sister as well.  Date nights, too, with Cherry!

Enough from me, on to this week’s show!

Sept Market Update: Detailing Deals in Belleville, ON. With Coach Stephen

Our Market update two weeks ago with Coach Tammy DiTomaso was a hit. 

FYI to our 17 listeners, the vast majority of real estate investors are investing as a side hustle. 

The truth about real estate is the folks who successfully make full-time careers as investors are a small minority.  

I remember asking a mortgage broker friend who focuses on investors tell me only 1% reach 10 or more properties.  That number has gone up a lot since then, but my point is, do what’s right for you. 

No need to compare yourself to folks with hundreds of doors.  

The other truth is several investors are in financial distress right now who were over-leveraged and had challenges executing their flips or BRRRs of simply speculated and can no longer afford their investments at the current interest rates.

Boring, cash-flowing starter homes is the bread and butter of our team since 2010.  

Starter homes with renovations to increase cash flow, such as basement suite conversion or student rentals, worked pre-pandemic and still work in this declining market hence we have Coach Stephen Phillips to talk about the towns east of the GTA in terms of the deals and the numbers behind what properties investors are buying right now in today’s market that make sense.

Coach Steve has extensive experience in real estate, having owned and operated a kitchen and countertop business.  Their stuff was so nice they caught the attention of HGTV’s Scott McGilvray, and his business was part of 20-something episodes on Scott’s shows. 

Steve grew up in the Durham area, East Greater Toronto Area and now focuses on the areas East in the investor-friendly towns from Oshawa and Kingston but primarily the sweet spot of Belleville.

The most common request we receive from new clients is “I want a deal,” so as a service to you 17 listeners, we’re here to provide context to what a deal looks like, so have your pens, paper, and spreadsheets ready as we’ll talk to current opportunities and the analysis behind them.

Please enjoy the show!

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show. I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and me.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and, more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future, knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you, too, are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so, but for now, we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel; we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you by www.stockhackeracademy.ca, where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle, as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full-time musician who just made a 50% return in 2021.  Past, of course, does not predict the future, but if you’d like a free demonstration, go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right and click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration, I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners, and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

Erwin  

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Truth about real estate investing show. My name is Herman Seto where we talk to real people with real results, repeatable results, and me reference check our guests before they come on the show. Funny thing about reference checks is as a benefit of being one of the old farts of the real estate investing community since about 2008 When I joined rain and since then I’ve attended hundreds of other networking events including masterminding with many of the top investors in Canada, I’m lucky to have many friends in our community. Hence reference checking is very easy. It’s often just one phone call away. Worst case a text message way. And on the benefit of being at my advanced ages, I’ve seen many investors and investments come and go including many who lost their shirts in 2009. Some are no longer invest some were able to persevere and I share these lessons with our coaching clients. Yes, we have coaching clients at my team, that when real estate team we are licenced real estate professionals who provide coaching services to our clients in acquiring investment property. For all you budding realtors out there. I know there’s many of you among our 70 listeners, those of you who want to serve as real estate investors as clients. In my experience, the sooner a client is successful, and that usually means renovating and or renting out their property as soon as they have their tenant and rent coming in. The sooner they buy their next property and send referrals. Is this a good business practice to have a lot of successful investor clients. I remember back in 2008, during the financial crisis, when we were worried about the recession, major banks in the US were going bankrupt, you know, Bear Stearns or Morgan Stanley. And then the news got worse for us personally, a tenant in our duplex gave notice they’re moving out. We were so concerned because this was early in our investing journey. I know you veterans all laughing right now because you love tenant turnover these days. But back in those days, we didn’t have any mentors. There were no podcasts, the Internet was pretty weak in terms of getting information data, we had no mentor no coach, we had no veteran leadership to lean on. We thought we were in trouble. But we still went to the cycles, we posted our ad on Kijiji, and the interest is poured in. After a week of showings, we had four applications three were crazy solid. Now four applications doesn’t sound like a lot. But understand. We didn’t really know what we were doing back then. So we actually made this novice move where we asked for sorry, we required 200 cash or certified deposit of $200 to accompany and rent application or otherwise we wouldn’t review it. Sadly, we had to do away with this process because it became a pain to return money for declined applications. You know, come pick it up like no, we can just send it to me like it’s cash, I can’t just send it to you.

Erwin  

What we learned from this experience is that when people can’t get a mortgage, such as 2008 2009, as it was the credit crisis, after all, plus a devastating crash in the stock markets, fear was at an all time high. But at the same time, people still needed a roof over their heads. And we had in our situation our rent actually went up and we had a better tenant. So we were better off for the tenant going away, giving us notice and for the financial crisis in terms of owning a rental property. So yeah, in the end, fear was nothing lesson learned. Our biggest regret. My biggest regret from those days was we only actually bought one house during that recession, which in that also in that recession barely put a dent in the real estate market back then this is these times were very different rates were still quite low at the time. And immigration was just so strong, we could buy back then we were talking about 2008 2009. We could buy a bungalow in those days for under 200 grand in our target markets, which now sell for well over 600,000. And that’s even pre pandemic. So we remove all the pandemic pricing, remove all that volatility prices more than tripled. But keep in mind, we typically only put down 20%. So that would have been like a 15 times return 15 times return on money in 10 years. I don’t think it will happen again. But I would take it gladly over the next 10 years. If it happened again, our strategy has survived that generations recession. And we’ve only improved upon our investment practices since and if this market keeps going down for the next six to 12 months which occurred, it might bounce back within six months, and we may hit bottom in six months, no matter what I still welcome the opportunity to buy for cheaper prices. Because to me, Canada and the Golden Horseshoe still offers a tremendous opportunity. And this may be our last and only opportunistic dip in the markets for this generation for the next 10 years. So if you want to buy on the dip, economic winter is upon us, I believe a time of recording this. We have a technical recession in the United States. And as such, I’ve asked all of our special guest speakers at the upcoming wealth hacker conference on November 12. To be sharing all their best practices on how to weather storms. And if you speak to any of them, they’re already buying the dip. No different than our clients know wealth. hacker.ca November 12 for details at the trunk Congress Centre live in person only. So that’s near the airport. Plenty of free parking. For our stock expert for example, Derek Foster, he’s net positive on the year, stock markets down about 20% I think on the year, I think Apple is down more than 17%. This year, I never thought Apple would go down. So some great companies are down on the air. Derek foster as an investor is positive on the year, if you can believe it. He’s also reduced more of his holdings due to cash. And he’s waiting for the bottom to backup the truck and buy more boring stocks. When I had Derrick as a guest speaker at one of our stock hacker meetings back in mid 2020. Derrick shared with us his picks which were This is advice folks, and this is steeped in history. This is back to mid 2020. So his picks are not coming near the same thing as they do today as they did back then right after the pandemic crash. Derek’s picks were really basically nailed it. He is picking companies like Suncor and bridge Berkshire Hathaway, Disney etc. And I can’t wait to put some my cash back to work and build me another stock hacking stream. Another six figure stream via stock hacking, if you follow along with Terry and I will be talking more about it is we’re looking to increase our passive income and in terms of passive income, I mean cash, our dividends and my life just like Tim Collins, and last month’s episode, last week’s episode, if you didn’t hear that Tim Collins generates over $10,000 a month in dividends a month. I think we could all use more cash in our pockets each month is Dahlia Barsoom streetwise mortgages is an author. She’s a financial wizard, and has a brand new presentation to detail a beginner to advanced investors journey in order to maximise marketability while and of course, the strategy this journey would weather an economic storm like the one we’re in, more importantly, or just as importantly maximise mortgage ability. Jordan Anderson, Chief Operating Officer bitbuy, Canada’s largest and first registered crypto exchange, Jordan tells me that he’d rather buy Kryptos on the dip than an investment property, we’re on completely different ends of the spectrum. Obviously, we have different expertise and different education and different comfort levels. My opinion on crypto and blockchain is I can’t deny the future including decentralised finance, and I want more education on the subject. And I can’t honestly find someone better to teach this subject then John Anderson, he is an absolute leading expert imitating crypto and blockchain space. And then once we have much, much more at while hacker.ca Of course, chair now we’re speaking, we’re talking about our insurance investments as well, as well as something that’s all new in terms of retirement planning, something we’ve never spoken about before. But it’s something we spend more time thinking about and planning for ever since this lovely pandemic is so detailed that wealth hacker.ca My discount code for you is a five letter word truth. I want you to have the truth, where the world is going, what the experts are investing their own money in and when the when is almost just as important and how to avoid financial devastation. If you want to learn all these things while hacker conference is for you onto a personal level. Chairman I had our first quarterly meeting one on one no electronics no personal electronics or screen time with the most important stakeholders, Investment Partners business partners in our lives. Our kids Robert and Bruce they’re eight and seven years old respectively. at Robins request cherry pick Robin to a pottery class followed by a manicure and pedicure. Thank goodness that wasn’t me. I don’t like people touching my feet.

Erwin  

Purses requests I took them to a video arcade called Dave and Busters followed by virtual golf. I don’t think we got it right as I felt a bit budget enough time for dinner. And for us to chit chat as we didn’t end up eating dinner until around 8:30pm. So it was like Rush, rush rush right before bedtime. But Done is better than not done. We’ll get it right next time. As like, you know, allow time for a proper sit down dinner. Just us to chit chat. The kids had a blast and can’t wait for the next quarterly meeting. Obviously we have to do each kid each quarter. So it’d be two nights, two nights for me each quarter cemetery. Robin has requested that I take her to Legoland, and she’s ever been the one Vaughan Mills Of course not the one in Orlando I think it is. And that’s what we’ll do. It’s her choice. What we do. For me putting my phone away is difficult as I’m a serial multitasker and my phone is my is I don’t know, remember the term Crackberry when people refer to blackberries. Yeah, my phone is like my crack. But quality time with the kids while they still want to hang out with us is short, so we’re gonna try to maximise this time. A good friend of mine actually warned me that his 12 year old daughter flipped like a switch the day she turned 12 not the exact date. But you know, I mean, she refuses to be seen in public with him. And he shared with me how their text message exchanges consist of daughter asking him for money to go to Starbucks with her friends. I’m not looking forward to that. If you’d like to do some reading on the subject around more quality time with kids. I recommend the book. I just finished it this morning the family board meeting by Jim shields. See if I read the book first before I did the forming of my son, we would have likely gotten it right but you know, nothing’s perfect. Perfection is the enemy of getting stuff done.

Erwin  

ready fire aim. Sorry. Again. The book is called Family board meetings by Jim shields. I have a link in the show notes. And Jim also happens to be an extremely successful real estate investor in Florida. Hopefully he’s okay with Hurricane Ian. I believe you yours because I believe he’s on the east side. Once the conference is over, I look forward to booking more quarterly meetings. One each with my mom, my dad, brother and sister as well, dates night, maybe we’ll get back to date nights as well with cherry. I’m gonna for me on to this week’s show. Our market update that we had two weeks ago with Coach Tammy de Tabasco was a hit based on the downloads. Tamizh DITA masses, were just right there with some of our ultra successful full time real estate investors on the show. As an FYI, to our 70. Listeners, I know we do have a lot of the big time investors in the show, however, understand, in my experience, the vast majority of real estate investors are investing as a side hustle over 90% of my Millionaire Real Estate. Investor clients are side hustlers. And in real estate, they all have daytime jobs that they have, they still have. The truth about real estate is that folks who do make a full time career as an investor is a small minority. And for those who got in more recently, a lot of them are no longer. It’s really sad that this market has not done good things to people that were over leveraged. And I remember asking a mortgage broker friend of mine, he focuses on real estate investors. And he told me that maybe 1% of real estate investors reach 10 or more properties. That number has gone up a lot since then. But my point is, do what’s right for you. No need to compare yourself to others with hundreds of doors. The other truth is several investors are in financial distress right now. And also understand that’s not my context. I’m hearing this from other mortgage brokers and lawyers deal with people outside of my clients circle. They’re having challenges executing their flips or their burrs. Are they over leveraged, or they simply speculated and can no longer afford whatever negative cash flows that are planning for with these now current interest rates, and also with the market with market prices falling? In my experience boring cash flowing starter homes is the bread and butter, and it’s been our bread and butter since our team. Since our team started in 2010. It’s worked out well. It’s very well in this in this current economic winter starter homes, we’ve obviously evolved our strategy. We’ve taken starter homes now to force appreciation via renovations to increase cash flow such as basement suite apartments, or we did it used to do a lot more student rentals before basement apartments were legalised. And all these strategies were pre pandemic and post pandemic. And it’s worked in against all working in a declining market as well. Hence we have coach Steven Phillips here to talk to us today about investing in the areas east of the GTA. And what in terms of terms of deals and numbers behind the properties investors are buying right now in today’s market. That makes sense. So in the show notes, I actually have screen captures of Property Analyzer spreadsheets, so if you want to see the details, sorry, the numbers and the calculations behind the properties we’ve discussed today. Go to show notes. Truth about real estate investing.ca. Or if you’re on my email list, they’ll go shop right in your inbox so you don’t have to go searching for it. If you don’t know Steve, he’s a member of our team. He’s licenced realtor. He has a tonne of real estate experience having owned and operated a kitchen and countertop business. His stuff was so nice that they caught the attention of HGTV Scott McGilvery. And Stephens business has was part of over 20 episodes on Scott’s shows. So Steven wasn’t necessarily in all the shows, but his businesses, his business and his products were on the show. Steve grew up in the Durham area, which is east of the Greater Toronto Area and now focuses on the areas east from Moscow to Kingston. But primarily this sweet spot at Belleville understand why we’re in Belleville a lot of the smart money that I know that I know personally in Oshawa, there in Belleville as well. So follow the smart money. It’s never a bad idea. The most common request we receive from new clients is quote unquote, I want a deal. So as a service to you 17 listeners, we’re here to provide you context into what a deal looks like. So please have your pens and paper ready. Spreadsheets ready. I’ve looked at the show notes, as we’re going to talk to current opportunities and the analysis behind them on today’s show. I give you Steven Phillips. Let’s see what’s keeping you busy these days.

Stephen  

Oh, in this real estate market, a lot of things are keeping me busy right now. So yeah, projects, clients, things that are on the go people. kids back to school. Lots of things.

Erwin  

Should a mouthful there. Yeah. So actually we’re recording this mid September. But what surprised me was how busy we were in August is actually forecasted. A very quiet August, like all of us. Were off for a week or two. All of everyone on the team including yourself. Yes. Investors were busy.

Stephen  

Yeah, they were busy. We had a I know, like out our way in Belleville did a fair amount of deals with our clients towards the front end of August, last weeks of July. A lot of those kind of closed out right around that midpoint. And then investors kept contacting but there was also the waiting for September’s announcement kind of out there. So there’s some people that were trying to get in before the announcement. And some people just can’t They’re hesitating and waiting until they heard the announcement. So we’re talking about the interest rate announcement from the interest rate announcement. Yeah, from tech Macklin yet I took advantage went out to Nova Scotia for a couple of weeks with my family because we haven’t been in multiple years to see family, and then came right back into it. And September’s picking up, right where mid August left off. Seemed like we missed a beat on that.

Erwin  

Yes, again, I’m surprised again, you know, after two years locked down, I thought people would be people are vacationing hard. Well, you live in the vacation area that you’ve seen how hard people are going.

Stephen  

Yeah, but you know, like, surprisingly, like, you know, you say that, and I would agree we do have a tonne of tourism here with Prince Edward County. But I don’t know, it’s anecdotal, but it just kind of felt a little slower this year with some of our tourism. I think a lot of people took advantage of being able to leave the country. So I think that kind of changed things. There was definitely a lot of tourists here like no doubt. But, you know, during COVID, like when there was a lockdown, and you couldn’t like many people couldn’t leave the country. We were like, inundated felt like you couldn’t even move on the streets here. It wasn’t like that this.

Erwin  

So if that was your baseline when you could not leave the country? Yeah, that’s not fair baseline. Because when I was in Belleville, when we did the tour, and it was August, right, early August, August, when I was in Belleville, every hotel was packed the hotel I stayed out of the pack, dude, don’t you remember? We stayed in the very last Airbnb and all the towel on the whole town.

Stephen  

The Shack, the shack that claimed to me yeah, definitely tough to find a spot.

Erwin  

So for the listeners benefit because somebody waited Not me. Not Steve. Somebody waited to the last minute to book our accommodation in Prince Edward County. So we got the very last Airbnb that was available. And it was I don’t know what year do you think that was built in?

Stephen  

Please the 30s.

Erwin  

So 90 year old house. I built by hand,

Stephen  

though the house was nice. That’s the big there was a nice house. And there was a nice guest house. And then there was the shack, which I think was the original house that family had moved and upgraded every year since so yeah.

Erwin  

Which didn’t help things. Because yeah, to paint a picture for the listener. It was a beautiful like 3500 square foot house without pool attached to it built within like five years, beautiful house where the owners currently live. And then next to it was the second house that was built on the property, which was not a fun, like pretty typical starter home for most suburbs. But no, and then, but they rent that property. But that’s not where we were staying. We were staying in what they call the shack, and we paid over $400 for the night for it. And it was a little one and a half story. And I believe that house that house was hand built. I don’t even think it was no it was tiny. 300 square feet.

Stephen  

It was still logs. Yeah, maybe maybe it was it was very small and very, very, very, Rustic.

Erwin  

Rustic. For any short term investors out there. We we paid over 400 a night for that place. It was embarrassing.

Stephen  

The county is crazy. Yeah, the county is crazy. I mean in so there’s not a lot. Everybody’s heard about Prince Edward County. There’s not a lot of hotels here. That’s kind of the thing. There’s not a lot of growth. So you’ve not a lot of growth in hotels. I think there’s limiting variables as to why there’s not a lot of hotels here. But it’s hard to build hotels here. So you’ve got the Drake, Devon char, which is a beautiful hotel, but limited in room size. You have the royal which just got built and picked in 28 rooms or something like that, like it’s limited in room size. Yeah, like beautiful boutique hotels, but the word boutique has to be added to all the hotels, right? Like it’s not big. And so that’s why there’s so many Airbnb ease, right, and they fill the void. But when they’re all booked up, the overflow lands in Belleville because it’s it’s about 3540 minute drive from the bottom of the county, or at least the popular part of the county, up to Belleville. So that’s why your hotels are all booked. And yeah, it’s a hard place to come in and stay in the summertime without

Erwin  

a plan. And just as the outside as an outside observation. The whole area hasn’t like a feel of Niagara on the Lake to me, because you actually have wineries there we are you took us out to you took us to dine on a winery and our winery, which is pretty awesome.

Stephen  

Yeah, we’ve got a few out here that there’s there’s lots of things to do. I think there’s you know, definitely Niagara came first and then the county has kind of tried to do their part to stand apart and yet follow and so yeah, there’s there’s definitely signals and signs of both. But it is its own thing out here. That county is its own beast it is. It’s an interesting place. Very interesting place.

Erwin  

Now you’re East I recall it. So we’re not talking about why No, we’re not here to talk about why because investors are buying and what I want to accomplish with with having you on being an expert of areas east of GTA is what are investors buying because I think there’s tonne is a few out there some more to some not, you know, if you’re in this for the 510 year term like you are an IR or we’re looking for opportunity, but a lot of investors don’t know what a deal looks like. So what are investors buying today?

Stephen  

What a deal looks like? Isn’t that funny? Yeah,

Erwin  

I think deals different everybody.

Stephen  

I think if you’re looking at it, it’s always a different thing. And I mean, when we’re having these conversations, I have a lot of conversations with investors, a lot of them are new investors, I think it’s key to first figure out what their time horizon is, because that’s a better way to identify what a deal is, like,

Erwin  

oh, boy, this is not the time. Yeah,

Stephen  

well, you better be good at them. Right. Like, it’s not the time for a rookie flipper, that’s for sure. We have a couple in our

Erwin  

and you better be going the tools yourself.

Stephen  

You better be good. Yeah, there’s no contractor. So like, you better be good at something to do with that. And you gotta buy right very much right now, I’m finding that I have a couple of clients that are flipped clients. They’re very, very experienced with clients. They’re not like newbies, they’re very, very experienced, they know what they’re doing for them. They’re just looking for the absolute best price right now. Because they need to pretend, or at least project, not pretend project, what the property will be worth in 90 days. And there’s no crystal ball that’s telling anybody that right now. So you have to be uber Uber conservative on your numbers, and then try to buffer in as much of a safety as you can. So also just as a sidebar to that. They’re also always looking to make sure they have a backup plan. What is the rent on this property? If I can’t dump it? If I can’t get it back in the market and time to sell it? What’s it going to rent for? And and am I willing to carry that burden until the market comes back to where it should be in and I can start to move and prices kind of bottom and start to climb again. So yeah, I think those flippers are definitely out there. But they’re very much not for the it’s not for the faint of heart. It’s not for anybody who’s this is not television. Flip shows this is like professionals. And so if you’re not that guy, be careful.

Erwin  

Right? So I would say that I’ve spoken to many investors as well. And we’re just people lawyers, this seems more of a type of buy and hold time, a time to be buying for hold for the long term.

Stephen  

Of course, like I think you’re absolutely right, I think all those people are because ultimately if you buy a product, and that product goes on sale, and you don’t know how long the sale is going to last, you should try to get as much of that product as you can afford to get you ready for when the prices aren’t going anywhere. And this is a great time to kind of stock up on your inventory of good opportunities, even if the property is not going to be renovated right away, stock up on it now and get yourself ready for down the line. So I have some people that are looking at properties that are are finished and have garden suite potential. They’re not duplexes, yet they’re still single family residential, but for the time being right now, they’ll they’ll cashflow neutral, and yet they have the option in the potential of a garden suite add on in the spring or in you know, maybe six to eight months from now. And then that will take them to a positive cash flow position. It just depends on what people are looking for right now.

Erwin  

So what are what are our clients buying right now? Can you tell us about a bit about them?

Stephen  

Our clients are buying those. I think the last few deals that I’ve been doing have actually been kind of a couple duplex conversions have gone through, I have one that just sold that we just closed on two weeks ago, end of August for a duplex or a two unit property that was already a vacant unit vacant possession. No renovations needed, take the property over and get it rented condos. Yeah. If you can find those right now. Like they’re great. I think the whole key to that deal was to make sure we had vacant possession, and then making sure that we could set the rents because rents are increasing. I mean, I’m sure you’ve talked about numerous times I’ve seen it just on a couple of weeks ago, rents are increasing significantly. And so we want to try to get our rents established to today’s values because a year from now, they may still be low. So we need to get them set as as best as possible. And so that’s the advantage of that that deal there of getting vacant possession.

Erwin  

I’m sorry, we’ve heard move on what’s a turnkey duplex gopher these days?

Stephen  

So there’s a very interesting question. There are

Erwin  

because it varies, it can be really duplexes there can be rundown, duplexes?

Stephen  

Absolutely, that’s always in the wheelhouse. And there’s also the variable of time. So the property that we did with our client was towards the first or the end of July into August, that price point. I don’t necessarily know if that’s still the same price point right now for some of the duplexes of that size. It’s a bit bigger than some of the other ones but I’m seeing duplexes starting to come down to the mid to low fours, which is significantly lower than even at the end of July. So the one that we picked up early in the year was or partly early in the month was closer to the mid high fives just under six. When we ran all of our numbers on that property. It was still in a cashflow positive position. There was no investment required other than the downpayment, the property management was coming in around $200. To manage the duplex was a two bedroom on the main floor and a one bedroom upstairs, the two bedrooms are probably going to rent or should rent somewhere around $2,000 a month, everything was split. So Well, not everything the water, the water had its water and gas was included in the rents and the hydro was an additional. So 2000 We were going to bump in another 100 or so and change for the split of those utilities, so called 2150 for the two bedroom, and the one bedroom was going to be somewhere around 1800 to 1900.

Erwin  

Oh, wait, that’s a lot.

Stephen  

It’s a lot. It’s a lot. It was a nice one bedroom, and it was a loft it up in the top and it was pretty isolated. Could be as you know, I’m also adding in those utilities, the base rent of that would be 16 1650. And then we’re adding in the cost of those utilities to the rent as well. So which kind of pulls it up to that 1800 number. But yeah, 1650

Erwin  

that’s a lot for a one bedroom 1800 For there’s no,

Stephen  

we have no vacancies, we have no vacancies here, we have no vacancies anywhere, the rental supply is very, very low. I think that for anything of good quality that’s close to transit lines, the prices have gone up. I think those rents were somewhere around 14 to 1500. This time last year, and they’ve gone up.

Erwin  

Okay, so hang on. So this one that we’re talking about, how much did you pay for this property that’s has two bedrooms, one bed down?

Stephen  

590.

Erwin  

Okay, so I was gonna run some numbers. I’m like the worst Asianet math my calculator out. So 2000 plus 1800 times 12. So my annual rent is 45,600. By 590. Hertz was a percent. If you’d if it was inclusive, you’d be you know, doing close to 9%.

Stephen  

Yeah, and so property tax. So here’s another thing on a property like that the property tax for that property is $2,300. So you have low expenses, low costs on a lot of your carry costs, and then your rents are still creeping up into those numbers. Now we’re renting that property right now. So the market itself is going to tell me how wrong I am or how right I am. But I think that the but

Erwin  

if you’ve no vacancy

Stephen  

vacancy, there’s really you know, there’s not a lot I know room rentals right now. So let’s take a room rental, for example, the room rental rate here, I know of a guy that was one of the realtors who has a boarder house, I guess you could call it a boarding house. He was getting 850 A room on just a room rental on a in a boarding house that was quite undesirable. So

Erwin  

I’m sorry to disappoint you there for listeners benefit of boardinghouse typical example is like a student rental, a proper one is usually licenced each room is treated like almost like a separate unit. So there’s fire safety for each of the bedrooms, to be self closing door to be fire rated drywall between all the units and the flooring and ceiling, all that sorts of things. So it’s all highly regulated, probably at least annual fire inspection, stuff like that. That would be a proper boarding house 850 room and it’s not so nice.

Stephen  

Yeah. And like who’s renting that right? For the most part, what we’re getting who’s renting those types of situations are either working in the military and are only here a couple of days, a week, three or four days a week, and then they live back maybe in Quebec or something like that, where their actual family is pretty dependent. Yeah, like they’re great tenants. And then some other ones are contractors. So just about job as a contractor or somebody working for utility company or something like that. They’re not here consistently. They’re just here to do their job. And then they go home, they tend to be the renters that are looking for those boarding houses, right, like room rentals. That’s not so bad. Now, you do have students here student rentals. I know right now we’re going around 750 a room for like, the student rental population,

Erwin  

for a marketing agency, with no

Stephen  

vacancy, and yet they’re all like, hungry looking for units. So like, it’s just very much a landlord’s market is just there’s no inventory, there’s no inventory. So I put them put the sign up, market it, see what shows up. And then pick the best quality if you pick a better quality tenant and you got to take 100 bucks off your your cash flow, but you’re getting in quality. Maybe you do that. But yeah, market will tell Mark will tell where we’re at. So Sorry,

Erwin  

Steve, I want to finish off these your 590 K, would you do me a solid and send me the spreadsheet. And then that can include a link to the show notes. So folks, they want it. So for those folks, if you’re driving, you know, don’t worry, the spreadsheet will be the show notes, at least a PDF or something like that. So you can see the numbers. But again, these numbers are great.

Stephen  

And again, we’re looking at a property that at that purchase price right now. I don’t see a lot of the properties selling at that purchase price right now. But for my client, I mean that was the market we were in when we made that deal. That was good. Everything was great online, and the numbers still work. And so moving forward, you know, we’re gonna keep moving on to the next one. Get this one be locked up, get it rented, see where the market rents come in and then adjust?

Erwin  

Well, even in my experience, the contractors, it’s hard to get a contractor and prices are going still going up. So they bought turnkey, which, in my opinion is a good thing in this market, because it’s so hard to get contractors now.

Stephen  

I agree. I agree. 100% and your

Erwin  

cash flowing day? Well, you’re basically cash flowing almost immediately. You don’t have to carry that darn thing and worry about it and deal with the renovation. Yeah, significant renovation.

Stephen  

I think the next property that on that note, I we just had a property close yesterday, actually. It was one that was on our tour. We were here in Belleville, that property, we ended up picking up for $430,000. This is a drum are they asking? For 49? Got under asking with conditions, right? Yes, three conditions. In the end, yeah, three conditions. I work appraisal conditions into my clauses right now. Because those prices are slipping. And I go back to my first client, like the first client that we talked about, we had no appraisal condition in there. So yes, the prices were higher when we purchase, but we had our appraisal done the day before we waived our condition. So we knew that the appraisal was already in, we knew the file was closed, we knew everything was going to work. And we move forward within a closed X amount of days later, this one, we did the same thing quicker closed. So the appraisal really didn’t matter. We got to well under value. So we were good. But 430.

Erwin  

Alright, excellent. And then what’s the renovation budget gonna be?

Stephen  

So this is where it gets interesting. This particular client is also a carpenter. So he gets to take care of a lot of the things himself, his budget is going to be somewhere around 100k. Because he’s really delegating very little, just the things he doesn’t actually do plumbing, electrical, things like that. H back, things like that.

Erwin  

This is why I think it’s wonderful for young people to get into trades. Because I just seen so many people who are good at trades become very good real estate investors.

Stephen  

This person is a younger than me, and he is quite quite smart, quite savvy, I would encourage the same thing. If you’re a young person who’s ambitious, get as many skills as you possibly can get, because it’ll just protect you. And like even if you delegate out to a contractor, and that contractor is doing the work for you. If that guy or that girl messes up anywhere or they’re slow, or they slow down, or they disappear, you can jump in and finish. So you’re never at this like moment where you’re you’re dependent on anybody, you have a level of independence. And so even that is a huge benefit. So

Erwin  

fantastic. Okay, so 430 by under camera, no. Budget, what are they renovating a kitchen or to a whole basement suite conversion?

Stephen  

So we’re doing a duplex? Yeah, we’re doing a duplex on that property, full basement, Reno and duplex and then the upper floor, we’re taking the kitchen from its existing place and kind of moving it half the room over and giving it a little bit more space.

Erwin  

So excuse me, you’re moving the kitchen over this is pretty significant. It is

Stephen  

but it’s if you see the layout, I’m going to show this at our at our upcoming meeting. The layout is is pretty conducive for this move. Actually, it’s not too intensive, and it works out because the clients are carpenter. It’s not as intensive as it may have. Be for some other people. So it’s not that big of a deal. Yeah.

Erwin  

Fantastic. I love it. I love I love efficient use of real estate, oh, efficient use of anything.

Stephen  

Yeah, we ended up we had a room, we had two living rooms essentially had a front living room and a back living room. And then this tiny little kitchen in the middle that you would zigzag through to get to the back living room, which was you know, an addition that was put onto the property. So why have a little tiny kitchen that doesn’t make any sense and have two living rooms. So the client is is looking to move that into the back and make it a kitchen and then have a proper kitchen and then actually use the old kitchen for his laundry and as storage is going to convert that space properly. So

Erwin  

Steven, I forgot to ask how many square feet is this house? Sounds big. If there’s two living rooms. It

Stephen  

was the additions throwing me off. I would say it’s like a standard bungalow like like larger size 1200 You walk through it. But the second one we went through, but yeah, I hesitate to say an exact number. I don’t know off the top of my head, but it’s a larger bungalow, but it’s a traditional bungalows, like three bedrooms, one bath, and then the kitchen, the living room and then the basement.

Erwin  

So you got you got a house for like around 360 a square foot. And that’s before counting for the basement.

Stephen  

Yeah, yeah. And then like the rents there.

Erwin  

Say, Let’s do this again for a second for all these people who buy condos. 360s square foot. You can’t build anything for that price.

Stephen  

As opposed to your 1600 That’s right.

Erwin  

You’re not in this game with the land folks. You can’t build anything for this price.

Stephen  

Let’s talk about the land is Before we get there, but

Erwin  

you know, buying for less than replacement value is a nice thing to do. It’s a good investment criteria. I think we’re I think we’re getting that here. You can build this house. Like if you missed the land. I don’t know, what do you think a lot is worth 100 grand?

Stephen  

You know what it’s hard to say out here. I’ve seen some of them going a lot higher. Call it 150 180 50.

Erwin  

Okay, so for 30, grand, less 150 for the lot, a lot. So you’re saying the building is worth about 280 1200 square feet, says $233. A square foot is what you bought. Right? Plus basement. So 233 inch square. You cannot build it when

Stephen  

you start putting it that way. You’re making me nervous. Like, like I’m doing the math wrong. Yeah, no, it is, though. I don’t see how you could build this house. No, I don’t see that. And I think that’s a common thing. That is part of the deals that I’m looking at right now. A lot of the deals that we’re looking at. I don’t think even if you had to gut the entire thing inside, it’s hard to build it back up at the price you’re buying it for I can’t even can’t imagine.

Erwin  

So I’d argue this is looking good so far.

Stephen  

Yeah, like this deal. I’m really excited about this deal. Oh, it’s big lot.

Erwin  

Right. It’s a huge lot. All the lots of believers years.

Stephen  

Right. I don’t have it offhand. I think it was 50 and change by 140. Posts himself. It was yeah, it was a doozy of a lot. We walked it. So anybody who was on our tour will know that Lot was good. If you want to come and see the numbers. We’ll be showing them on Saturday. But yeah, the law was was beautiful and garden suite potential. So the thing about Belleville just if you’re not aware, we can do garden suites in Belleville, but they fall under our accessory, apartment or accessory dwelling bylaw. So you can’t do both the duplex bungalow and the garden suite yet, because of our density is too low yet, like we haven’t gone through enough properties. So what clients are doing is finding properties that have potential for garden suite for future use, this could be added down the line and or rent the entire single family home in the meantime, and then put the garden suite in the back is the next step. So this particular property clients going to do the basement first. But there is more than enough room in the back to put a garden suite down the line that will be two bedrooms and adult you know, another 800 900 square feet easy.

Erwin  

I love real estate with options. You’re You’re really not a fan of condos. For folks, has been on the podcast before back in April. So you want to hear about his rant about at condos, it’s all in there. If you want Steve’s full story as well, it’s on it’s on the April episode. But for now we’re just gonna focus on deals. I love real estate with options. Because if the property has options, we’ve seen it before, if a house can have a basement suite doesn’t have to happen, just the fact if it has the ceiling height and the zoning for basement suite, those houses sell more than the equivalent house that does not have those things. Right. So So again, I want the house with options because I know it’s worth more. Even if I don’t do the work. Even if I never build the garden suite. I know my property is worth more because it can it can support one.

Stephen  

I also think you know, like piggybacking onto that comment, like that statement. Like it’s all it’s very true. I also think that your listeners and our clients, I mean, not to be too presumptuous, they’re quite advanced compared to the regular pert like regular market, right? It’s not everybody looking at real estate is even thinking about future use of cards. So when you’re using that knowledge, and you’re buying with that, you kind of also have to hold on to that, that you’re way ahead of the curve. So you may not see or realise that potential value until X amount of years down the line. That’s okay, you were in early, right. So like, if you buy the property today, and you turn around and go, but I can put a garden suite on it and nobody else cares. Don’t worry, it’s good that you know it because you’re ahead of the curve. They’re all going to catch up to you. It’s just a matter of time before they realise why that was important that you did that.

Erwin  

Fantastic. And then what do you think? What’s the property gonna be done? Once the duplex can be when it’s done three bedroom,

Stephen  

three bedroom up two bedrooms down. There’s a requirement of Belleville to only do two bedrooms in the basement. So that’s fine. We’ve put in pretty conservative rents. I think for what I’ve seen a lot of new build duplexes like this getting, but upstairs, we’ve got it in at 2200 2250 Plus utilities. And then downstairs looking at again about 1800 Plus utilities, it’ll be separate everything because it’s new new build. Again, property management in the area is about $200 for the duplex. I’ve got 100 grand in there, I’ll put I’ll send you those spreadsheets when we’re done. But basically when I run through everything through our calculator, it’s just over $1,000 on Monte Carlo.

Erwin  

Okay. Wow, you have four grand to rent for a month. Okay for granted random month, times 12 months 40,000 A year. Oh my Lord, for listeners benefit this is special since the since the investors doing the renovation themselves.

Stephen  

It’s an anomaly. Yeah. But even min it takes out of the outflow of capital. Right. So it’s it’s taking the original capital expense down, but it doesn’t affect the original buy too much so. So yeah, I think it’s a good one. There’s a couple other little anomalies in here that are that are interesting, but we’ll save that for Saturday.

Erwin  

But still numbers like that’s the rent is 9% of purchase place plus rent. I was like, That’s phenomenal. And the tenant pays all utilities since you’re split them.

Stephen  

Yeah. And I think if you’re looking for like social proof there are we have a mutual person that we know out here in Belleville doing some deals and like it’s all over Instagram, what they’re getting on their rents like, I’m not making them up. They’re kind of kind of being advertised here.

Erwin  

So before we move on to property number three, how important is it to have team how important is it to have a contractor and Property Management contacts? Okay, so in relationships,

Stephen  

this is it’s very, very important. The contractor aspect of here is, it’s complicated. It’s very complicated to get like, in the sense that there is a waiting period for a lot of our good contractors here. They’re not just ready to morrow, to start your renovation. They’re not ready to start anybody’s renovation, right. But as far as property management is concerned, we have that locked in there ready to go tomorrow, sign them up, they’ll send you the contract, everything’s good to go. As far as you know, general assistance with drafting and documents and paperwork and city dealing with all of that under control. You just when I’m dealing with my clients, I’m trying to prepare them for what strategy we can use to kind of wait until the contractors are available. So this is based on the individual investors kind of background understanding thresholds, where are they at with financial? Can they hold the property and pay the bills and float it while we wait? If not, then we may be looking at a turnkey. Yeah, we’re looking at turnkey, or we’re looking at a property. So what is the single family renting for right now, for the most part, you cannot find anything renting under $2,400 A month plus utilities pretty much any house. So you know that’s a pretty good start, if we’ve got now I have another property that I was just looking at with a client who was entertaining this property because it’s very interesting. It’s a 60 by 220 foot lot inside the city, like inside the rate on the transit lines and everything which is a big lot there. And the property is

Erwin  

a lot anywhere, Steve sorry.

Stephen  

I live out here there’s a lot of Big Lots I’m talking about like two and a three, four acre lots everywhere. But So anyhow, this property has just recently been flipped, the inside of the home is immaculate, it’s been done amazing, but the flippers flipped into the wrong part of the market and it needs to get rid of this property it will sell in the high fours it has future use of a massive garden suite in the back no problem. This property is one of those type of deals where you can rent that right now it is in the same quality as new construction you’re probably going to get closer to 2800 plus utilities for a property like this three bedroom one bath upstairs full house so that property although not cash flowing a significant amount of money right off the bat does put you in a position where you’ve got a very well finished house turnkey ready to go well you set up for your garden suite in the back. So things like that are options for people that are starting to entertain

Erwin  

well they have they have rental income commitment and right away there’s something to be said for that.

Stephen  

It’s not costing them three grand or two grand a month and carrying costs while they wait for contractors so gives them a bit of options.

Erwin  

So it again to each their own I don’t really think there’s bad investments. But again, for some people that might help them sleep at night knowing that the the properties or any type of tenanted right away

Stephen  

doesn’t doesn’t eat anything and it’s done very well and then go to like the first part of our conversation where you are buying a 60 by 220 foot lot in the four hundreds with a house on like those type of things are also should be valued. Like it’s hard to find something like that, you know, six months ago, in February or whatever it was we were we were killing for deals like this. So they’re all still good deals. They just interest rates are higher. That’s all

Erwin  

isn’t the flipper gonna take a bath on this. They saw it in the four hundreds.

Stephen  

This goes back to dangerous times to be a flipper,

Erwin  

Steve, I’m sure people are gonna be looking for this. Where can they find where can they read To to you if they’re interested in looking at property in Belleville and surrounding area. So we send me just to clarify that folks like we’re talking about belvo now, but Steve goes from like Kingston to Oshawa. So

Stephen  

deals are Yeah, the deals are going into different markets like we have people starting to look at different markets like Kohlberg, which is a nice growing market and values are going to jump much higher there. So there’s different markets along that corridor, the 401 corridor, but particularly right now, we’re talking about Belleville deals. But yeah, Instagram, I guess is the most conventional way people reach out to me. The world has changed. Yeah, email, but you don’t i don’t know you sometimes block given on emails on.

Erwin  

I just worry, because, again, internet’s forever. At least Instagram you can we say bye to it. Your your email is hard to say bye to

Stephen  

you know what, if you reach out to our team at iWin, they’ll put you in touch with me pretty quickly. I think everybody on our team connects to me pretty, pretty fast. So we can help you either way.

Erwin  

Stephen Phillips on Instagram, or the handle is Island underscore, on underscore the underscore east side of the link list. You’re in the shownotes, folks. All right. And that was property three that we’re talking about the the Flipped product, how was the workmanship on this flip product on this flip house?

Stephen  

Man, it was good. It was good. It was actually a very good finished product. Like I’m harsh. Just like, you know, the rest of our team is I’m pretty harsh on the contractors

Erwin  

because of rent home renovation background, so you know what workmanship supposed to look like. And that’s we gauged as well, how I want my rentals renovated is different than how I want my home renovated. So it’s different standards, right?

Stephen  

And it’s, you know, to a certain degree, and I not Yeah, I just I know, I have a gauge of what is what is in line with what it should be. And it was it was good. It was a good quality product, I was happy with it. So I think that that’s that’s definitely an interesting phenomenon, there’s there seems to be a few of them out there, these flip flop properties more and more coming online. And they’re in a position on the price point where they’re kind of a little out of reach still, for the first time homebuyer and they’re a little, you know, they’re in a weird zone, they kind of hit this weird place. And so they’re, there’s something to be taken advantage of, from the investor point of view, if they have what they need, doesn’t work for everyone. But if they have to lie, or they have something that could be very appealing, actually asking, I’m gonna hold that to myself, let them contact me to find out because it may give too many hints, and I’ll lose my lead, mystery.

Erwin  

Or be there the other day when meeting

Stephen  

appeared to be at the IOP the purchase price is definitely that I’m proposing is definitely lower than the list price. I

Erwin  

feel sorry for the flipper. But, you know, you can feel sorry for the flipper. But you know, I was talking to a flipper yesterday, a pretty big one, I think he was sharing that they’re gonna take like a 30 grand hit on the current deal. But they made tonnes of money. Last couple years. It’s the professionals, the professionals. So you know, it sucks to lose money, yes, on a deal. But you can’t just look at one deal, you have to look at the law, if the look the whole picture.

Stephen  

I think that’s the biggest mistake I see young investors or newbie investors look at is they get obsessed on the one and right in front of them. And the guys that I’ve met that are very long term minded, they know that it’s a long game, you’re going to win some you’re gonna lose some you try to win more than you lose. And for the most part, you know, you you don’t, you don’t take massive, massive risks. But if things don’t always work out the way you planned it, don’t let it ruin your life and your business. Just keep moving on you just and you move on to the next thing, right? It’s, it’s about that. And so the pros tend to like look at those scenarios, like these type of choppy waters, part of the game, like it’s just part of the game. And they’re gonna get a lot of good buying opportunities right now that hopefully they’ll make up for any loss that they’re taking right now next year, when the buys kind of cycled back out and they make some money. So it’s it’s hard to Yeah, I

Erwin  

think folks understand like, the consistency of success in real estate is very high, unlike general entrepreneurship, small businesses. So let’s leave it at that. All right. Awesome, Steve. Thanks for sharing, no processor. Is there another property to talk about? We’re good.

Stephen  

Let’s put it this way. We’ll leave it teaser. I have another property that we’ll be talking about at the iWin meeting. If you’re interested, you can come on out. We’ve got a couple more to go through and some of the deals that we’re looking at right now. We’re going to be covering on Saturday on the Iowan meetings as well. So come in to have a look because there are a couple of properties that we’re targeting and watching and keeping our eye on

Erwin  

or just reach out to Steve, if you’re open minded and nice.

Stephen  

Please nice people. My wife has a sign at our one at our building. It says Be nicer go home. We tend to follow that rule be no single or cool. Be nice but you Yeah, generally that’s the way it goes.

Erwin  

Amazing. See this, like that flip property you talking about? I don’t even know how much you spend for in Hamilton to get that kind of rent, it’d be over 700,000 might be over 800,000 to get that kind of not right kind of rent dollar. But amazing. Alright, Steve, thanks for sharing. And again, the whole point of this was so folks can get a taste of what investors are buying today. And the deals we’re looking at. Because if you’re not in the business, like we are, I don’t know how, you know. Context is everything. degrees.

Stephen  

Yes, context is everything, get the whole story about the market, don’t just follow the main narrative, because the main narrative is guiding you a certain way. And when you start to go into the trenches, and look and see and find details, you’ll figure out that the main narrative may not be what you believe.

Erwin  

It’s very good point. And we’re not saying that ours are deals with the best you can absolutely do. I’m sure some people can do better, but you probably got to work harder, a lot harder to find them. Amazing. All right. Thanks, Steve. Any final words? Thank

Stephen  

you, people get out there and do something. I mean, take action, it’s a lot easier. When this moment passes, whenever this moment passes, people will look back at these opportunity and they will surely call us and say I should have bought them. And at that moment is the moment where my empathy for you should have bought that is gone, because we were here working with other people helping them so let’s Yeah, take action, get out there, see property,

Erwin  

and then figure it out. Amazing. All right. Thank you, Steve.

Stephen  

Thanks, see you.

Erwin  

Before you go, if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow. But with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there. Forgive the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more, but it’s true for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca Enter your name and email address on the right side will include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself what so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

To Follow Stephen:

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 

 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Exited Real Estate For Stocks & $10k+/mth for Financial Freedom With Client Tim Collins

What I really enjoy about this podcast is learning about all the different paths to one’s financial goals.

I love reading books about entrepreneurship and investing for that reason however, most of those authors I’ll never get to speak to hence I’m grateful for my friendship with my mentors like Tom and Nick Karadza for real estate and Derek Foster for stocks.

 
 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Erwin Szeto (@erwinszeto)

By having expert mentors, they’re great for distilling down all the information they’re reading, e.g. Derek Foster being retired and, with his passion for stocks, has the time to read quarterly and annual reports of companies he wants to invest in, including Warren Buffet’s to get an understanding of what the greatest business leaders are seeing in the economy and market.

What’s even better is he’s kind enough to share what he’s buying and selling, and even though he doesn’t move the market as Warren Buffet does, Derek is positive on the year, with 60% cash while the stock market is down close to 20% in 2022.

He’s beating me as well, and my policy is to learn from winners with track history who have achieved what I want. In this case, financial freedom.  That’s the same reason we asked Derek to speak at the Wealth Hacker Conference, as Cherry and I are merely architects; we plan, design and oversee our own investments and for our clients.

Derek is Canada’s youngest retiree for almost 20 years and is our stock hacking expert.

Our conference also features experts in insurance, crypto/blockchain, real estate, cash flow management, and how to access the maximum number of mortgages for income properties.  All in one day. I can’t recommend enough that you bring your team with you: your investment partner, typically your spouse, and any friends and family who’s shown interest in investing and getting ahead in life. 

If you know the children’s game broken telephone, you know it’s best to receive information directly from the source.

If you’ve been around for a while, you know the importance of community in going far in any endeavour. For you, our 17 listeners, we have a discount code “truth” for the best price but don’t delay as the price only goes up the closer we get to the event.  Saturday, Nov 12th, Toronto Congress Centre next to Pearson Airport. Live and in-person only!

Link to discounted tickets: https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/wealth-hacker-conference-toronto-tickets-329788334787?discount=TRUTH

Exited Real Estate For Stocks & $10k+/mth for Financial Freedom With Client Tim Collins

On to this week’s show!

Full disclosure, Tim Collins is one of our longest-time clients hence he’s bought and held properties for several years in order to get rich slowly.

He’s also taken our Stock Hacker Academy courses. He’s switched careers a couple of times from high-paid tech executive to now a Real Estate Agent.  Moved his family from Orangeville, Ontario, to Nanaimo, BC, for warmer weather and a view of the ocean.

Tim is open-minded, successful, wants more out of life and is now financially free and has the option to retire early thanks to his now $10,000+ passive dividend income each month from his stock portfolio. Tim’s mental health is likely better than that of most investors these days.

From my experience working with investors every day, many of you want passive cash flow hence I’m excited to bring you this episode to learn how Tim escaped the 9-5 rat race and golden handcuffs by building wealth in real estate and then pivoting to stocks for greater yields and passivity.

We’re all on this journey of learning together, and what better way than to learn from folks who have what we want!

Announcement regarding Stock Hacker Academy, we’ve completely revamped the course to make it more comprehensive and added numerous modules to aid those new to the stock market.  Plus several value-adds we will announce at the Wealth Hacker Conference.

As always, we believe in and practise continuous improvement, and I’m beyond excited to share with our community the absolute best version of our beginner course at the lowest price anyone will ever see and only available for purchase at the conference.  Just another bonus for those in attendance!

Please enjoy the show!

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show. I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and me.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and, more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future, knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you, too, are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so, but for now, we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel; we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you by www.stockhackeracademy.ca, where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle, as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full-time musician who just made a 50% return in 2021.  Past, of course, does not predict the future, but if you’d like a free demonstration, go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right and click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration, I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners, and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

Erwin  

Greetings, and welcome to another episode The truth about real estate investing show. And on this show, what I really enjoy about doing this podcast is learning about all the different ways all the different paths to one’s financial goals. I love reading books about entrepreneurship and investing for that reason. However, most the authors I’ll never get to speak to never get to meet. Hence, I’m grateful for my friendships with my mentors like Tommy krejza for real estate and Derek foster for stocks by having expert mentors that are great for distilling down all information that they’re reading. For example, Derrick foster being retired and with his passion for stocks has the time to read quarterly and annual reports of companies he wants to invest in, including Warren Buffett to get an understanding of what the greatest business leaders out there are seeing in the economy and the market and for opportunity, of course, and also, you know, when to cut losses, what’s even better is Derek’s time to share but he’s buying and selling with me. Because we’re friends, please pretend we’re friends like to think we’re friends, though Warren Buffett moves the market. Anytime there’s an announcement, we understand there’s information available on when he’s entered a company such as like occidental oil, you know, he really moves the market doesn’t move the market like that. But however, Derek is positive on the year in terms of his investment portfolio, year to date, while being 6% cash and compare that to the overall stock market, which is down close to around 20%. Year to date in 2022. Derek’s beating me as well. And My policy is to learn from winners with track history who have achieved what I want. In this case, I want financial freedom and you know, finished work little less. That’s the same reason why we asked Derek to speak at the wealth hack conference. As Charlie and I are merely architects we plan, design and oversee our own investments and for our clients. Derrick cover is an expert in the area of stocks. He as he is Canada’s youngest retiree for almost 20 years, and is our stock hacking expert. Our conference also features experts in insurance, crypto, currency blockchain, that’s one category, real estate, cash flow management, specific to accounting for real estate, how to access the maximum number of mortgages, real income properties, all the really important things that any sort of professional investor needs. Side Hustle investors as well. Anything a professional investor wants to know side hustlers shouldn’t likely want to know it as well. All this all in one day. I can’t recommend enough that you bring your team with you, your team as in like your investment partner, typically your spouse or your significant other. Any friends and family who’ve shown interest in investing, like include any adult children, anyone who’s interested in getting ahead and who’s open minded and wants to get ahead in life. If you know that children’s game broken telephone, you know, it’s best to receive information directly from the source such as our expert speakers. If you’ve been around for a while, then you know the importance of community as well. Because if you want to go far in the Endeavour, you need a community to do it with you. And it takes a you know the whole saying it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a village to raise a successful investors in my experience. For you 17 listeners, we have a special discount code, which is truth, it’s a five letter word for the best price available. Please do not delay as the price will only go up between now and to the event on Saturday, November 12. Toronto Congress Centre next to Pearson Airport at Saturday, all day roughly, you know expect to shop for nine expect to leave around 530 ish. Of course VIPs will stay a little bit later for the meet and greet with our keynote speaker. And this is live and personally there will be no option to do this virtually getting the discount code is truth five letter word. And also in the show notes I’ve included a link because in my experience, a lot of people have trouble finding where to input the discount code. So I’ve included the link that goes directly to the discounted tickets for you 17 listeners, it’s all in the show notes. So if you’re on my email list, you get the show notes. Also, if you just go to our website truth about real estate investing.ca You go to this episode, you’ll see the link there as well, including all the show notes for this episode, including how to reach out to our deaths. So onto this week’s show. Full disclosure, Tim Collins is one of our longest time clients. Hence he’s bought and held real estate investment properties for several years in order to get rich slowly. He’s also taking our stock hacker Academy courses. He switched careers a couple times from when I first met him somewhere around 2012 ish. He was a high paid tech executive working downtown Toronto living in Orangeville. So he can understand is a bit of a commute. He’s now pivoted, he’s switched careers a couple times. He’s now a real estate agent. He’s also moved his family from Orangeville, Ontario to now Nanaimo BC, which is on Vancouver Island. It’s it’s a short ferry away from Vancouver, the city of Vancouver for the for warmer weather and better view of the ocean. Yeah, better view

Erwin  

view from Orangeville Ontario. Tim is obviously open minded, he’s successful, he wants more in life more out of life. And now he’s financially free to do whatever he wants and he has the option to retire even. He’s He’s also a successful realtor. So he still likes doing that. So technically he’s not retired but he has the option to retire. Absolutely. Thanks to his now 10,000 Plus passive dividend income each month, more than $10,000 Each month of dividend income. I’m not an accountant. But dividend income is generally more tax optimised than actually it’s usually the most tax optimised source of income typically tends mental health is likely better than most investors these days as well. Tim has exited all his real estate. So interest rates mean pretty much nothing to him. For his own investment portfolio, from my experience working with investors every day, many of you want passive cash flow. Hence, I’m excited to bring you this episode to learn how Tim escaped the nine to five rat race. They call it those golden handcuffs via building wealth and real estate, then pivoting to stocks for greater yields, and passivity. We’re all on this journey of learning together, and what better way to learn than from folks who have what we want. quick announcement regarding stock hacker Academy, we’ve completely revamped the course to make it more comprehensive and added numerous modules to aid those who are new to the stock market. So this is more beginner friendly than ever. Plus, we’ve added several value adds that we will announce at the wealth hacker conference. As always, we believe in and practice continuous improvement. I am beyond excited to share with our community, the absolute best version of our beginner programme at the lowest possible price that anyone will ever see. It’s only available after we announce it at the wealth hacker conference. Just another bonus for those of you in attendance. So without further ado, I bring you two columns. Please enjoy the show. Hey, Tim, longtime no talk. What’s keeping you busy these days?

Tim  

Well, my kids are back in school, which is brilliant news. Everybody’s excited about that happening. But yeah, just you know, the usual looking after the family, helping people buy and sell houses, as you know, in the old real estate game, although things have slowed down a little bit. There’s still there’s always lots to do there. Yeah, reading, learning. living my life

Erwin  

can be easy. Okay. I know you don’t feel like you said a lot. But I feel there’s a lot to unpack there. Let’s start off with where you live. What city do you live in? You are Canadian, even though you don’t sound like the average Canadian.

Tim  

Yes. Yeah, that’s a longer story. But I grew up in grew up in England, currently living in Canada. I was born in Canada, only for the first year of my life, and then grew up in England and then came back in my early 20s. But yeah, now I live on Vancouver Island in a place called Nanaimo, which I ended up here through a real estate investor attending a real estate investing course years ago, at the time, I was living in the GTA, and I just thought, you know, lifestyle wise, for me at the time just seemed like a great move. And I’m still, I’m still loving it. Eight years later, or nine years later, however long that is.

Erwin  

And that was quite affordable. Isn’t not? It is yeah,

Tim  

it was. It was when I came. Yeah, I think by in terms of by national average standards, people often think of Vancouver as being the most expensive real estate in Canada, which is probably still true. A Vancouver Island, less business here and less sort of going on economy wise tends to be a little bit cheaper. I don’t know what our average house price is at the moment. 900,000 Maybe. But yeah, you can still get a nice, single family home, often with views of the ocean because much of the MIMO is on a hill kind of looking at the piece of Ocean between us and the mainland. So yeah, I still think there’s affordable options. And with the recent pullback in real estate prices, I think there’s there’s opportunities for people to to get involved once again. Yeah.

Erwin  

How far do you think you guys are off the peak?

Tim  

Maybe 15%? Yeah, yeah, I think pretty typical numbers. I would say, I don’t know if I’m sort of biassed, because I’m a realtor and I live here. But there does tend to be a constant influx of interest in Vancouver Island, because when people retire from the East Coast, or Alberta, for instance, and they want to escape, you know, the frigid winters a lot of people look at Vancouver and said, right, I want to I want to live there because the winters are obviously a bit more less harsh. And some of the nice and you know,

Erwin  

you’re being modest. I imagine that you some of the best for the Hawaii of Canada. Yeah, exactly. I think that’s probably the right analogy is you likely have the best weather in Canada.

Tim  

I think so. Yeah. I mean, some people think that it rains too much in the winter for them. But again, I grew up in England. So for me, this is pretty close. Pretty close to that where I’m currently living. I’m very fortunate in that I can walk probably about 300 metres, some of which is down some steps, but and then I’m on the beach and the beach is because there’s about 300 steps down to the beach. It’s absolutely deserted. But it’s you could be in a different country. It is absolutely stunning to go there and go for a swim every day in the summer. We go down there so

Erwin  

amazing. And then working folks reach out to you should they be interested in investing or moving to Nanaimo? Yeah,

Tim  

you can just I mean, on Facebook and Instagram, it’s just Tim JP Collins, or if you want to find out more, I just check. My email address is just Tim at Tim collins.ca.

Erwin  

Fantastic. And folks, I’ll have the Tim’s social media coordinates in the in the show notes. Some people are driving your email. It’s just a podcast for yourself. You know, people aren’t done a cup typically listening and taking notes. They’re usually this is the second thing that they’re doing well listening for 17 listeners. I mean,

Tim  

interestingly, part of the origin story for living here is that I used to work. I used to live in Orangeville. And I used to work at Yun and the 401. And I would drive that road every day down, you know, along Highway nine, I think it is down the 400 along the 401 an hour anyway, yeah, like an hour and a half each day, probably in the winter even more, and I sat there one day in the car and got the calculator on my phone. And I always justified it by like, Oh, I’m listening to audiobooks and podcasts. I’m learning so much. But I got the calculator on my phone. I was that right? Three hours a day, five days a week, 52 weeks a year. And it was a 20 year career or something that ended up being years of my life. So I just can’t do this anymore. That was a big part of the reason for the move. Now. You know, when I first came here, I was commuting about 10 minutes, and now I work from home. So

Erwin  

even better. So what was your day? Like? Then? What time did you leave the house? And did you see your kids in the morning?

Tim  

Yeah, I didn’t see my kids when they were young. So I would leave at probably six and I would get home at six or seven at night. So a good 12 hours away from home my company worked for at the time were completely against remote work. And my wife famously reminds me to this day, you know, there was days where it was snowing outside in Orangeville. If you if you know that area is snowbelt particularly

Erwin  

bad. Your ski hills in Orangeville. Yeah,

Tim  

I live in ski hill and then hopefully Valley, so I bought a Subaru with winter tires, which means you can go pretty much anywhere. But I would go to work when these days I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t go to the end of the road. And I would drive that journey in horrific blizzards in winter conditions and just the obligation to I have to be there because they really want me in the office. And then you get to the office and you sit around and drink coffee all day and talk about non relevant things. But yeah, that was just that was the life right? You just felt like you had to be there. And it’s all part of the journey, so to speak. But I can’t today, I will no way I would want to be in that situation again.

Erwin  

Right. And around that time was when he got really motivated around real estate investing. Am I wrong? All right.

Tim  

Yeah, that’s right. I mean, it’s all part of part of that story of like dissatisfaction with that commute. And I started having some issues with anxiety around that time, and just being mega stressed out with work and the travel. And, you know, ultimately, I’ve put myself in some in some handcuffs in terms of I had this house, my kids were in private school, I got a couple of cars, I needed that salary to sustain my life. And I started thinking, we’re going to talk about other ways, which I’ve achieved it now. But back then I was thinking right real estate, I’m going to buy a house or rent it out. And through that rental income. There’ll be a generate some some money to replace my salary. So yeah, that’s when I think I literally went on Google one day and typed in real estate investing and ended up finding Julie Broad, who’s a mutual friend of ours. She happens to be in Nanaimo. That’s why I moved in an IMO because I came out here and fell in love with it. But yeah, I got super motivated to take action and control my own destiny and just say, right, I’m gonna learn as much as I can about this. i That’s how I found you and your Meetup. Julie connected this. Yeah. Thank you, Julie. But yeah, she connected us. I started coming to your Saturday morning sessions in Oakville. And that’s kind of how that was, you know how it all got got rolling, you know?

Erwin  

And then you bought a couple houses, bought some houses. Yeah, that’s funny. He’s bought a couple of houses. So I remember

Tim  

the first time we went on, I think it was I remember in my head it was West Fourth Street near Mohawk College. We looked at this house and I think I paid 274 or 270,000. I said to and always said he was like, Would you do this? You know, like, yeah, it seems like a good opportunity is close to the college and we kind of talked about it and so that was the first one of many that I got involved in her.

Erwin  

I started justifies right there. I don’t know if you know, but actually tried to buy it from the person you sold it from afterwards. Oh, really? In hindsight, I regret not buying it from you. Because I was actually trying to end up trying to own that section. The four houses those four houses on at the corner. Yeah, but that’s funny. You asked me what I buy it. I wish I owned it now. Because I was trying to play Monopoly and control a quarter. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. Continue.

Tim  

Yeah, but I mean, it sounds very romanticised. In hindsight, by the time I got loads of stories about, you know, student Nightmares From Hell, where I’d go in and they wouldn’t have taken the garbage out for a couple of weeks and cockroaches and exterminators and people not paying rent and drugs and balls everywhere. And it was just Yeah, it’s a lot of work. And at the time, when I was knee deep in, you know, with rubber gloves on picking up other people’s garbage and pulling hair out of drains and all those terrible things. I just thought I gotta do this. I got to work hard. I’ve got to get it done. And so I would go around my Hamilton houses and be my own property manager for a while. And then at some point during the evolution, I realised I can’t keep buying houses and trying to find joint venture partners. and do all the property management and so started outsourcing elements of it to other people. But yeah, that was in terms of capital growth, buying real estate was was how I did that. There’s no secret to that. And I still probably remains the best way. Or one of the best ways to make money over time. It’s the kind of the get rich slow scheme, right. So another place they bought in Orangeville, in probably 2010, paid around 200,000 For that sold out for 650 reasonably, and that was like a semi detached house and went in and same thing like bread the carpets out ourselves painted the walls, but in flooring and did whatever we could to rent out and maintain it. And yeah, I mean, lots of people listening to your podcast know how this stuff works? Yeah, it’s been a sort of great journey of, of building those things up and then offloading them as well. You know,

Erwin  

for two really quick update on the student rental market. A lot of landlords got out during the pandemic. Yeah. So there’s like, no supply. Right. So bedrooms master for mediocre hosts. Yeah. are renting for 800 a room?

Tim  

Very nice Mohawk.

Erwin  

I don’t know the numbers, but they have this exact same issue. Yeah, there’s nothing to rent. And they already there’s nothing to rent, let alone student rentals. So rents have gone through the roof. Yeah, so the product rents are probably up around 30%.

Tim  

Yeah. Which makes sense. So those landlords probably have to suffer through two years of nothing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, to get

Erwin  

payback time. Yeah. So Yeah, crazy, crazy pendulum swings

Tim  

is funny how it changes. I mean, there’s, I’m sure there’s people who bought houses and 20 years ago, and they’re just sitting on them. And, you know, they don’t need it yet. But you know, one of the a lot of the bold moves I’ve made in my life have been as a result of conversations with my wife, she normally gets there before me mentally, where she’s like, just go for it, we’ll work it out. And, you know, part of that was, when we lived in Ontario, and I bought some of the student rentals houses, I started doing joint ventures with people where they would, you know, qualify for the mortgage, and I would take care of the investment. And all of a sudden, I decided we wanted to move to the West Coast, I said, we can’t move because I got at that point, 10 or 12, houses, some of them with other people, we can’t possibly leave all this stuff behind. And anyway, stuff my wife is like, well just sell them or tell the people you move in and see if they’re okay with you coming back, you know, once in a while to check on them and manage them remotely through a property manager. And so I say that because I find I speak to a lot of people about their lives. And they often say, Well, I can’t move because of X. And X might be a business that you’re running or family that you have, or whatever it is. And if those things are making you happy, then power to you stay where you are, but I didn’t let that hold me back. And some of the people said, Yeah, I don’t mind you having a property manager. And you know, dialling it in, so to speak. And some people decided they didn’t want to be in those investments anymore. So luckily, thank goodness that we were in a bull market housing wise, during that time and prices have gone up, we sold them they got they made a bit of money. Not as much as we would have expected if we held on to it. But yeah, that was what I wanted to do in my life. And so we just made the move and got on with it.

Erwin  

Can you share about your drag patrol experience? Positive or negative? Yeah, hated it.

Tim  

Yeah, I had some great, some great ones and some more challenging ones, I would say that, ultimately, it was beneficial to kind of get me where I am today. It’s another one of those things where it was, you know, I studied it a lot in terms of how do I meet people? How do I start conversations around real estate about investing in real estate, learning my market becoming an expert in the area? Yeah, I think like many things in business is just setting out very strong expectations at the start, this is my responsibilities. Those are your responsibilities. This is how we’re gonna we’re gonna work in one of my joint ventures who I did a few deals with was very disappointed when I said, what he said you can move no problem. And then eventually when I said I want to sell he said, Well, I wanted to keep it for even longer. I said, well, great, you know, you’re welcome to buy me out, but it’s time to move on. So again, clear plans in terms of exit, how do you move on, etc. I think it can be very beneficial, but it’s not something done lightly. You need to understand you need to know your contract inside out. You need to know your market. You need to know what you’re up to and what you do if things go wrong, because often they will so so for

Erwin  

someone who’s getting into joint ventures for example, do you have like maybe like three tips? Like you mentioned know your market? How would someone demonstrate they know their market or their strategy? For example?

Tim  

Yeah, I think you know, if you’re if your market is where you live, then it’s probably easier because you can know them know what’s going on. In my case, my market was twofold. It was Hamilton and slash St. Catharines slash welland but it was also student rentals as a niche within that so then you can get very specific around what are the rents at the moment and what’s you know, what’s happening after the pandemic with landlords and our students to renting houses and start to have a story around that whole area. And then you just going to know more than other people talk to the property managers told To the realtor’s build up your knowledge and off you go. The other thing I would say is don’t do joint ventures with family or friends. Because you know, some people are able to do that. But as soon as you sign a contract, your relationship changes from a friendly one or a family one to a business one. And people are going to be saying, where’s the money if things go wrong, or if there’s a roof needs to be replaced, and you don’t have money in the bank, and you have to do it split the capital expenditure, difficult conversations will arise. So if you can find find people who are known to you, but they’re not like, in your close circle of friends or family, that’s often good. A lot of the time people start with friends and family because it’s obviously easier to ask, you know, a dad, you want to do this thing on me. Great, but I wouldn’t deal with my dad because I love him, but it would change our relationship. And he’d be saying, how’s the house going? Naturally? We need new dishwasher. Oh, dear, that’s gonna cut into the projections.

Erwin  

discussion to have the family barbecue.

Tim  

Yeah, exactly. So I don’t know. It’s just, you know, being very conscious around how you get into it. And for me, it was learning areas in the community where I could speak to people about real estate, through hockey teams, through sports teams, there’s lots of places where you can start conversations and meet people. But most likely lots of things in sales. It’s you know, lots of coffee dates, lots of conversations, building up my repertoire of expertise, doing some on my own initially before I asked other people, so then you have some stories to tell.

Erwin  

Very, very right. Before we were recording, I mentioned something about private lending. My thing is, I generally don’t like private lending for myself, but just imagine the conversation should you have lent to somebody? Yeah. And then the deals going sideways. So you’d like to have flipper flippers or having real challenges right now. And then the conversation after that, like, Hey, where’s my money? Yeah. Oh, you don’t have any money? So I guess I’ll be taking the house from you then. Your friendship be after that.

Tim  

I mean, it’s, it’s difficult, right? Very difficult,

Erwin  

especially if you like their home like ya know, split secure mortgages on their principal on people’s principal residence. Oh, I guess your home is now my house now. That’s a lovely conversation I do not want to have it’s, I stay out of it. So Tim shows called trust by real estate investing, not here, blow smoke up your ass. As I mentioned, before, we were recording, you’re in a position that many people want the way I phrased it, because I don’t want put words in your mouth way I phrased it was you could give up everything that you’re doing actively move working. If you’re a realtor, successful realtor, like you give that up, give up anything you’re doing actively. And you’ll be I consider extremely comfortable financially. Would that be right?

Tim  

Yeah. I mean, that’s kind of long been the goal is to have I mean, people talk about real estate as passive income. It’s not really

Erwin  

me owning Enbridge shares is passive, I call that I’ll say that’s my baseline for passive. It’s very different than being a landlord of one property.

Tim  

Yeah, I wouldn’t say it’s always passive mentally, because people get a bit funny about checking stock prices and looking at their portfolio too much. But, but you’d have to do anything. Because there’s no you don’t have to phone anybody or unclog any toilets or anything like that. It’s just it just happens on its own. So then it becomes it does become a mental game of like, can you detach from having to check it regularly. And we can talk a bit about the market and stuff and how I used to wake up and before I went to bed, I’d be looking at the futures and I’d wake up and look at the pre market and then look at the post market and all this stuff in between. So I’ve kind of evolved from that as well, in terms of just what’s comfortable for me. And one of the interesting things I learned was that different people have different tolerance levels for risk. And different people have different tolerance levels for like how much they want to be involved in, in making money. One thing I remember this interview I heard on a YouTube video, I think, but this seasoned professional investor basically said, like, the things that make you the most money are not the things that give you the most peace of mind. So choose what do you want most of peace of mind or the most money? Good that I love that? Yeah, peace of

Erwin  

mind is inversely related to money,

Tim  

or money. So people who want very stable, wake up and know how much money they all the time then maybe they’re in GICs are very low. I mean, at the moment, you’re, you’re a melting ice cube in that respect, because it because of inflation, but you know, that’s the baseline. And then obviously, at the high end, you’ve got things like crypto or very volatile things or, you know, things which, you know, stops or SPACs or whatever the, you know, that sort of stuff is so, yeah, there’s something for everybody. It’s just knowing, knowing where you want to be and where you want to get to.

Erwin  

I love it. Because I was literally talking to a friend who’s one of the most successful crypto investors. I know, at the dinner table. Someone actually asked him like, what’s the price of Aetherium right now? So you actually don’t even know I haven’t checked in a month and a half. Even though his investment is highly volatile. He’s not checking in checking the month and a half. Yeah, it’s crazy. Yeah, crazy. No, but your point is actually very healthy. And then I also before we’re Recording is not talked about balance. Yeah. Right. for periods of time, if for if you want to get ahead in life, you will have times of complete imbalance. Yeah, you’ve actually laid that out a couple of times already, and just sharing what you shared so far. Yeah.

Tim  

I mean, it’s, it’s absolutely true in terms of I mean, if you look at the fire movement, or, and for people who don’t know, this, you know, financially independent, retire early,

Erwin  

that’s you. Yeah,

Tim  

I mean, I can qualify for that, although I’m not, I still enjoy what I love real estate as a job, if you will, from a realtor point of view. But that whole mantra is about like, in that case, like extreme frugality, maybe, which I haven’t necessarily done, but they some people do extreme frugality, save loads of money, save 70 or 80% of their income so that when they’re 45, instead of 65, they can choose to stop working. In my case, it wasn’t necessarily the extreme frugality route was just, you know, doubling down on efforts with regard to investing in real estate, I never have the net worth, I’ve got, I didn’t really create that through my job income, although I had salaries in the six figures all the time, that money just gets spent, you know, the more you make more you spend, it’s very hard to stop the creep have a bigger house or a newer car, and all those kinds of things are very counterculture, you have to be very uncommon, as David Goggins would say, you have to be very uncommon to not fall into the trap of trying to kind of grow into income growth. And so for me, yeah, it was kind of like this very, we can talk about the brass tacks of it. But at the very hard work of building up the real estate portfolio, it doesn’t escape me that like, a huge part of building up my nest egg was on the basis that the real estate market has been trending in the right direction, when I started working with you was around 2010, you could have bought any house anyway, and sold it 10 years later and doubled your money, at least, if not more, right? And so, but even then we were even back in 2010, we’re talking about right? The people who do best in, you know, that time real estate, who the people who come before us were people who took action, they said, right, this is what we’re gonna do, we’re gonna go for it. There’s lots of people who came to your sessions, and they said, Oh, I don’t know. And, you know, think about it. And I’d say, you know, $250,000, for a single family home that you can rent out for three grand a month seems expensive.

Erwin  

I want a cheaper.

Tim  

I mean, you know, I remember people talk about it, and it relates to housing and the stock market and everything, it’s time in the market, not timing the market. And that remains to be true to this day. Because until you actually get some skin in the game and start to work and do stuff, you don’t have any exposure to the upside, which will ultimately come back again. I mean, as human history repeats itself, which it seems to be pretty good at doing, things continue to go up over time. This is obviously blood sweat. And we’re kind of going through one at the moment. There’s lots of times where things slow down. But you know, it was COVID, it was the 2008 mortgage crisis at the moment, we’ve got inflation going on and wars, and they’ll always be something. But if you consistently sort of work during that time, then then you can you can build stuff up.

Erwin  

So Tim, you mentioned time in the market. So my understanding is you have nothing in the market right now in terms of real estate.

Tim  

Yeah, and and it wasn’t,

Erwin  

I’d love to market.

Tim  

Grand Design, I didn’t have this grand design. actually weirdly, a lot of it was just like, if you think about like 10 years from when I started, a lot of it was I signed a five year mortgage here renewed, I signed another five year mortgage commitment. And that just came up in the last year or two. And I just thought I don’t want to do this again. And this was with no foresight to rising interest rates on mortgages. So they’re gonna do this again, I looked at the numbers, I was like, this house has done pretty well, I’m just gonna sell it and take the money in many cases, because those houses were in Ontario, and I’m not. So I just thought, right, now’s a good time to sell, you know, the, there’s no mortgage penalty to just sell this at the moment. And so I just started doing that, and kind of putting money in the bank, essentially, with a view to, you know, getting some more ideas. I had a condo in Nanaimo, which did very well. And then, you know, decided to sell that one. And then you’re homeless. So homeless now. Yeah. And then the house we lived in, we did some renovations to it, we decided we wanted to live in a different part of town basically, and have slightly more space. And so again, it was just kind of like, well, the housing markets, good time to sell or sell it. Now, some people might think what I’m doing at the moment is a risky move. I don’t because I feel like it gives me maximum flexibility. So I sold all the houses I had and kind of effectively liquidated all of those went to went to cash. And I’m renting my house that I live in now. If I were to buy this house, it would cost about 1.6 million. It’s a block away from the ocean. It’s a beautiful house. I managed to get I think a reasonable rent price for a couple of years commitment, but I think you know, and then after that people might say well, I want certainty. I want to own my primary residence and great I don’t really care and in two years time when this is up people though I extend it, or I’ll have the beautiful opportunity to experience something new and go and find somewhere else. So,

Erwin  

but you have that flexibility because you’re pretty wealthy?

Tim  

Well, I don’t know about that. But yeah, I took that, you know, I took the funds that I had from those sales, and then started to look around for like, how do I, I’m still, you know, still have that dream of, you know, the, the cross hairs on my spreadsheet of my passive income is greater than my expenses. That’s all I was really trying to get to. And I use, you know, it’s pretty boring and takes a bit of time. But I log every expense that we have as a family into this app on my phone. I categorise it. And that was our call. Let me just my phone up. It’s just called spending, actually, the apps just called spending, and it’s like a little, it looks like a little wallet. But yeah, so I sit down my wife, we got a budget, there’s how much for rent and utilities and kids sports and going out for dinner and groceries and all that stuff. We have a category for everything. So we know what our budget is, I love all the spending, we sit down every couple of weeks and say right, where are we versus x Oh, we can afford to go out for dinner because we’ve, we haven’t really used that budget enough, or we’re a little bit high on fill in the blank, we need to figure it out. We’ve actually got it down to be of a bit of an art now. But one of the cool things about that app is that it draws a graph for you. So I put it in my passive income, I put in my expenses. And the axes have now crossed, meaning that the passive income is higher than the expenses are which, which, again, back to the fire thing is kind of the definition of being financially independent, because you could stop other sources of income and still pay all your bills, we actually have quite a high burn rate, if you will, at the moment as a family because you know, my kids are two my kids are teenagers, they’re in loads of sports, we want to travel and things are expensive. Life’s expensive at the moment. Right? So yeah, so that’s kind of I went from having the houses and really wanting to get, you know, my ultimate goal in 2010. When I started all this was like how do I, how do I replace my income. So it’s taken me 12 years, but now I’ve replaced my income, or I’ve got enough money to pay the bills. And that we can talk more about how I do that. But ultimately, through one of the courses I took with you, which was around options trading, again, talking about the sort of amount of hands on they wanted to have, I found that I didn’t want to have that much hands on stuff. But I loved the model, I love the model of like, generating premium from positions in the market, whether you’re selling naked puts or doing cover calls. That concept was something I really enjoyed. So I learned how to do that, and did that for for a year sort of solidly through various ups and downs, and had some sort of moderate success, but it took my time away. And so through that I then came across some of these funds, ETFs and closed end funds and various other things which use a covered call strategy. And most of these are available through Bank of Montreal, for instance, as a bunch of these. And there’s various other companies in Canada that do them as well. But they take positions on companies and dividend paying companies and they sell chemicals on them. Yeah, boring stuff. You know, it’s Derek foster stuff is toothpaste and toilet roll. And, you know, like we were talking about earlier Enbridge, all the blue chip stuff, basically, and they sell cover calls against those positions, and they manage it, and they pay you a little fee, but the percentage return you get is net of those fees. And yeah, I just was opened up to this whole world of, Wow, I could just put my money into these. And you know, they’re they’re broadly going to track the s&p 500 and the NASDAQ and the Dow Jones and stuff based on what category they’re in, I don’t have to think about it. And I’d have to look at it. And they just, it’s like this weird magic thing happens where on the 15th of the month, they just put money in my account. And I can either buy more shares, and you know, drip is what they call it dividend reinvestment programme, I can either do that, or I can take the money out and pay my bills with it or, or go on holiday or do whatever I want to do. So I like that. And a lot of the community that I have found through that are people who are already retired. And like you, yeah, and so yeah. And so yeah, I just I’m like I could, this is great. I can just keep growing it and putting stuff in I can take some out. At the moment. I’m not touching it because I’m still doing well with being a realtor and paying the bills that way. But knowing having that peace of mind and knowing I don’t have to is worth his weight in gold, because that’s what I’ve been trying to I’ve been trying to climb that mountain for a long time.

Erwin  

So Tim, you’ve shared me in private what what you’ve invested. Can you share how much you’re getting a month in passive income?

Tim  

Yeah, I mean, we talked about, you know, north of $10,000 a month in passive income. Yeah, for the listeners

Erwin  

better for Tim and I talked about what he what he’s wanting to share, because originally we were gonna say five figures but as to abstract, it can be 90,000 it can be 10,000 but different. There’s just why Have over 10,000 So yeah, let’s say 10 to 15 grand a month. Fantastic. Thank you. So a very tasty six figure passive income. Yeah. And passive by your standards, which I think you probably have the highest standards in terms of passivity, right? Because you know, lots of real estate investors say the farm buildings are passive. Yeah. Well, a friend of mine has tenants protesting outside his father in law’s place of work. Yeah, for peace of mind.

Tim  

I mean, because of the, you know, the apps we use and the technology is amazing. Now, you can trade stuff on your phone, or again, you can like with any with all these brokerages, you can just turn on the reinvesting programme. So when your shares get paid out, whatever your dividend is $100, or go and buy you 10 more shares in the company. And that will just rinse and repeat. And by the wonder of compound interest, if you make a 10% return your money doubles every seven years, which is absolutely crazy, right with just how it works. And so I was recently went to the UK for three weeks on holiday, the longest hole I’ve had in years. And on the middle week, we went to this little island called Lanza rotting, which is owned by the Spanish I suppose. But off the coast of northwest Africa is in a bit of a weird spot, the Canary Islands, and I remember sat on a sat on the lounge one day and I pulled up the app on my phone, I was like, Oh, the dividends just came in and dropped a few $1,000 in my account. And I was like no, I’m gonna reinvest that. But it’s that’s you know, is the sort of passive side of dividends is a is a beautiful thing, which I know you’ve talked about before with Derrick Foster, and some of the companies you can buy directly and get dividends. And then there’s these other funds where you can buy the ETF and because they use covered calls, they get a little enhanced amount of dividend.

Erwin  

And we realised but yes, tax optimise

Tim  

tax optimised, obviously covered calls and options trading in general is benefits from volatility. So like in the current market, we’ve got them, no doubt their premiums are pretty good. So but yeah, it’s kind of one of those, for me, it’s like a long term buy and hold, set it and forget it, I don’t need to look at it, it just you check your account once every couple of weeks. And there’s there’s money in there. Because it just, it just works like they pay when they say they’re gonna pay, you know, chasing people for rent, like these big, multinational companies, and they just put up the money in your account, you don’t do anything. So I don’t know what could be more passive than that. Like I said, the only non passive part of it is for people who get a little bit in their head about checking their portfolio, and what’s the portfolio value, and oh, my god, the market is down 2% today, so I’ve lost this much money. Well, no, you haven’t because it’s unrealized. So you just, you know, I was reading this book the other day, by a guy called Andrew Hallam. And he was basically saying that the best investors in this study who did the study, but the best investors are either dead, or they’ve lost their login details for their account. And what that means is, is that, you know, human interaction as it relates to tinkering with your portfolio is going to make you do worse, not better. If you’re buying like an index fund, like a vfv, or something which tracks the s&p 500. You just like, buy it, and then don’t touch it again. Whereas people want to think that they can beat the market or tinker around too much. And they just end up making mistakes. And that’s kind of one of the odd things for me as a previous real estate investor, you don’t get rewarded really for taking action in trading. In the method, I’m doing it you get rewarded for patients, you get rewarded for doing nothing like them. Just don’t, don’t touch anything. Just collect the dividends, reinvest them, spend them, do whatever you want, but then start trading in and out of things because they’re having a bad day or a bad week.

Erwin  

Well, it’s a bad year right now, but your, your doesn’t bother you?

Tim  

No, I mean, actually, like dividend investing is ideal for a bear market. Because whilst everybody else is like, Oh, my God, my portfolio is down 20%. Well, mine might be down a bit, but I’m getting paid every month. So then when I take that bunch of money and buy shares, and actually buy more shares at a cheaper price, because the market is down, so when it eventually recovers, then happy days. So actually, I mean, you know, I can’t remember the name of the person who said it. But some old wise man said that, if you’re young, and you’re still in the building phase of your investment portfolio, you should get down on your hands and knees and pray for a bear market. Because it’s the best possible opportunity to build wealth. You’re not gonna build wealth with like 2021 highs, because you’re buying at the at the top you wanted to be like, I mean, look at the people who bought at the crash of 2020. If you’re somebody who bought the bottom of that valley, by some kind of miracle, and just sat on it, you’d be, you know, double, triple your money or whatever it is.

Erwin  

You’re laughing. Yeah. So I don’t know if I told you but I’m incredibly proud of you. Thank you,

Tim  

you and my mom.

Erwin  

I haven’t shared this with you, but we’re always changing stock hacker Academy, when we’re doing even more things within it, to try to encourage people to have your kind of your kind of results. Right? I don’t know how to explain it. Yeah. Well unveil it on number 12. Yeah, it just again, understand your journey or gave us ideas on things what we should highlight more in the course and spend more time on it. Okay. So for example, Derek, Derek is involvement is greater than ever. And also, Derek’s actually positive on the year if you can imagine that. Yeah, it means invest in retired 20 years successfully. And I’m really excited to see to share with with our community the new product that comes out number 12, that we announced in November 12. Yeah. So actually, you have a podcast or on anxiety. And you talked about anxiety earlier? Is that part of the reason why you wanted something in investment? That gives maximum peace of mind? Yeah,

Tim  

absolutely. Like, I know, my own mind in terms of worrying and trust me, like, I don’t even look at the news on my phone, or on my computer, I don’t have Facebook or Instagram on my phone anymore, because I don’t realise that those things trigger me as a person. And of course, everybody’s different. But I think that peace of mind is worth for me not having to check those things. And knowing that I could literally like, you know, go on a silent meditation retreat for six months and come back and everything would be fine. Makes me feel really good. I’m still there’s still things I want to achieve in financial terms and things I want to achieve in life. But I’m sort of acutely aware of the fact that we only have one life in terms of amount of time to spend or put things to put attention on. And at the moment, my kids require a lot of my attention. So it’s nice to be able to give it to them. And and so yeah, through my podcast, the anxiety podcast, I talk about financial stuff on there sometimes but but yeah, for a style is definitely something that fits well with with me in terms of not having to be plugged in. Because if you look at CNBC or any of the financial websites, they are, there’s red tickers and crazy things going on and flashing lights, and it’s designed to make us scared like the the fear and greed index is a real thing and angry to make you Yeah, the trigger. And we yeah, we know that the financial experts are correct 43% of the time, so you’d actually be better off flipping a coin to decide what the future is going to be like than asking a financial expert on TV. So yeah, based on all those things, it’s kind of like, what’s the point of looking like for to have somebody’s opinion on whether inflation is going to get better or worse, or the stock market’s going to crash worse than ever, or this is the bottom is gonna bounce and go up. Like, it’s just all completely irrelevant. If you’ve got dividend money coming in, you’re reinvesting it or spending it, you’re in things because you know, we’re going to be around for the long term, like, you just don’t need to, you don’t need to engage in that.

Erwin  

So you’re just for kind of an extra anxiety, I’d imagine a lot of people have anxiety did a lack of money. But it’s funny, like, we have to be able to tolerate a lot of anxiety, being professional investors, in order to get to where you are, which is like no anxiety.

Tim  

You never really escape it completely. I think it’s a human emotion. Weirdly, when I started the podcast, I feel like anxiety was a much more stigmatised word. But after the pandemic, everybody seems to relate to it in some way, in terms of like, uncertainty around the future. But yeah, I think, I think it’s definitely finding something that people without a lot of money are more anxious around me and their basic needs, you know, they might think of retirement as like a luxury that they can’t get to. But that’s just when the work comes in. You know, that’s when you just start putting away wherever you can, and start building up the snowball wherever you can, and getting it rolling. And if that includes looking a bit harder or working on, you know, purchasing a house, and again, some appreciation that way. That’s the way it goes. You know, sometimes you’re not opposed

Erwin  

to people taking on more in order to get ahead. But back at some point,

Tim  

yeah, I think there’s times in your life when you need to sprint based on your age and your circumstances, there’s things I wouldn’t do to get ahead. Now I might have done in the past, but you know, people are often talking about, I’m going to take a look at home equity line of credit, not quite as good these days, because interest rates are bonkers. But people historically might have taken a home equity line of credit invested it, you know, borrow that 3% invest in something making 10% and then arbitrage money that way. It’s nice not to have to do that. It’s just weird being at this stage in my life, where it’s the first time I’ve ever not had a mortgage or a car payment or any commitment beyond just you know, basic living expenses, that’s probably the best feeling to have is that I could save money based on our expenses or at the moment, we just don’t need to at the moment, but if I had to sort of tighten the belt a little bit, for whatever reason, we could do that. I mean, there’s even with dividend paying stocks, you know, in extreme circumstances, they do sometimes reduce the dividend a little bit or stopped paying him for a couple of months but it seems to take very, I mean, there’s lots of in a dividend aristocrats or companies have been paying dividends monthly for 50 years. As you know, so if you think of everything we’ve been through, it’s going to take quite a lot to upset that applecart.

Erwin  

If something really bad happened if like one of our banks stopped paying dividends, from

Tim  

Canada with all banks and utilities, companies and stuff is extremely strong. And then obviously a lot of these funds will then invest in like the NASDAQ or tech companies as well. Tech companies are obviously recent, all time lows at the moment. So it’s good to undertake some up but yeah, that’s the the other thing about the mindset is, is that you get into this mindset, like Green Days are kind of nice in terms of the market, because we’re all is happy and things are going up. And then red days is like well, this is an opportunity to in a dividend paying stock world. As the price drops, the yield gets higher, assuming the dividends stays the same. So ones where they’ve you know, there’s there’s a fund in Canada called ei t, which is a canoe fund has been around since 1997. It pays 10 cents per share per month. And it’s it goes through lots of periods of time where it costs you around $12. So you’re gonna get 10% per thing that’s been paying out 10% since 1997. Seems pretty good. Right? And they hold if you look at what they hold on hold like Bell Canada, and Ambridge isn’t Johnson? Yeah, they actually don’t have a very light on tech actually, which is why they consistently do well. But yeah, they’re basically very much in the staples in the staples game. So that is an example.

Erwin  

It doesn’t move much. But but but it because it pays. Yeah.

Tim  

And again, it’s a mindset change from growth investing where you buy Tesla, and it goes from 200 to 1000. And or

Erwin  

even buy houses argue that this is a bit of a growth strategy. Yeah,

Tim  

the dividend stocks, a lot of them are just like flatline. Price wise. They go up and down with the with the turns, whacked the banks have been whacked lately. Yeah, but you have to in order to look at the real return, you got to factor in the dividend return. And if you factor in 10% a year and compounded over time, then they may not make quite as much as the growth model as in just investing in the s&p 500. But it’s pretty close. And it’s way less stressful. So if you made like nine and a half percent instead of 10 and a half percent, but you get there’s something psychological about getting paid every month, because we’re so culture to get wages and salaries and all this stuff from our whole lives, see him money get dropped into your account every month for me, it just makes me feel good. Versus riding the growth train, which might make you more money in the long term. But it’s just a personal preference, right? You can’t put a price on mental health and how you feel about things.

Erwin  

Tim, apologies for being nosy, but probably about two of our 17 listeners will want to know how much does one need to invest to, to generate 1210 to 15,000 and passive income a month get accounted for you want to see it?

Tim  

Well, if you think about the $4 million, right? I mean, if you think about percentage returns, then my portfolio maybe averages 10 or 11%. So you can reverse engineer them out from there. Some of these very safe and steady. I think he it is like pretty much a golden goose as it relates to the type of thing I’m talking about the canoe Fund is a great example. But if you buy the right time, like I did, it pays 10%. And a lot of people would think that’s like a lot of old school people think 10% is a very aggressive, great return. The other beautiful thing about dividends depending on your province is they’re taxed extremely efficiently. If you live in, you know, Ontario, British Columbia, for instance, you can make like 100 grand of eligible dividend income and pay by a small amount of tax on it as it relates to, you know, employment income. So there’s things like that as well. And if you share it with your spouse, and there’s all sorts of other cool stuff to check out, but But yeah, if you could build a portfolio around 10%, then there’s lots of opportunities to do that with things which will consistently pay out. There’s also once the payout 15% and 20%. And getting aggressive. Yes. There are some there are some crypto ones which are a bit newer, and they pay a dividend. And you also hold crypto as well. And they’ve bought some of those they’ve dropped a bit and they reduce the dividend but you just again, you just sit on it and wait. And that will go through its own evolutionary cycle and

Erwin  

come back. Right, folks, this is financial advice,

Tim  

  1. financial advice. And as we talked about earlier, like there’s things I’ve done in my investing career where I’ve done some some mortgage lending, and it hasn’t worked out and I’ve lost money. Now everything you think is going to be the holy grail in terms of getting that passive income goes completely away. But I just you know, I just set it to the side as a learning experience and move on and try and find something else. And the way I’m doing at the moment may change and may alter as well. It’s just based on the world and the ability to make money. I think investing in large companies that have been around for for decades and decades seems to be a pretty steady road to just build things up. So there’s some

Erwin  

way stock hacking follows this very similar model to the funds that you’re investing in. Yeah, boring stocks, sell cover calls. And you know, I can I try to target like 10% returns. But But 10% is much better tax wise, when versus people who are lending for 10%. Like knowing what you know, now, would you ever lend your money again? No, especially your tax rate?

Tim  

Yeah. But it’s also just because for peace of mind, like I just don’t need I don’t need to do that. And anybody phoned me up, I don’t have to phone anybody else up. I mean, that’s

Erwin  

you control your money? Yeah, you could push buttons, it will be cash in your bank account.

Tim  

Yeah. And like I said, most of you know, I don’t do the when I first started, I did the drip thing, which is just as soon as you get paid out X amount of shares, or buy as many as it can, that you got paid in the dividend in the same company. Now I just, I get it all paid in cash. And then I just sit there and look at my portfolio and say, right, where do I want to top up percentages to make sure I have, it’s kind of like, diversity within diversity, because the funds themselves hold a bunch of companies. Some of the funds hold a bunch of other funds inside them. So they’re, it’s pretty universal diversified. And then I’m diversified myself in terms of like, I’d like to have not too much with any one particular provider and kind of spread out that way. So yeah, I don’t foresee any large changes, there are people and I know of people who are in where we’re at, at the moment, they say, right, when real estate comes down, again, they’re gonna get aggressive and start buying a bunch of properties. I just don’t, I don’t want to do that. Because I just like the easy life, to be honest. And I just like the the peace of mind is more valuable to me than trying to double my money again, again, as we talked earlier, I’m still working and bringing revenue in. So at the moment, I just reinvest in my, my dividends anyway. So it is continuing to grow just by virtue of leaving it alone.

Erwin  

So gonna have the benefit of having private conversations from you, but you have the option that work as much as you want, and not work as much as you want, right? Yeah,

Tim  

yeah, yeah, I’m a realtor. So I can, you know, during the two years of the pandemic, I was extremely busy, like a lot of realtors, and a built up a really nice base of clients. So now I just spend a lot of time taking care of them, and following up with them and making sure they’re taken care of and catching up with them. And, you know, I feel very fortunate with the job because it’s a lot of hopping around to see people for a cup of tea, or going out for a coffee or something. And I built my realtor business through prospecting, like crazy as well. So it’s the same kind of model where I spent a long, you know, I’d sit down for three hours a day in front of my computer, I would run Google ads, and I would just cold call, and phone people. And I pull up lists from the phone numbers from the internet. And I would go knock on people’s doors or their houses and just hustle hard, seven days a week for 18 months to build up a bit of a base. And then it’s kind of like, you know, like all these things, it’s kind of like launching a rocket or taking an aeroplane taking off, most of your fuel is used to get started. And then once you’re started is like right now I can, some days only work for a few hours, because I’m just going to phone a few key customers maybe have a meeting and then I’m like, I’m good, it’s fine. Now historically, I would have beat myself up and said, you need to do eight hours because at some point, somebody in history said nine to five, Monday to Friday, that’s the industrial thing to do. But now with the passive income working for me as well, I just think that, you know, if I’ve got the opportunity to hang out with the kids, or, you know, sometimes I just stop at lunchtime, and I go and work out in my gym. And that’s good. I can invest in myself then, which is important. So I love the freedom that it gives me to do those sorts of things. And I just feel very fortunate that I started in the moment in history when I did, and I worked out well. We have lots of I have lots of stories about opportunities I missed out on you know, I worked for a tech company, in my younger years that ended up getting acquired and I it turns out, I left like eight months before they got acquired and lost all my share options, which again would have been a nice big chunk of money. So you know, not everything works out. But I think if you keep trying and putting in the effort in then you kind of get there. So

Erwin  

amazing. Yeah. All right. Tim, we’re over time can ask you any final thoughts you want to share?

Tim  

I think my final my you know, the the thing that I’m sort of most conscious of at the moment is just how we spend time in our lives. And making sure you invest in the things which are really important to you. And if you’re at the stage where you’re still in the accumulation phase, and that’s, you know, listen to podcasts, reading books, get involved in communities where people are aggressively learning skills and trying to do things I think is a great place to spend it. That’s where I did and as I said to you offline before we started recording, I’ve always been the kind of person I like right real estate invest in student rentals. Let’s go now just like read all the books and take all the courses and meet all the people and you know, just I don’t know what it is my competitive upbringing environment that I want to learn as much as I possibly can to exploit this opportunity when

Erwin  

Never a competitive hockey player. Right? Yeah, exactly. being competitive.

Tim  

Yeah. And then yeah, and then I get, you know, I conquer that thing, whatever it happens to be, and I get there and I think I’m gonna do something different. So get stuck in and don’t be afraid to change. You know, I’ve gone from working in sales for a tech company and I started the anxiety podcast, I started coaching people life coach style stuff didn’t quite jive with that. So I kept the podcast, but went back to work for a real estate company, then I became a realtor. And so lots of my friends like you all over the place. And I’m like, Well, yeah, because I’m trying to improve my life. And I’m not gonna be satisfied with just, you know, this, isn’t it? And I’m not just going to do this to get a pension. I’m going to change me. We’re afraid to change.

Erwin  

Pretty cool. Don’t be afraid to change. Sam, thanks so much for doing this. Thank you for being open and honest, show us culture has been a real estate investing. That’s why SEO again, and again, I’m so proud of you for your success.

Tim  

Yeah, thank you. I you know, I attribute a lot of it. So relationships like ours, but we’ve just been continuing to keep in touch and all the help you gave me at the start. And yeah, it’s been good so far.

Erwin  

Amazing. All right, thank you again.

Erwin  

Before you go, if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow. But with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there. Forgive the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more, but it’s true for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself what so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

To Follow Tim Collins:

Website: https://www.timjpcollins.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/timjpcollins

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timjpcollins/?originalSubdomain=ca

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timjpcollins/

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 

 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Building in Florida, Investing in Glamping in Ontario With Andrew Hines

Hello, back to school and back to routine, hahaha.

On top of that, welcome to another episode of the Truth About Real Estate Show, where we’re on this journey together for the most efficient path to our financial goals.

 
 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Erwin Szeto (@erwinszeto)

A quick note on financial goals: everyone is different, and that’s totally cool. Much like fitness routines, some want to be competitive bodybuilders, some want to garden.  Whatever one’s fitness program is, it’s better to do something, anything at all, than to do nothing.

I believe the same for investing; we all have different goals however, just like fitness, in my experience with investing and having 500 clients, including 45 self-made millionaire investors, the speed and efficiency one can arrive at their goal can improve with education.

What this downturn in the markets has shown me is how, sadly, many made uneducated decisions: more cash flow management, renovations, speculative purchases, and overleveraging.  This current market will sadly flush out the weaker investors and investments, while in my experience, we’re hearing from our clients they are buying and readying to buy in this dip.

Who knows if our timing is right, but my research is telling me this could be 2008 all over again: the best buying opportunity of our generation.

Only time will tell.

I’m trying something new with my morning routine. I’m coming into the office early while it’s quiet to get my non-urgent, important work done, for example, producing this podcast, completing the new book I’m writing, preparing for our iWIN Meeting on September 17th, a condensed economic update as part of my preparation for the Nov 12th Wealth Hacker Conference.

The Wealth Hacker Conference is a summary of Cherry and I’s journey as entrepreneurs and investors to the present. 

I used to be all about making tons of money, owning a 100 property portfolio, but my ambitions tempered once we got married and had kids hence we’re always looking for ways to grow our businesses, investment portfolio, and cash flow streams hence we have leading experts speaking to real estate, stock hacking, cryptocurrency while balancing happiness and raising kids. 

Cherry’s talk will focus on cash flow management as it’s a subject that’s extremely important in this current market and will likely save many small businesses and real estate investors from losing their shirts, as many have in the past 2.5 years.

That’s the IQ side. 

On the EQ or emotional quotient side, it’s been too long since our close community of investors has been together.

I literally almost shed tears at Seth’s multifamily conference in May as I haven’t seen so many of you for two or more years.  Thankfully I get invited to some smaller private, in-person events, but that’s hardly inclusive to our wider community, and based on who’s already bought tickets or sponsorship, pretty much all the who’s who are going to be there.

If you’re from out of town, start making plans for your road trip now, e.g. my friends coming from Ottawa all carpool and the networking on the road trip alone is worth coming.

Speaking of road trips, I drove our Model Y Tesla two hours up north for a golf tournament. Thank goodness it was the best ball as I was more terrible than usual, having not swung a club for over two weeks.  Joining me on the road trip were good friends Hussein Kudrati, the real estate lawyer and Kevin Hyunh of Empire Mortgages.  

From my experience at iWIN real estate, we’re seeing the best deals I can recall over the last 12 months. 

Hussein and Kevin shared their experiences and noticed the same: great deals. 

Yes, the real estate market could continue to decline as fear is high as we’re not seeing much competition from regular home buyers. We are, of course, being more conservative with cash flow forecasts, stress testing higher interest rates and longer lead times for permits and renovations.

One positive I’m hearing is with so many big players postponing projects, there will be more contractors available for work. Prices haven’t gone down, but at least renos can get done.

How long does that last? I doubt even 12 months, but we will see.

Building in Florida, Investing in Glamping in Ontario With Andrew Hines

On to this week’s show!

Our guest Andrew Hines I believe, needs little to no introduction.

He graduated from the top Business School in Canada based on my biased opinion of also graduating from the same school. 

Andrew is one of the good ones, having shared his losses investing in Ohio early in his investor journey; he’s built townhouse complexes and invested in high-end student rentals. 

Currently, he’s more focused on diversification by developing and building in Florida plus a start-up, 90-acre, high-end campground.

We talk about economics, where the market is going and when/where Andrew thinks there will be opportunities.

Have your pens and notepads ready!

 Please enjoy the show!

 

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show, I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and me.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and, more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future, knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you, too, are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so, but for now, we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel; we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you by www.stockhackeracademy.ca, where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle, as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full-time musician who just made a 50% return in 2021.  Past, of course, does not predict the future, but if you’d like a free demonstration, go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right and click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration, I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners, and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

 

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

 

Erwin  

Hello, welcome back to back to school and back to routine. On top of that welcome to another episode of The Truth about real estate investing show where we’re here on this journey together for the most efficient path to our financial goals. I believe the same for investing that we all have different goals hence no different than like fitness. In my experience with investing and having 500 clients, including 45 self made millionaire investor clients, the speed and efficiency one can arrive at their goal can improve with education. What this downturn in the market is showing me is how sadly, how many made I made good decisions around math cashflow management, renovations, speculative purchases and being over leveraged. It’s really sad out there. Fortunately, that’s not our clients experience them just speaking to other stories I’m hearing about from other groups of the current market will sadly flush out the weaker investors and investments in while in my experience we’re hearing from our clients that they are ready to buy in getting ready to buy in this dip. Just this past weekend at the meeting, I was sharing an MLS listing how this is the first time I can recall in a really long time where the pictures in the listing show a property in the middle of a renovation, for example, the kitchen is no longer there previous kitchens and taken out. So you just see patched drywall, and the bathroom, for example. There’s no toilet, the walls haven’t been painted yet, the tile shower has not been grounded yet. And then doing some for some context. Unfortunately, the seller purchased earlier in the spring, near the peak. And they’re renovating and looks like they ran out of money. So now they’re actually listing the property for a couple 100,000 less than they purchased it for. So these are not my clients. But yeah, like I mentioned, some of the weaker investors will be flushed out in this market. It’s really sad. It’s really sad. For ourselves though we don’t know if our timings gonna be perfect. We have no idea. But from the research from doing a lot of reading, this could be 2008 all over again, I don’t think this will be bad as bad as 2008 Real Estate this can be the best buying opportunity of our generation. Only time will tell I my crystal balls is as good as yours. On a personal note, I’m trying something new with my morning routine. I’m sharing kids, this helps anyone can walk into their office early before anyone else does. While it’s quiet to get my non urgent important work done. For example, I’m recording this podcast, I completed a new book and I’m writing. I’ve been prepping for all these presentations at the give including the one meeting that does pass on September 17, I had to work on a condensed economic update, which will form part of my presentation for the November 12 wealth hacker conference. Then uncovering some really interesting stuff, I think actually caught our government and some lies that are published on their own website. And I’ll be sharing these sorts of things at the wealth hacker conference. For those who don’t know, the conference is a summary of China’s journey as entrepreneurs and investors to the present. When I first started, I used to be all about making tonnes of money. Before I own a couple properties. I actually had a goal of owning having 100 property portfolio but my ambitions have since tempered you know after we got married and had kids parties changed, but we are always looking for efficient means to grow our businesses our investment portfolio and add to our cash flow streams. Hence we have leading experts on all the topics that you the listener interested plus I’m personally interested in well, we have someone who retired from stock investing. He’s a faculty member of soccer academy and Derek Foster. We have a cryptocurrency expert coming on it but also we have Jesse it sir, because he he’s at a point where he’s all about balance, Jesse is worth over 200 million, so he’s very rarely rich. But once you achieve a certain point of wealth and success, focus on it’s a change towards balancing happiness, raising your kids time with their parents, because our parents won’t be here forever. I think we all know that cherries talk will focus more on cash flow management as a subject that’s extremely important in this current market, and will likely save many small businesses and real estate investors from losing their shirts. Now she probably helped some into prosperity as well. But yeah, many small businesses and entrepreneur, real estate investors lost their shirts in the last two and half years. Again, that’s not our clients experience. This is what we’re seeing out there in the community. So that’s the IQ side on the EQ or emotional quotient side. It’s been too long since our community of investors has been together. I literally want to shed tears that sets multifamily conference in May, as I haven’t seen so many of you in for two or more years. Thankfully, I get invited to some of the smaller private in person events, but that’s hardly inclusive, like the smaller events might be 30 people at the most, usually the more like 235 But here’s an invite to the to be more inclusive to our wider community. And based on who’s already bought tickets and our sponsors, pretty much all the who’s who’s gonna be there. If you’re from out of town, please start making your plans for the road trip now. I plan a road trip like connect with others in your community, in your local community. For example, why Friends from Ottawa give me a large, pretty large contingent. We’re all going to somebody’s going to carpool. And you know, just do the journey together, meet up at the Big Apple together.

 

Erwin  

keep that conversation going on real estate and whatever else you’re interested in building wall. Speaking of road trips, I drove our model wide Tesla, two hours north for a golf tournament. This is a buddy’s golf tournament. Thank goodness it was basketball as I was terrible, more terrible than usual, having not swung a club for over two weeks. Joining me on that road trip was good friends who St. droughty, the real estate lawyer and Kevin Hayden of empire mortgages. From my experience in real estate, we’re seeing the best deals I can recall over the last 12 months. But you know, I like lots of data. So Kevin, and Kevin and Hussein being in the same industry as us, they shared their experience. And they’re also seeing great deals. Some even mentioned, they’re seeing prices back from like 2019. There are some sellers who are that motivated, they’re willing to give up the the appreciation from the last three years. Yes, the real estate market could continue to decline, as fear is at a high. And right now we’re not seeing much competition from regular homebuyers. It’s the more ambitious types like investors who are ready to get an earlier again, I think the market will keep continue going down. But again, I could be wrong. No one has a crystal ball. And we of course, in evaluating deals, being more conservative with our cash flow forecasts, or stress, testing higher interest rates, and expecting longer, longer lead times for permits and renovations. On the positive I’m hearing is that with so many big players postponing projects, like big players, like no other condo developers, there will be there’ll be more contractors available for work. Actually, that came out in the last unemployment report. When August is unemployment number came out of 5.4. The largest industry for lost jobs was actually construction. So unfortunate for them. Fortunate for us that we might have more labour available to do our own rentals. How long does that last? I don’t for very long, maybe 12 months, but we will see onto this week’s show. Our guest Andrew Hines, I believe leads little little to no introduction. He graduated from the top one of the top business schools in Canada based on my biassed opinion of also graduating from the same school. And here’s one of the good ones that’s out there. Having shared his losses early on investing in Ohio early on in his investor journey he has since built townhouse complexes. He’s invested in high end student rentals. Currently he’s focused on diversification by developing and building in Florida plus a start up 90 acre high in glamping. campground, of course, I think most of you know Andrew for him also from having one of the top podcasts in the Keene real estate investor space. We of course talk economics, we talked about where the markets going, when and where Andrew thinks there will be opportunities. So have those pens and notepads ready. This is a good one. Please enjoy the show. And your thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. Let’s get you busy these days.

 

Andrew  

A lot of things my baby boy number one eight months old, almost nine now. So yeah, that’s that’s been a change, we’ll say. And, you know, we’ve got a lot lots happened actually, since the last time I was on here. I think it’s been what a couple years now bring about long. I think it was like, right, like, started 2021. So anyways, yeah, and we headed down to Florida since then, and, you know, got into investing down there and also picked up a campground and that’s had that’s had a lot of, you know, learning experiences included, and been something I think we’ll probably talk a little bit more about today. And we’ll

 

Erwin  

definitely talk about both those things. Just Just so we’re clear that they’re mutually exclusive. But campground is not in Florida,

 

Andrew  

campgrounds. Tober. Mari and then yeah, the Florida is an entirely different endeavour. Yeah,

 

Erwin  

yeah. It’s just those those two items keep coming up in our community. Florida, generally, us investing Florida seems to be by far the most popular destination for us investing and recreational, recreational short term rental is like Yeah,

 

Andrew  

yeah, so I don’t take any credit for the sort of short term rental side of things. With the Florida side of things. I feel like this always happens to me. Anytime I talk about something a lot, a whole bunch of investors end up in the same area. So I used to talk about well, and all the time, and then all of a sudden, well, it exploded. I was you know, early on, I’m like, There’s no way I could have any impact on these things. And I’m not tooting my own horn, but when enough investors because it doesn’t take that many to drive prices up in a market or to create a little bit of a movement towards the market. So I started talking about Cape Coral last year, and now actually have like a little community of people I know, says, you know, other people thought, yeah, we’re gonna get into Florida. Hey, you know, we’re looking at St. Petersburg, we’re looking at Tampa, Sarasota. And oh, Andrew, how do the numbers work where you are? And then I tell them the numbers are like, Okay, we’re coming down there. Yeah. So it’s funny, you know, community is really what it comes to. It’s not it’s not me, per se, but the community like people talk to each other. And the word gets out when there’s things that make sense. Yeah. And I think southwest Florida when we can dive into the numbers or what have you makes a tonne of sense. And a lot of the economics haven’t made a tonne of sense. So I think when you have something like that all it takes is some chatter for and people flocked to it.

 

Erwin  

It’s gonna be we would talk forever on how you got to Florida. We’ll touch on some of the things but yeah, the whole time for sure. X and

 

Andrew  

yeah, high level we can go over all of it. I mean, I think it’s not for the faint of heart, no one’s gonna go invest internationally, you know, if they weren’t compelled for a very sincere reason to do so.

 

Erwin  

Alright, you just said a mouthful person. My intention is I don’t mean to put words in your mouth but how glad Are you that you started a lot of this stuff before you had had your first child?

 

Andrew  

I wish I had done so much more

 

Erwin  

is the funny thing is like for my experience, like for example, the majority of our clients, they don’t come start investing in real estate till their kids are a bit older. Like eight, nine years old, or in high school or after university

 

Andrew  

that’d be easier. Yeah, I mean with with a newborn. I say this to people because I had no idea I thought everyone was being dramatic when they would tell me the horror stories. Tell me the horror stories of having a kid and how Oh, you’ll have no time enjoy your sleep where you can I’m like you’re being dramatic. Could you stop you know, let’s just take it easy. No, like the like the old nice dead. And this is like a new version in Jordan and I say the same thing like the oldest died and now we have you know the current current version, which I mean, love them. He’s so much fun. We just had to accept that like that life doesn’t exist anymore. And now it’s you know, Andrew and Jordan 2.0. And, but we’re we’re changing in a positive way. Like I mean, I Speaking for myself, like just really reaching out to people are really getting help building my team. Like these are things that I could coast by before and not do these things. It became a make or break scenario. Like I had to do it or I was done.

 

Erwin  

So I apologise for the hardcore real estate nerds like myself for listening, which is like dying to get into Florida. chemtron investor Yeah, but remember, we you and I use the golf a lot together. Every almost every week, almost every week. For example, when someone can’t make a tee time like they can’t the last minute the first people aren’t calling are people like yourself the old view? Single you are not single, the people who didn’t have kids. First People I call savvy call people like you, like Charles like Steve for before he had a kid. Yo, we needed me to force like I’m there. That’s the no did you?

 

Andrew  

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that there’s room for that to come back. But I think as you know, yeah, like having a nanny, like we had a nanny over the summer. She’s left now we’re trying to, you know, sort that out again. And, you know, just everything in between a personal assistant and a nanny. And, you know, building out my team with my businesses like those are all things that can maybe help me get back on the golf course a little more often. So looking forward to that, because my game, sir, sure did suffer this year.

 

Erwin  

Actually, you’re just sharing now with your journey. And now being a father is a wonderful analogy for this life and business in general. You can’t do it by yourself.

 

Andrew  

No, you can fool yourself for a while, which I did. And I did have some help. But it didn’t have the kind of help I needed. And you hit that breaking point. Like, I think we all acknowledged procrastination is sort of the signal like I must be doing something wrong. If I’m procrastinating on this. It’s like your body, your mind is telling you you got to do to adjust here. And I think the next stage is like this point of despair, where it’s just like, what’s the point, I have no hope of catching up on all the stuff I have to do, which I was sort of getting to, even before before we had the baby. So then baby comes along. I’m like, wow, okay, well, things have to change. There’s no no way they could stay the same, which I think was a really positive thing. So I can thank my son for that when he’s a little older and can understand. But yeah, that that helped me, you know, push along. And you know, I hired my full time video editor full time assistant, both of them in March. And I’ve brought on an operations manager for my construction company. I’m now using a general contractor in Florida. These are things I wouldn’t have done before, I would have general contractor than myself, you know, try to try to do everything and then you know, burnout. And you can’t grow that way. And I think even with our campground, which we’ll talk about more like the team building, the amount of people that are in that organisation, the amount of help, and that’s been a learning experience, seeing just what can be outsourced? And how if you set the pieces up, right things can manage themselves, you have to have oversight, but you don’t need to be involved on a day to day.

 

Erwin  

Right. Okay, so I hope people are taking note, did you set a lot of really important points, oversight? And then you didn’t mention it, but I know you’re good at math.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, I like back of the envelope. Simple math, right. Things need to make simple sense.

 

Erwin  

Yeah. And so you’re managing your numbers, which is a great, so while you’re scaling up, so this is a really good segue as we get into real estate while you’re scaling up, you’re still watching everything and I think that’s been something that’s been missed by a lot of investors that we were talking about. Recording is many people missed on their numbers. And I’m talking about like overlap. For sure over leverage buying on the way up paying too much interest. You know, And yeah, it will

 

Andrew  

a lot of people aren’t cognizant of the ability to lose, right? I’ve lost, I lost back in 2012. I think a lot of people, you know, pie in the sky, like, you know, hey, look how good I’m doing. But the market was doing good. It wasn’t necessarily us it would did good. I always took a very clear look back on my projects and said, Well, if the market hadn’t gone up while I was doing that deal, would I still have been happy with that deal? Would I still have made money? And the answer wasn’t always yes. But the market saved me just like I saved a lot of people. And I’ve spent a lot of time pondering these things, I slowed down on my investing come like 2017, because the numbers started making less sense to me around here. And that’s when I started thinking, well, we’ll wait for this market to kind of cool off. But then it was obviously taking too long. So I started looking, okay, well, maybe Florida, maybe there’s other markets I can look at, I didn’t really want to go up to Sudbury and I was kind of battling my own challenges with no time. So was I going to take on distance investing, when I wasn’t really you know, delegating properly. So people, you know, long way of saying, you know, people weren’t really focusing on the fact that the deals didn’t really make as much sense anymore. They were counting on things to go up, they were counting on being able to have breakeven cash flow and low interest rates forever, which was never really that reasonable. So I was, you know, for me, I was thinking, let’s go find markets that haven’t been gone up by like crazy amounts, where the numbers are close to working, and it see what we can do. And that sort of led me to Florida and then also into the Airbnb side of things where, you know, you’ve got stuff that can generate a lot more than a typical rental.

 

Erwin  

Okay. Apologies. Gonna put a bit of a caution on this. I think for newbies, they need to focus on something preferably closer to home.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, for sure. Like me put it this way, like to hire a GC is a huge risk, I think across the board. Most new investors who hire a general contractor are probably going to get burned in some way. Because you don’t know how to ask the right questions. You don’t know how to vet these people in you probably are a little bit optimistic and want to trust when you shouldn’t. You know, I think that that’s something that people do. I did it early on, I wanted to trust the property manager I worked with in Ohio back in 2012. And the guy stole my money, he took my money, a lot of my house to be destroyed, and did it in a way where he act like the victim, like, you know, hey, you know, we’re just doing our thing, like getting things done. I’m like, Yeah, but how about that money? You have? Oh, yeah, I can send that to you. It was one of those. Oh, I’ll send that to you. Yeah, no problem. Call him again. The next week, can you send that to me? He owed me like 1000s and 1000s of dollars. And he said, Yeah, I’ll send it right over, never sent it. And eventually, after like months and months of that, Oh, this guy is actually just screwing me and pretending that he’s going to pay me like keeping things positive, I’d never witnessed that, you know, Service with a smile, we’ll call it or disservice with a smile. So I saw what people are capable of. And I’ve seen it in the contracting world, like, people are capable of some pretty nasty stuff and just sort of place your trust in a general contractor knowing that I would say there’s a good number of them out there that are willing to take all your money and not not do a good job. And that’s totally fine with them. I really started to focus on how do I find people who would have something to lose if they treated me that way. You know, the old way was I’ll do so much business with you, I’ll make them want to treat me well, because they know I’m going to do business with them with them long term. And the newer way was like coming into Florida. This is too new. I don’t know anybody here, I’m not even from here. Like I mean, I’m assuming most contractors, dollar signs light up in their eyes when they see somebody in that situation. Fortunately, I was coming in with some good experience and lessons learned. So I went to the RIA in Fort Myers, Florida. So on Gulf Coast, which is right next to Cape Coral, where I ultimately decided to invest, I wanted to find community, because I think community is so important. So then all of a sudden, I’m speaking with people who have been in this area for 10 years, and everybody talks in the investing world, everybody talks. So if you’ve got people who are doing good business, and that and you know, they’ve been able to do joint ventures for 10 plus years, and nobody’s talking trash about them, they’re still you know, they’re still coming to meetings. Now, all of a sudden, I think I’ve got a much better starting point to start interacting with people because they got something to lose. That’s the big thing. When I go to new markets now I’m looking for do these people have something to lose if they if they do something sideways? new investors don’t think like that, because new investors just want to trust that hey, this GC says they can do this. People talk people, people promise. I would say in the contracting business. 99% of promises are not fulfilled on time anyway, they might be fulfilled, but they’re not fulfilled or not fulfilled on time. We’ll have a forming contractor. Tell us Oh, we’ll be there on Friday. Don’t show up. Oh, okay. Something came up. We’ll be there on Tuesday. They don’t show up. Hope Thursday’s the day. Thursday happens. Oh, well, we’re all off today. Well, hang on. You said you’d be here on Thursday. You’re on vacation. You know that type of thing happens. And without experience. People just don’t know that this has come didn’t budget for didn’t budget for it. So you know, it started with the student rentals for me to GC my own stuff. I only had two to four months to do an entire renovation with an addition. And you know, getting anything done in four months is where the general contractors almost unthinkable. So we would do you know, partial guts, build an addition and close it and have students move in within a four month period. And so getting into that, that’s why I had to GC I wouldn’t have been able to do those projects otherwise. And still to this day, I don’t think I could have done them in the timeframe we did, unless I had my own employees working for me full time doing my own work, and some some subs, but I mean, at that time, I had probably 50% internal workforce. And then 50% sub

 

Erwin  

I know you mentioned before, can you share how many employees you had at that time? Or

 

Andrew  

just like four four or five like so like main carpenter site, super a couple of general labourers, and then another site super on a different site. But yeah, now I, now I’m about to have two in that. And then I have subcontract with my assistant is subcontracted my video editor subcontracted, but they are full time for me. Got it? Yeah. So but you have four or five employees on the tools? Yeah, probably three on the tools. Plus subs. Yeah,

 

Erwin  

got it. And it’s a, I think there’s more interesting to talk about here, just want to end the point with generally people who scale have in house staff, it has staff is so critical. Yeah. To keep the cost under control and schedule on control. It’s

 

Andrew  

tough, though, because like, then you’ll also see people who make a really good relationship with a general contractor and crush a lot of business. But you got to acknowledge that that general contractor is making a lot of money, like they’re building in a profit margin for themselves. And if that works for you, and it works for them great. In a market that’s going up in value constantly, that tends to work better. In this current market, I think we’re gonna see more people shift to this model with, you know, hiring your own staff, keeping them busy, like not Petia is a good example. He’s got his own full time crew that works on all his projects. So he knows, people aren’t going to say, Hey, I will be there tomorrow. No, you’re there today, or you’re not getting paid. So that’s very different in the employee relationship. That’s why things get done fast. Because downtime is huge. Like you’ve got, you know, between one trade and the next people say, hey, I’ll be there on Monday. Well, you say, well, this trade is finishing up Friday. So you’d be here Monday, they say Monday, but then they don’t show up until Wednesday. Now you’ve got two more days that the house was just sitting, if it’s your own employees, and they’re capable. Now all of a sudden, you’re moving a lot faster, less interest payments. However, you know, of course, the issue is you need to have enough business to keep these people busy. And people didn’t

 

Erwin  

understand that. Yeah, like I literally, I think we both literally know people who will take on projects, just to keep their stuff busy. Yeah. Yeah, I think risky. But I think Matt’s

 

Andrew  

actually offering his services out to other people, because I think he kind of scaled down a bit of his operation. So now he’s actually contracting for other people now keep his people busy, right, until, you know, things kind of come back around, which I mean, that’s another discussion we can have when you know when where’s the bottom? Where’s the bottom? If they keep raising interest rates? We’re not going to find that bottom for quite some time. But we’ll see. But anyway, so in the meantime, yeah, you know, he knows he’s got good people. He wants to keep him busy.

 

Erwin  

He’s smart. No, he’s a smart guy. You need to have him back on the mat if you’re listening, but you’re not.

 

Andrew  

He’s absolutely not listening. But you know, somebody can tell somebody will tell him tell him that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. He’s always a great conversation.

 

Erwin  

But again, a smart like, there’s lots of people still need renter contractors, and actually, it’s a part of a bigger story is people who do renovations, they’re still in short supply, even though there’s all these projects, like, for example, talk about Matt. Yeah, he’s pausing his own investing, yeah, to service other people as a contractor. And so my point is, contractors are still busy, even though there’s tonnes of projects being put on hold or not even happening,

 

Andrew  

but a lot of people are mid project. And I think what we’re really gonna see is it’s going to take like a year before you start to see a lot of developers didn’t do a new start, like they had something that was early in the in the stages, and they just decided, hey, you know, we’re ready to go for permits. But let’s just wait. And I think that that’s going to be a very common thing to see in the next couple of years unless these interest rate hikes level off or start to reverse. Because building expense has not gone down directly. Not yet. Anyway, maybe it’s true and labour, material and labour. I mean, maybe, maybe we’ll see once you know, a bunch of people get laid off. Now you’ve got all the sudden more supply relative to your demand. And maybe now we start to see it’s easier to get a contractor. It’s easier to get employees. And I’d be awesome. That’d be kind of cool. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

Like I wouldn’t mind starting to do some flipping through. Well, I

 

Andrew  

mean, we’re getting to a point like this whole market is changing. And now there’s a lot of people who will cry over the Spilt Milk and the money that they’ve they’ve in their head unrealized losses, versus looking at Holy crap, what an opportunity to buy a whole bunch of cheap real estate and cost average and do really well yes, the interest rates are higher, but the prices are going to come down relative and rents are on their way up. So there’s a huge opportunity coming, and one that I don’t think we’ll pretty much ever see again in our lifetime, which I think real estate is going on the other side of all this, the next boom period is going to take real estate out of the reach of the average Canadian completely.

 

Erwin  

I’m glad you say it because when I see it, I don’t believe it.

 

Andrew  

I 100% think that you’re already looking at affordability people can’t afford, you know, even their gas bills anymore. Like we’re going to a renter state and, you know, do you want to be the owner? Or do you want to be a renter, like, you know, build up your rentals. Now, the challenge will be for anybody buying something fundamental that can weather the storm, you know, the interest rates can survive a 10% interest rate. Because it seems like that’s the direction we’re heading. I mean, to undo the damage they’ve done with all this money printing and the fact that they’re still printing it. You know, when will be the right level of interest rate hikes, I didn’t think they would go this far. I didn’t think that they were willing to do something so ruthless when they were so generous before Oh, here it takes her to do all this. We just want to protect you will drop interest rates,

 

Erwin  

we’ll have appraisers that are going to come in because they shouldn’t come in.

 

Andrew  

It just it’s just crazy how they just flipped a switch. And now Now they’re out now we’re going to be responsible. Like there’s literally that quote of Justin Trudeau saying you’ll forgive me if I don’t think about fiscal policy. Like exact quote, you’ll forgive me he last. You’ll forgive me if I don’t think about fiscal policy. We’re going very much the other way now. So who knows where we go, how far down it goes. But I think that the, you know, there’s never a right or wrong time to know there’s probably a wrong time. There’s no right time to buy in this process. I think it has to be fundamentals, you’re going to find even if the market averages, you know, at point A, you could still buy something significantly below average, for a number that makes a lot of sense will cashflow even if rates go up further. That’s I think that’s where people’s heads need to be at

 

Erwin  

the sad thing that was that the best the vestments that our clients are transacting on, take a lot of capital. Like, for example, the opportunity that we’re seeing that we didn’t see we’ve almost never seen is single family to triplex conversion opportunities. That takes a lot of cap, you know, a tonne of capital. So that’s said the best opportunities are for those who have deeper pockets. People who prepare deeper

 

Andrew  

pockets can raise the money, yeah, more experience, for sure. Able to do those projects. But I mean to go in take all that time, especially when it’s so hard to get contractors. Now you’re looking at a project like that a year turnaround, probably in a year. Where’s that value gonna be? I mean, I think we can reasonably assume the rents will be pretty good. But will that work for you know, if you have to leave a few $100,000 in the deal? Is that okay? I think for lots of people it is, especially in our networks. But there’s a lot of people that that eliminates from that game.

 

Erwin  

Thankfully, we’re looking at some for example, where they have they have garages, two car garages that are hooked up hooked up for utilities. So we’re just we’re like, we never saw these opportunities, like six months ago. Yeah. Or like there’d be like 50 offers on? Yeah, I’m exaggerating, it’d be like six to 12 to 18 offers. But again, it takes a deep pocketed investor to be able to do these things, which is kind of sad for me, because I always I’m always pushing for the logo. I just want to see

 

Andrew  

the newbies. Yeah, when people buy the camera. Yeah, I don’t think there is an easy way to start from scratch. I mean, like, I know, a lot of people have listened to the podcast and when things were going up that worked. But now I feel like getting in and working for somebody, like just get into the industry somehow even part time work outside of your full time job. If you can volunteer. Come work for somebody like you and get coffee and just learn

 

Erwin  

for buddy up. Yeah, buddy. split everything. Split the mortgage. Split the work. Yeah, right. I ain’t gonna wind up. I ain’t going to Saskatoon to invest.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, that’s always how I felt. I didn’t want to do the distance. I mean, of course, Florida. I mean, but I kind of want to go there. I want to go down there. So I’m looking for excuses. So that you know that kind of works, but and Tomori to Okay, yeah,

 

Erwin  

you’re saying to me things because we’re going in different directions. Too many notes. Too many to me. opportunities for learning here. Let’s start with Florida. Cuz you mentioned it first. Yeah, it does. I’ve seen your numbers. It’s I can’t believe how cheap land is the start off of there. Why is the land so cheap? It’s not

 

Andrew  

as cheap as it was when I started. Well, yeah, so So may 2020. I started I don’t know, when I started buying, I think was right around the end of May 2021. I started closing on lots and they were like, anywhere from 23,000 up to 31,000. US saw us figures. Now lots are closer to like 45 in the areas that have been looking. And even

 

Erwin  

with everything’s coming down. Oh, yeah. Yeah. foreign markets strong. Yeah, I

 

Andrew  

mean, because North port and Fort Myers are in the top 10, two of the top 10 fastest growing cities in the US. So that area, like although the the interest rate pressures, you know, obviously to bring values down. The in migration is pushing it the other way. So that market hasn’t been hit like Ontario has. So

 

Erwin  

just to add to that, though, the insider information I’m getting a lot of people bring cash,

 

Andrew  

tonnes of cash. Yeah. 50% was with as of the last Remita meeting I went to it was 50% cash investors. I don’t know what it is now. But like over this boom period, 50% cash investors. Well, people serve cash buyers, sorry. And that means something different in the EU in the US in general, because when you say I’m buying cash, you can’t go get a mortgage. Like you can’t actually close with a mortgage whereas here you just don’t put their financing clause in and then you can still you can still add them or if they don’t do that they’re

 

Erwin  

if they have the cash but it’d be interesting context is often I have the financial means.

 

Andrew  

cash offer I have the financial means yes. Yeah, it’s literally cash. Yeah, literally cash. Yeah. So their real estate board was was saying 50% cash. So yeah, that’s big, a lot of money coming in. They’re easy. Yeah. And, and the biggest thing was relative price point, we talked about the lots for cheap. Well, the houses were cheap too, compared to here. Like if you think about what you get, comparatively. And I just looked at that. And I like we love Naples, which is about 50 minutes away. And we spent a lot of time there for last seven, eight years, every every winter, we’re down there. And so you know, I started going to the races just to see what was going on. I saw people flipping and doing things for low margin. And I’m like, I’m just not going to do that at a distance. That’s not, that’s not my skill set. And with my available time, they’re not going to do that. So your risk tolerance. Yeah. And but then I heard a guy that I ended up partnering on a deal with Dave, he was speaking on stage, he’s like, hey, you know, I build new construction. And here are our numbers. And the numbers didn’t look fantastic. But they look decent. And I just looked at what was the completed product? Why can we build for I’m like, I need to get a foot in the door with construction down here. And so I use it as an opportunity. I funded the deal. I actually completely self funded the entire deal at this point. No mortgage so far. And I don’t think we’re going to be it’s it just didn’t work out that way. But it was an opportunity. He introduced me to the builder. I said, Hey, you know what, I’m going to have to do this on my own too. So I am going to be dealing with Sherry, who he introduced me to, and we’re gonna build more together. And I’m treating this as part of a business strategy that I’m building out in Florida. Is that cool with you said yes, that’s cool. We have great relationships, he and I and I still use them as my realtor down there when you know, I’m looking for stuff buying stuff, asking him what I should build, you know, Hey, what should I build Dave? What’s gonna sell well, so he’s, he’s available for all that stuff. And yeah, that’s gone. That’s gone really well. So I kind of lost track of what what direction we were going with this. So feel free to direct me what you want to know,

 

Erwin  

ideas and what you’re investing in. Like? Yeah, it’s square footage cost per square foot. So

 

Andrew  

the first one I’m building which were drywall now pool is dug. We’re gonna be done.

 

Erwin  

You’re renting it out. You’re gonna rent it out.

 

Andrew  

This one I’m gonna sell. Oh, first one. First ones for sale. Yeah, spec. Spec builds spec builds. Yeah. Sorry, just

 

Erwin  

for the listeners benefit spec build is when you build it first. And then you sell it.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, exactly. So I guess I’m technically more of a developer on the deal than the builder. Because I’ve hired a builder, although you could call me the builder because I own a lot. So I hired the GC. And they did all the permitting everything. I spent a lot of time obviously getting to know what their operation and all that. But also Dave helped with that, you know, create a new connection. And yeah, so we’ve got 18 180 square foot, plus a three car garage. It’s four bed, two bath. There’s also an outdoor kitchen, there’s about a 250 square foot area for the outdoor kitchen on the patio. And then there’s a covered lanai. So that’s that’s a covered patio, but then there’s a cover Lanai, which is not covered, it’s the screened in area, with a pool, and all of that, I think my all in cost, including the lot, we’re going to be around 420,000 And that one,

 

Erwin  

so we’ll buy a bachelor condo, GTA for that.

 

Andrew  

So it wouldn’t be that number anymore. But that was based on what I could buy the lot for and what my building costs were when I started. But initially, when this was a concept, we were looking at maybe 499 list price, which wouldn’t have been a huge profit would have been a very small profit, that spec went up to 599. As of like, by the time I broke ground, that was what we were expecting we would list for, and now we’re sort of back down to thinking we’ll list it for you know, 580, something like that, at this point. Now, you know, granted, there’s another two months, but there’s a good good buffer in there based on what I paid for what I’ll be into it for. So I have another one going not too far from that like within a kilometre, or I guess mile we’ll talk miles This is Florida. And that one is downs, even bigger 2150 square foot. I think 2130 Actually, outdoor kitchen This one also has a hot tub and three car garage. I’m trying to stick with three car garage and everything just because I mean envy like I want a three car garage. Let’s all build it until I finally get one. Okay,

 

Erwin  

all kidding aside, it’s an investment you’d like. You think you have your investor cap on.

 

Andrew  

No matter what I mean, triple growth car garage is going to be a selling feature. Right, right.

 

Erwin  

That’s the want people to think that they need to the way they invest is how they would want to live.

 

Andrew  

Oh yeah. No, and I am calculated. I do like to think of things like hey, would I live in that? So I go after a consumer that would think similarly to me in certain ways. But yeah, I’m setting these up for families. The big thing is like the general contractor I’m working with it had set models they were already building and I am working with those models. So the big benefit there is Lee Times weightless. They know what they’re building, they order their trusses early. They order all the materials in that day and the mechanicals they need early. They’re soft costs and the saw in the process for for generating permit packages, it’s all very simple because they’ve done it so many times. So I’m very much okay with that. Of course, some people you know, I want a custom house, that’s super unique. Yeah, that’s not what I’m doing. And that would cost more to do. Yeah, this is kind of working within their parameters. But that works well for me. So I’m going to do my own things that are going to make these really awesome for the ones that I keep Airbnb, like, the second one I was talking about, I’m keeping that I did things that I wouldn’t have done if it was just resale like putting in the hot tub. I don’t think that necessarily I’ll make that back. But maybe it would

 

Erwin  

be hot for vacation rentals. Yeah, certainly

 

Andrew  

means especially like, if you think Florida and like January and February. It’s not it’s not as hot at night and stuff like hot tub would be awesome. Like anytime we go to Florida in the winter, where we want the hot tub. So putting that in was was big, but you know, just certain other things, I’m going to put in a bunch of palm trees in the back to just you know, make it go for Airbnb, and wouldn’t do that if I was just selling it. So there’ll be different things like that, that I do. So the bigger one, that one down will be in for closer to 450. And I think the values cost us 450. Yeah, yeah, the value on that one, probably somewhere around six or over six. So not actually as good of a profit margin if I were to flip it, but for me, I wanted you know, a nice big one that would work really well for Airbnb. And that’ll be kind of the starting point for Airbnb down there. And, and then we’ll go from there. But my plan is, you know, keep one sell one, keep one sell one, I bought 10 lots, and just keep sort of buying. I’m going to build a few more before I buy. Because I mean, maybe those prices come down a bit. And there’s no rush like now they’re plentifully available, whereas before they were a little harder to get. So we’ll, we’ll keep that moving

 

Erwin  

so many questions. Okay, what made this location make sense for you?

 

Andrew  

Well, Gulf coast here at great sunsets, you’re within an hour Well, probably 45 minutes from from my lats to like great beaches like Fort Myers Beach, which is like, you know, world class beach. And I think the Gulf Coast in Florida is just better for

 

Erwin  

Strong’s convention centres.

 

Andrew  

Cape Coral is more of my friend calls it the Simcoe of Florida like oh, it’s a very it’s very much a value play. Like it’s among the it’s like your, you know, bang for your buck, call it and I think from a vacation standpoint, as well is people get to go down warm climate that’s below the where they call it the frost line, you don’t get frost down that far in Florida, typically ever. And so you get all the warmth, you get to be in southwest Florida, at a price that otherwise you can’t really get in southwest Florida, especially being that close to water. Cape Coral is really unique because it’s the Canal City. There’s canals running everywhere. Not every law has a canal and my lats don’t I’m avoiding that. But there’s a lot of people who will have their their boat right out back from their house. And so they can take the saltwater canal through the city and get it out to the Gulf Coast. So it dumps onto a river that runs between Fort Myers and Cape Coral, and then they can go right out into the Gulf

 

Erwin  

a bit of a geek I can’t imagine the infrastructure cost to have it took a while.

 

Andrew  

Another thing that’s great about roads are expensive enough, it is the weird thing about kypros I feel like they thought the city was gonna be so much bigger than it was back when they they originally sort of organised it and put in all these roads and lots because the whole northwest part is like very very scattered like there’s one house on a street and then you’ll have a whole bunch of vacant lots on either side in every new house going in is really nice, you know, nice house more expensive houses. It’s a very very up and coming area. But all throughout Cape Coral, you’ll find just a vacant lot here vacant lot there. Don’t like you’re not like here No, I think for the longest time it was fairly stagnant. People weren’t really building much that’s geared up more in the last few years. And I think as values were coming up it was kind of helping things a bit. But you know, it’s the chance to get into a place where there’s no HOA like there’s no homeowner’s association where you’re when you’re restricted on what you can do we’re going to be a condo board right basically yeah similar to a land condo or like a common element condo where they can tell you how you can use your property and what you know what you can and can’t do so for it’s like an Airbnb or is paradise down there because you can actually Airbnb your property whereas like in Naples say like everything is a gated community of mine it’s like one small pocketed area and in all those gated communities you can’t even rent out your place well not all but some of them you’re not even allowed to rent your place so let alone Airbnb it or long term rental anything like that. It just to

 

Erwin  

clarify for the listeners benefit. These organisations determine how you can operate your property or even how you live Yeah, I like to have like no pets

 

Andrew  

like you can’t have no pets or you can’t have a trailer in your driveway and you You can be put away to be put away. What what colour? Are you going to paint your house? We need to approve it before you do it like things like that. Like they’re trying to dictate everything that you as entrepreneurs love being told what to do. Yeah. So I mean, it’s like the same reason I avoid condos, I would avoid HOAs these condos, it’s like there’s a loud slamming coming from your door, my wife’s condo. She sold it now. But they, the neighbours were all saying that the door kept slamming, we’re like, Well, there’s one small problem. No one’s been in the condo for three weeks. So this couldn’t have been us. But you get into things like that with condos. So

 

Erwin  

but all condos are do that with the negative pressure in the hallways like the doors? Oh, yeah,

 

Andrew  

exactly. It was just silly. It was just silliness. So, you know, just just getting away from all that you’ve already got the municipality telling you what you can and can’t do, let alone you know, let’s not go go there. So I really like it. For those reasons. I think that there’s a huge value play from an Airbnb standpoint. And then if that doesn’t work, I mean, rents are being pushed up. And the price point makes a lot of sense for the actual value of the house. So I’ve got some exits, I can sell them, I can rent them long term. I mean, they’re not going to be cash cows long term with the interest rates. But you know, there’s a play there. There’s there’s several ways to write to sort of quote unquote, exit as needed

 

Erwin  

if needed. It sounds like you’ve taught business before. All this lingo I don’t even know about US News and people.

 

Andrew  

I don’t know. Like, I don’t know how much of it was was, you know, formal education or just experience like going through? Like, I think I’ve always been a bit of a critical thinker. Even as a kid, my mom told me, like, yeah, I just see a sit in there, like just often space thinking. I think I’ve always sort of done that just kind of evaluate things critically ask a lot of questions. And what if What would I do it right. And the negative to that is it’s caused me to be very slow at taking action in recent years.

 

Erwin  

Think of all the condo speculators right now trying to figure out how to get other cars there,

 

Andrew  

which I was our contract. I was purely saying, don’t do that, from the start of the podcasts. I’m like to go speculate on on condos in Toronto. Sure. It seems great. grass is always greener, what happens when that changes, you have no exit. If you have no cash flow, imagine being in a place where you have no cash flow, and it’s worth less than you paid for it. That’s just a lose lose scenario. One you never want to find yourself in. So just I think that these are the discussions with the podcast that people really enjoy hearing, like breaking ideas down and saying why is something inherently just not a great investment relative to another investment? Not to say that somebody with 1000 properties, couldn’t pick up a few pre constructions in Toronto and do really well. It’s just, you know, can you afford to lose? And will you care if you lose? You know, those are two important questions to ask yourself, which I think a lot of people don’t. People don’t ask themselves, they would care. But they don’t ask themselves that question. I just want I want to get into a couple of contests. I see people making money. Yes, that works until it doesn’t work. And some people won in spite of themselves. But it was a risky position. And it is. But for some people that makes sense. And some some it doesn’t. And there’s there’s no hard and fast rule. That’s good. That’s bad. For some, it’s all relative to whoever’s in. Yeah,

 

Erwin  

I don’t want to beat up on condos. But here’s a current example is people with cancelled condo projects, right? Versus I bought a house like I personally like to buy when I can see in touch. You don’t want to buy a concept. Yeah, buy paper. Yeah, I don’t want that’s just me. And then for example, I bought in 2020, versus people who bought bought a condo, and now they can’t close. So sorry, the price is cancelled. So yeah,

 

Andrew  

so pre construction, and those agreements probably gave the builder an out, we could we could choose not to build this. And if we do then then that’s that

 

Erwin  

attending. So one friend has agreement. He’s gonna get paid interest, okay, on percent on his deposit. 6%. But he lost on how much equity appreciation? Yeah, during that time. You know,

 

Andrew  

I mean, he was he was still would have been up if it was Bill. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

 

Erwin  

I told like we did the math, but the builder wanted more money to close. So even with the extra money, they would have made sense. Yeah. But he backed out. And then so like all so with the terms opportunity costs, I made equity gains on my properties. Yeah, he’s what he’s got his money back with 6% interest.

 

Andrew  

At the end of the day, though, like, we’re all seeing our real estate values come down to three now, right? So it’s the ability to not care about that. That is going to be the proof of whether you were doing it right or not.

 

Erwin  

I care about everything. Like, I have a basement rented for 1200 bucks right now, like 1800 a day. So I still care. No, not hurting,

 

Andrew  

like care. Like, you have to care in the sense that it adjusts your strategy, but not in the sense that you’re going to lose sleep over it

 

Erwin  

or gently funding your doctor tenant. No. Hey, you said you were gonna buy a place when you moved in this role of your short term thing, because my rent would be $100 higher if they laughed, they laughed.

 

Andrew  

Sounds like it might be a time to do an N 13 Rescue renovation and

 

Erwin  

it was too late. It doesn’t mean anything. Sorry. I digress. Any other final thoughts on Florida you’re liking it. You think you’re gonna go through with all 10 all 10 Lots, build and sell Oh, well. I

 

Andrew  

actually have a One coaching student that I made that wanted to be brought into the fold on what I was doing in Florida. So I brought him on, he’s actually buying one of mine that are ready to go for permit, because it’s already had the survey done. So one of them will be gone. I’ll keep building and, you know, until the numbers change, why not? Where else is going to make as much sense? You know, I guess that’s rhetorical that for me, like, I think that that just, you know, people are still going there, you know, whereas this market is going to keep dropping for quite some time. Who knows? Like, I hope not. But in Florida, I think, yes, there will be pressure downward, but it won’t, it won’t be hit as as extremely, because they only recovered their 2008, high about two years ago. So like, you know, we had a drastically different economic climate here in Canada than they’ve had there. And to them, they were they were screaming, hey, this is unsustainable, look how high you know who can afford $300,000 for a house, I’m like, you don’t know.

 

Erwin  

Like many Canadians in urban Canada,

 

Andrew  

like coming from where I’m coming from, I have a good perspective on this. Not to say that, you know, things should be that much higher. But specifically, from property managers down there, I’ve heard them scream, you know, how can people afford to pay more, and I don’t know how they will. But they’ll find a way. Like, it’s all supply and demand. If people need a place, there will be you know, maybe families move together. And you know, two families live in one, but you’re gonna have it, it’ll happen and it is happening, the rents are going up significantly. So these are just conversations from year and a half, two years ago, there was nothing

 

Erwin  

there. Again, they’re getting strong population moving in, and moving away from other

 

Andrew  

families like so you’re gonna see all kinds of new industry popping up in there in that area, Southwest Florida specifically, and other areas, too, but I’m not really focused on the other areas.

 

Erwin  

I think most people know if they’re listening to this podcast, generally know, the world’s pretty effed up and a lot of places very much. So pretty much all of those millionaires are going to somewhere where it’s not effed up. Yeah.

 

Andrew  

And I don’t think like the USA or in general is that place but I mean, where is that place anymore? Like, third world maybe go to the go to the third world less organised.

 

Erwin  

You want to go? I don’t know. No, no personal safety. My wife’s never going to agree to any of that. The only reason that private island on the whole island yourself I don’t know like and I feel it’s the thing that is also that I still conservative, I was lucky as messed up as we have things are here. And it’s messed up this world is this is way more messed up than the rest of the world. Yeah,

 

Andrew  

it’s like a competition who can be more messed up like everybody’s fighting for it at once. Justin Trudeau raises up the ante and then Joe Biden does similar. And here we are right back.

 

Erwin  

Like, like throwing lip matches at China like geez guy.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, it’s an interesting, interesting world, to say the least. And it’s that all you know, I think that all contributed to my being a little bit slower to take action in the last few years, just like trying to spot where are things going, you know, what’s actually going to happen. And so far, I’ve been right about way too much about all this in the economic direction. I’d love to see, you know, opportunity turned around. And I again, I do think there’s a lot opportunity coming up right now.

 

Erwin  

But from the outside view, will you’re right here, you can tell me if my view is correct. You’re still buying hard assets and assets that will produce

 

Andrew  

Yeah, yeah, just you know, it’s got to pass that fundamental test, right, like back people used to do 1% rule. And then that went away for a while. Well, that’s obviously coming back. And, you know, maybe we can up that to a 2% rule, who knows how crazy things get. But that’ll be all stuff that we have to remain aware of, like, can we find deals like that, and, and I think with more opportunity, like more properties on the market, you’re gonna have more opportunity to have sellers who are in a situation where they got to sell, and there’s a number that works for them, that could really work for you as a buyer. And those are the deals that we as investors need to be keeping our eyes out for.

 

Erwin  

We think we’re seeing that right now. Time will tell it’s

 

Andrew  

without question. If you have more property sitting for longer, there are going to be people with personal situations that just they can’t wait. And those are, those are opportunities, because you can do them a real solid by by getting them out of the deal they need to get out of for a number that works for them, but it also really works for you.

 

Erwin  

And I just like to add to that people, some people will say we’re bad people, but the seller needs the Quiddity

 

Andrew  

Yeah, sell it right. You’re making them an offer and they have the right to refuse it. So but if it works for them, they’ll accept it.

 

Erwin  

Yeah. Would you prefer no liquidity? Yeah. Would they prefer the bank ticket back? Oh, you want the bank to take the property but we’re the bad guy. Yeah, exactly.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, the whole thing with the wholesaling thing I always had like I always felt a little bad for the seller So Michael, you get it for so much less but some of them are perfectly happy with so much less I don’t agree with ever like misleading them or anything like that. But I mean, if you’re transparent with them, and they say hey, yeah, that works. I can do that. Yeah, then you have a deal.

 

Erwin  

My experience is a lot of those sellers just hate Realtors I don’t blame them. So they refuse to work with a realtor. They’re generally refusing the best exit

 

Andrew  

possible. Oh, yeah. Like the ones who take the wholesale deal. They take less money knowing but I think A lot of them, it might not be a hate, but it’s like, well, we just don’t want people coming through here. We don’t want to go through that. I think that’s a big pain point for people. Oh, really like three months listed with people coming through here all the time. Like, I don’t want to do that. Look at how messy this house is. You mean, you’ll just give me this number and we can be done with this. Okay. Yeah. Amen to that. They don’t know what I can do. They haven’t called

 

Erwin  

anyone. Seriously haven’t just we can help them a lot better than anybody else can.

 

Andrew  

Yeah. And no doubt. There’s always other opportunities, other ways to proceed. And you’re right, they probably don’t know.

 

Erwin  

Excellent. So we talked about one 2%. That actually leads me to more aggressive strategies, like short term rental. So that kind of brings us to what’s Wait, what’s the, what’s the campground called?

 

Andrew  

So the campground is Maple Ridge family camp. And that’s in Miller, Lake Ontario, about 20 minutes south of Tobermory, and torn was beautiful. Yeah. And I spent a lot of time up there. So my mother in law has a cottage in just north of sobble. So we would go up to Tobermory as like a little day trip, and we would go to Lions Head and the Grotto, which are all you know, within a 40 minute drive of where we were. And so when this opportunity came up, where we’re like 20 minutes between all those places, I’m like, wow, this is this is pretty much the most central you could be on the Bruce Peninsula, in the middle of all the things people want to go see. And we knew Airbnb was a big thing. Like there were cottages up and Saville getting like $1,200 a night on like weekends and high season during during the lockdowns. So, knowing that I wanted to get into Airbnb, but I wanted to do it in a way that I could scale. Like, there was actually a, you know, a possibility of, you know, generating a million dollars in revenue. And when the campground came up, initially, I was hesitant. But I did see that the opportunity to scale was there. So what we did is we actually came in, and we had a bunch of seasonals, 25, seasonal renters that had trailers on the site, and

 

Erwin  

started just to slow it down. They rented the spot. Yeah. So they pay for parking, they basically

 

Andrew  

pay for parking and utilities, so to speak. Yeah, so they have a connection desk, or Yeah, we have 14 of our 25 had sanitary connection, but get this, the owner was actually pumping out the tanks of the other 11. So they had like a tank on the ground that hold like 300 gallons of sewage. And he would come around with his little honey waggon on the back of his lawnmower, and he would pump them out and put them into the mains sanitary drain. So we obviously looked at this for like, there’s just no way, like, that’s not happening. And so we had to give the the rough news to the, you know, the existing tenants, they, you know, their contract didn’t get renewed. So the previous owner didn’t renew them specifically at our request, because we didn’t know exactly what we were going to do. But we ultimately gave them the news that we’re not renewing and we we asked them to, to leave so to speak. It was unfortunate and obviously it was news that they didn’t want but they were paying less than $2,000 per site per year. And those numbers were so far from making any sense at all. We just couldn’t keep that it would just wouldn’t work. So yeah, that finally did all unfold. We got everybody off sort of you know, mid May and then we we you know we’re renovating we bought some trailers some of the people leaving just said hey, you can buy our trailer we were able to make use of one of those in our glamping facility and then we’ve got how many did you buy and how many were of use Ah, if we probably bought like five five from people leaving and out of those like some of them will make good employee accommodations for next year but they were not at the calibre that we would have needed to to rent out on Airbnb. So what we did to start is we went in with glamping tents so we had platforms built we put 230 square foot tents with queen sized beds in them and we had our management team deck them out and Pauline has great vision she you know she could moonlight as a designer I guess she started does with us and she so she decorated them and made it all work and we got those listed at the end of June. We were full for for July on those you know renting around 200 bucks a night and

 

Erwin  

just take a pause there like if hotel doesn’t give you a Twitter night

 

Andrew  

that would be the next one okay, but these are like an experience like people want to go there to like Instagram shot like we’ll have people like go do yoga poses and post reels and tag us. You know there are people who want an experience so even going into the fall now as weather gets cold we figured our trailers would start booking up more because they have heat and no people are still booking the tents even into October people are booking the tents. I’m like, Do you know how cold it gets the camp and October heated? Not the tents.

 

Erwin  

Oh, but when it was heated sorry.

 

Andrew  

The trailers are heated.

 

Erwin  

Okay,

 

Andrew  

we’ve got right now I think we have four or five trailers for rent on Airbnb and they do have heat sources. And the tents are not they’re not but you know got extra blankets, it’s still really cool. But, you know, camping in October, you gotta be ready for that. So, yeah, that’s sort of how that progressed. And, you know, the hardest thing has been manpower, you know, we spent a lot of time making the site look better cleaner, you know, getting rid of extra brush, you know, prepping sites, merging sites, there might have been two sites that really small we merge them together. And our tent glamping is phenomenal, like the sites are completely treat in, you know, the, just check out our stuff for anybody watching or listening to get away glamp and see how nice these these 10 sites are. So it was a combination of, you know, being so secluded, and then having a really unique experience has done well for us. Plus, our location is right in the middle of all these prime things that people want to go to. So that that part’s worked out really well, we had a good solid year, but we started late. So we’re looking forward to next year, having a proper run out will be advertising through the winter. We’ll be looking forward to having people you know, tenting with us in May, whereas this year, we didn’t have any glamping rentals pretty much until the last week of June. And that was very minimal. Yeah, he’s it’s been a roller coaster, but we’re finding our bearings. Like it was just such a such a learning experience so much to know. But you look at full on business, it’s a full on business, while you’re doing it up. Yeah, so we still have that traditional camping part. But then, you know, we’re our focuses and growing the glamping. Because traditional camping, you know, you just you get a lot of people who are just looking for a cheap place to stay, it’s cheaper than that cheap. And you can do that doesn’t really fit that well with our clientele. You know, I’d say with our camp, our prime clientele is families who want to go for an experience. But the reputation of the site over previous years was a good place to go to do group camping for parties. And that is just in complete opposition to families and they don’t they don’t mix well. It’s like oil and water. So what we’re transitioning away from is the group camping we don’t really want that on our site, because it just attracts people who want to get a bunch of friends together, drink, make noise. And these are things we had to learn. We thought hey, group camping, that’s kind of cool people tent on bigger site. Now that’s not so great for us. But you know, we have wild campsites that are secluded for people who want to do the traditional camping. And then we have a lot of pull through RV sites. So people can come in stay for a few days. We have a sewage dump area. So when they leave,

 

Erwin  

does anyone have experience running a campground? No, but I mean, they’re all learning on the fly.

 

Andrew  

So Zach, in our ownership group, he was family they do RVing. So he kind of had some perspective with that, okay, as a consumer, as a consumer, showed Zach, but yeah, shout out to Zach. He’s listening. Yeah, he’s not listening.

 

Erwin  

He’s enjoying his vacation wherever he is. Zach’s been

 

Andrew  

travelling the world for the last eight months, but our management team does. So our management team have been managing trailer parks and campaigns for, you know, I think 20 years, so you’re not flying blind? No, no, they’ve been they’ve been huge. And then we’ve empowered them to hire as they see fit. And then we’ve also brought in help where needed, but next year, a big change will be we’re actually going to be providing guest or employee accommodations and bringing people in from out of town because it’s hard to find people in that area because every available unit isn’t for rent, everyone’s Airbnb, everything out there. So it’s actually hard to find started when

 

Erwin  

you said Oh, play accommodations originally, I thought you meant your own. But you’re, you’re gonna be accommodating. You’re kinda like a motel.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, exactly. So we’re giving like we’re gonna give employees a trailer to stay in so that they’ll still use our main showers but they can use the trailer to stay in Cook, do all that stuff and you know that’ll allow us to bring people in who want an experience we can get people and once we do that we have we have just unlimited opportunity with things like workaway.com and you’ll get people who want to travel and go to a cool place and work you know we’ll be able to accommodate them and hopefully get a little bit more help for next year. Yes provide internet we have internet at the clubhouse so like they wouldn’t have it in their trailer but they would have it we have really good cell phone signal on ourselves. So people can Yeah, you can use your you know I have like 50 gigabytes with bells so I mean I’m sure people have good cell phone package can just use that.

 

Erwin  

I hope none of our staff are listening to this. This was for their zoom background and like yeah, Dragon injuries aren’t you are all these campsites are they all great? Like you mentioned trailer you mentioned tent you mentioned just like out in the woods campsite, they’re all great. They’re not perfect.

 

Andrew  

There’s there’s better and worse ones. I don’t love our art pulled through trailer stuff. I mean, I think it’s it’s functionally good. I just don’t think it looks that good. So we’ve talked about things we can do and you know, maybe we shut down because we have like, I think we have 20 of them in a row you know, shut down 10 of them for everything except for the long weekends and that way people can book to side by side and now we can you know set up a picnic table in between. So we’re always looking at how can we make this cater to families better give people a better experience and repel those who just want a cheap place to stay or why come party because that’s just not you know, I’m sure there are campgrounds out there cater to that. But I just not what we want to cater to.

 

Erwin  

It seems to be general thing, like, for example, that we’re disrupting the short not that long ago. And like they’re they’re trying to clamp down on numbers, like, for example, limiting how many overnight guests you’re allowed. Yeah. Right. So it’s, it’s a problem everywhere.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, if you’re in this hospitality thing, Airbnb or camps, you know, volume hurts you like getting a lot of people in like, it just creates logistical and operational like problems. So it’s actually much better to try and focus on people who want to experience value, at least in my, my perspective, it is, and we’re looking forward to transitioning more that way.

 

Erwin  

That’s exciting. That’s pretty cool. Because I think a lot of people are looking at these opportunities.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, not not a simple, you know, simple project to take on, but we’ve got a good, you know, good diverse amount of experience with our ownership group. And it’s, it’s come really well into play. And then I’ve certainly learned a lot about delegating, you know, even better than I was, like, I was already decent at delegating some things. And now this year has forced me to be that much better. And I’m really actually happy to see how well it’s worked.

 

Erwin  

How many people were on the management team were

 

Andrew  

to two main, two main managers, we have two more employees that are working sort of semi full time hours right now. And we have a bookkeeper that actually is working out of the Philippines, he’s a CPA. So he and he’s busy, like there’s a lot of work to do on these books, a lot of transactions. And then of course, my assistant, she’s helping out on on this, and then our ownership group is there’s four of us. And we all sort of handle different things. I’ve sort of handle general oversight, specifically of the accounting and bookkeeping, and, and the management team. And then the other guys help handle acquisitions, certain operational problems, all oversight, none of us are, you know, full time on this, none of us are hands on site, although we have had, you know, you know, Mike goes up or Jake goes up, and they’ll spend a day or two on the site, dealing with management, you know, helping out a little bit, things like that just to integrate, make sure that we’re hearing them. And then we do a weekly Tuesday meeting where we go over what’s happening, how do we kind of go what do you need from us? Which direction do we want to go? What do we need to be thinking about for next year? How do we adjust our marketing or our positioning in terms of who we’re attracting? And a lot of these that came out of necessity, because we weren’t doing that originally, like we do a management team like or an ownership meeting, but we wouldn’t do a management meeting meeting and we really started to see there was a breakdown in communication. So doing that weekly meeting has been huge for us and just you know, now we’re on the same page and they take care of everything for us they run they run our sales on site, we you know, I just check the bank account and I see the sales coming in it’s July and August with the campgrounds fun like all the Airbnb payments, rolling in watching the account, you know, grow and then you gotta be prepared for the offseason when it doesn’t any plans for what the winter by the bylaw. We are not allowed to have stays for more than seven out of 10 months, which is a weird way of putting it so so basically seven, that’s how much you can operate. Yeah, I can’t so so that’s like eight and a half out of 12 months we’re allowed to operate. So we’re we’ll be shutting down for for the winter. We’ll be back open. You know, we’ll we’ll be starting operations again in April. And yeah, it’s weird. Why would they say seven out of 10? Why wouldn’t they say it out of 12.

 

Erwin  

But I’ve heard it with other recreational places, for example, like the boys and Innisfil. Jeez, I’m terrible. Anyway, they have to close them for one month because the policy there is if you’re if you’re open 12 months, people live there. So you need to invest in hospitals and schools. Yeah. Okay. But that’s 11 or 12 months. They’re like, obey your G You’re really restricted.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, I mean, but if I interpret seven out of 10 That’s, like I said, it’s like eight out of eight and a half out of 12, whatever. But we could, you know, longterm look at you know, and we’re thinking out loud, you know, there’s tonnes of land there is the potential for severance and development. Yes, I think there is. We haven’t really explored that. So that’s certainly on on our mind, and then, you know, maybe go and get a bylaw amendment or a minor variance to allow us to do something in the winter any skiing or snowmobile trails and the snowmobile trails right in the area and money Yeah, so we are allowed you know, we can go into a site plan control and actually start building more structures on the site. We can go get an amendment to the bylaw that allow us to maybe maybe we you know put a little cross country ski facility there or you know, offer winter stays for you know, for people who want to do that kind of thing snowmobiling and what have you. These are potentials I don’t know if that’d be pushing my business downhill which I would prefer to do. So yes, that’s possibilities. We haven’t gotten there yet. haven’t felt we needed to add more. I want to stabilise what we do in the summer before we start thinking to

 

Erwin  

specialise the summer. Yeah, and then we’re going to grow the summer part is it more trailers more tents?

 

Andrew  

Yeah, we’re gonna keep acquiring more units. So the tents did really well. We have three more that we didn’t even set up this year. So we’ll be setting up the remainder of those will be acquiring more trailers. You know, the big thing for us has been finding finding trailers just Kijiji marketplace. And hopefully they’re most So you’re renovated on the inside, don’t need too much. And you know, if we need to paint the outside, give it a theme, decorate it, you know, we’ll hire a designer to help us make it really cool. And we just we want to make we want to focus on the memorable, you know, whatever, whatever that might look like, but something super unique, where people are going to Instagram it. They’re gonna say, wow, look what I stayed in, like, I’ll never forget this experience, right? It’s not a hotel room. It’s something that they’ll remember.

 

Erwin  

That’s pretty cool. We were organising any like real estate investor,

 

Andrew  

I was thinking about that. We don’t really have the space as of right now inside we have lots of outdoor space

 

Erwin  

but even just to coordinate like these, yeah, 50 spots or

 

Andrew  

we’re gonna do we’re gonna not Yeah, so that’s, that’s something that we can definitely consider I was thinking about that we just never got to it this year. But, you know, as we we, you know, scale up and get this next year in the works. There’s, there’s so many places, that’s the nice thing about it, it’s just like endless opportunities to add value. We have we have 90 acres, some of that is like marshland but we’ve still got tonnes of space tonnes of sites where we can convert them into glamping where you know, a single tent site can generate $45 A night whereas glamping tents could do you know 200 plus 250 I mean, we may increase our prices even more for next year just based on the demand we had this year. So you know, just thinking in terms of an operational strain on our septic facility on our well on our management team, you know, we’d prefer to to focus on the value experience where people are paying more getting an experience and then you know, we can give our management a break we’ll come back and we don’t need to drive you know 1000 People through the site a day or we can we can do much less than that and you know keep our sanity get really good reviews and and grow the business more organically that way

 

Erwin  

are you doing to drive traffic on Airbnb are we’ve done really

 

Andrew  

well with our Instagram like our Instagram page, we ended up partnership with explorer Ontario and got like US government, right zip tourism is a tourism is a tourism website. I’m not sure if it’s government, but I think we paid them like $500 for a partnership sponsorship. And they they promoted it. We had 16,000 comments on the post. We got so many bookings I’m sure we got between 20 and 5025 and 50 bookings out of that because they can’t directly trace them you know, people go to Airbnb and booked but it was well worth it. We did it again with the airstream got a bunch of bookings on that those promotions were very, very lucrative for us. Good luck, good return we’ve got we’ve got our Google AdWords, you know, working away for us for the campground that’s been, you know, steady and not not that we’re spending a tonne. But we’re getting very targeted, you know, people wanting to camp in our area. And we know that that’s ideal, but there’s so much more we can do. During the policy standpoint, I

 

Erwin  

should ask this earlier. Is it all on Airbnb or is it

 

Andrew  

so yeah, we’re on Airbnb, we’re on booking.com. And our preference is obviously to people to book direct at grotto. getaway.com. And yeah, they can see all our listings there and book and we’re going to have for the upcoming season, we’re going to have our new launchings coming up first on our website, so yes, they will be available on Airbnb, but we’re going to do like special promos where people can book early through our website, because we want to start doing more that way. Because obviously there are certain limitations to working with Airbnb. And it’s very expensive. But Airbnb has been good. I’m pretty sure we’ll have our super host by the by March 1, I think October 1. And I think we have like, last time I checked like 130 reviews. Since it and we didn’t even have retros until the end of June. Crazy. Yeah. So it’s it’s been interesting process tonnes to learn a little bit more intense than, you know, passive real estate. But,

 

Erwin  

but this is not passive. No, I

 

Andrew  

take it can be made more passive by having good teams though.

 

Erwin  

Can you share some numbers? The acquisition cost is this property,

 

Andrew  

New Year 1.5 million to acquire. And as far as revenue goes, I suppose cheaped a lot of people 2.9 Yeah, see, like, you know, revenue targets like I don’t know how much I should say right now, but I you know, just out of respect for my partners, but we did well, we didn’t do as well as we wanted to this year, but it’s a startup here. And you know, treating it as a new business. So we’re confident with a full season next year it’s gonna you know, it’s gonna be a profitable year. And I’m just gonna wasn’t as well because we were delayed the delay. It hurt us the most right? And like if you think about Airbnb, and he photos, right, and you don’t want photos with trees with no leaves, so you need trees with leaves, and you know, tents, trailers, you know, some of those things were it was just like, when’s the ideal time to buy a campground if you’re going to do this? There is no ideal time. Like no matter what, like you’re gonna buy it mid season, no one’s gonna sell you a campground mid season because that’s when they’re making money. Yeah, pipi price, peak price and they’re making all their money. They want to wait until October until they’ve milked every last cent cent out of that campground then they want to sell it which is exactly what the owner who saw the task did smart. Hey, why would you? Why wouldn’t you? Knowing that like we, you know, we did our best, but I mean, you don’t really get leaves on the trees until mid May anyway, we should have been ready to take photos and it just didn’t work work out there. That way, we didn’t have enough help. So we’re kind of acknowledging these things, seeing what we needed to change. And next year, we’ll be ready or

 

Erwin  

injured. We were way over time, but you are a wealth of information. So I apologise.

 

Andrew  

Oh, cool. Yeah, I have no idea what time it is. But yes, before

 

Erwin  

we overtime for this, and then we’re gonna get into chairs, YouTube after this. Final thoughts, General,

 

Andrew  

general thoughts on the market on anything? Yeah. Interesting times, I think like people who are thinking about getting started, I don’t know how much of your audience that is. But never been more important than to focus on the fundamentals. It was always important. But now I think people are really starting to internalise how important that is, you can’t expect your property to go up in value. In fact, why not invest with the expectation your property’s gonna go down in value and still be alright with that, you know, maybe you can start looking for cash flow plays where you don’t care if it goes down. 100 grand, you know, it was all relative to what you pay. But you know, you can you can still invest here, I still believe Ontario’s a place you can invest in becoming more and more lucrative by the day. But you know, somebody, someone like me to go and go to Florida? I don’t think that that’s for everybody. I really don’t I think that you have to have a certain skill set certain experience. And you got to be very diligent, and I was prepared for that. But I don’t think new investors necessarily would be which I agree with you, you know, saying invest closer to home when you’re starting down the road? Yeah, you can look at something like that more seasoned investors. Yeah, I know, tonnes of them reaching out to me wanting to do it, and they’re probably ready. But not everybody is.

 

Erwin  

Because we’re finding property we can we can buy for less than build costs. So that’s a pretty

 

Andrew  

good guy. And that’s gonna become more and more common. And I’ve always said, you know, buy for less than cost a replacement, because I mean, they’re not making any more land. And if you can’t build it for that price, the long term outlook on that property is probably pretty good

 

Erwin  

in labour and construction is scarce as well.

 

Andrew  

So it is like it’s not getting cheaper to build things right now. And will it if demand comes down enough? Yes. But where we’re at right now, I think that’s a great strategy, buy for less than cost of replacement is a good strategy right now. Doesn’t mean that’s perfect doesn’t mean every property that fits that bill is going to be a good one. But it’s it’s probably a good starting point. Yeah, no one rule is perfect. And not for everybody, even if it’s perfect. For one. It’s not it’s not perfect for all,

 

Erwin  

like, you might want one 2% rule, but you’re gonna buy a caregiver like Andrew.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, that was that was a different play. That was that was real estate adjacent, you know, as a business with real estate component, which, you know, the big thing was owning land and wanting to own a lot of land and check that box. And we’re getting it to a point where, you know, it’ll satisfy cash requirement too. And that’d be a great way of hanging on to a bunch of land

 

Erwin  

the dumbest question for you Sure. That’s gonna ask him you on the way I’m gonna Jim Crow. Don’t do that.

 

Andrew  

I don’t think that is allowed. But I know that, you know, there’s a lot of hunting out that way. You know, it’s a very much a hunting culture, you know, especially in like the surrounding sobble area. I would assume this area too.

 

Erwin  

Because I’m just thinking like, if all hell goes a handbasket, you need to live somewhere off the land, but you can live off the land easier than I can live off

 

Andrew  

the land. grow some food

 

Erwin  

on your animal friends, you don’t want to hurt them.

 

Andrew  

Yeah, I mean, like, have some chickens, maybe eat the eggs. I mean, I eat vegan but I mean, like, if it ever came to it, I would you know, but I don’t feel like I need to so I don’t, we’re just

 

Erwin  

crazy, cuz you’re a big guy. Alright, Andrew, thanks so much for doing this. Yeah, thank you had fun podcaster and yeah,

 

Andrew  

this is this is such a cool setup, man. It’s cool. I’m looking forward to having you back on my podcast and we’ll we’ll dig into what you’re doing. Can’t wait.

 

Erwin  

Before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow but with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there are forget the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more and register for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself but So many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff

Subscribe on Android

 

To Follow Andrew:

Website: https://youtu.be/j27DutOz8ic

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theandrewhines/

Grotto Getaway: https://www.airbnb.ca/users/461668746/listings

IG: https://www.instagram.com/thegrottogetawayglamp/

 

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 
 

 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Closing on 5 Apartment Buildings and 177 Units in 2022 With Quentin D’Souza

Quick rant on rent control…

I posted on my Facebook and Instagram story where 100 prospective tenants lined up to view a rental property in Dublin, Ireland.  Their government, wisely, please read the sarcasm, implemented rent control so rents do not keep up with inflation forcing landlords to sell their investment properties. 

The next property owner may move in this, removing rental supply or a new landlord, typically with deeper pockets than the previous, will want a return on their investment hence turnover of the tenants, renovate, and raise rents.

The supply and lower-end rents are forever gone, and the rich get richer.  

Rental developers do not like rent control. However, no capitalist wants their prices to be controlled, so it’s down to the government to build us enough housing… good luck with that.

My team, iWIN Real Estate and I will provide an economic update and drill down into what investments we’re getting into, including turnkey properties. You wouldn’t believe it, triplex conversions. 

We’ll get into the details around the strategy, renovation plans, budgets and calculating cash flow, so you don’t want to miss it. Saturday, September 17, 2022, at our office in Oakville.  Just two more meetings until the Wealth Hacker Conference on Saturday, November 12th. CLICK HERE TO REGISTER.

Much to learn, network and wealth building to be done!

On the personal front, the new Tesla Model Y we’ve had for three weeks has been an experience! The electrical quotes were steep as we have an in-law suite occupied by our nanny’s family, so our electrical panel is quite full.

The Tesla charger itself is $700, but a dryer outlet will do if you already have one.

The learning curve is steep, like going from my analog Nokia 8210 I had in the year 2000 vs. a modern iPhone.

First off, it’s one-pedal driving because the Tesla abruptly slows down once you remove your foot from the accelerator pedal because the regenerative braking kicks to recover some energy wasted in braking. So I rarely touch the brake pedal anymore.

The Autopilot is pretty sweet. It’s especially good in traffic as the Tesla will come to a stop and go when traffic moves again.  I do have to wiggle the steering wheel once in a while when queued, so it knows I’m paying attention.

The storage is great; our hotel on the weekend had a great parking spot near the lobby with free charging. Not that charging is expensive. A full charge for a depleted battery to 100% is $7.30, and that’ll take us over 500km, but we use less than 20% daily, so it costs less than a double double at Tim Horton’s to drive it. 

Of course, we would not consider the Tesla without the $55,000 plus HST deduction. Thank you, Justin Trudeau, for giving the rich such a lovely tax benefit, lol.

Much to learn, network and wealth building to be done!

On the personal front, the new Tesla Model Y we’ve had for three weeks has been an experience! The electrical quotes were steep as we have an in-law suite occupied by our nanny’s family so our electrical panel is quite full.

The Tesla charger itself is $700 but a dryer outlet will do if you already have one.

The learning curve is steep like going from my analog Nokia 8210 I had in the year 2000 vs. a modern iPhone.

First off, it’s one pedal driving because the Tesla abruptly slows down once you remove your foot from the accelerator pedal because the regenerative braking kicks to recover some energy wasted in braking. I rarely touch the brake pedal anymore.

The Autopilot is pretty sweet. It’s especially good in traffic as the Tesla will come to a stop and go when traffic moves again.  I do have to wiggle the steering wheel once in a while when queued so it knows I’m paying attention.

The storage is great; our hotel on the weekend had a great parking spot near the lobby with free charging. Not that charging is expensive. A full charge for a depleted battery to 100% is $7.30, and that’ll take us over 500km, but we use less than 20% for our daily use, so it costs less than a double double at Tim Horton’s to drive it. 

Of course, we would not consider the Tesla without the $55,000 plus HST deduction. Thank you, Justin Trudeau, for giving the rich such a lovely tax benefit lol.

Read more about the tax implications here: https://realestatetaxtips.ca/buying-a-tesla-and-save-22826-of-tax-immediately/.

Closing on 5 Apartment Buildings and 177 Units in 2022 With Quentin D’Souza

Speaking of rich people, this week we have the very successful Quentin D’Souza on the show. 

There are many coaches and Multifamily experts, but in my experience, Quentin is one of the best. I know many of his past students, including Steve Phillips, on my iWIN Real Estate team and his investment partners. Not many share a track record of success like Quentin.

He’s on today’s show with Cherry giving the interview as I was out hosting a golf event with fellow 7 figure entrepreneurs, so as we sometimes do, “divide and conquer.”

I wrote down some questions I wanted to ask Quentin about apartment building investing, investing in the US, where best to find cash flow, and what the future holds. 

You know, the same stuff you ask anyone who bought five apartment buildings or 177 units this year alone and is always looking to level up.

Quentin is an old friend, the Chief Education Office and founder of Durham REI, a really great, long-running networking group that meets monthly; he’s authored four books, including the most recent ”The Action Taker’s Real Estate Investing Planner” link https://www.amazon.ca/Action-Takers-Estate-Investing-Planner/dp/099367173X?dplnkId=a0338035-2ffa-4400-9b24-053578dc6df7&nodl=1#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div.

Obviously, a big-time investor. 

Please enjoy the show!

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show, I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and I.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you too are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so but for now we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel, we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

This episode is also brought to you www.stockhackeracademy.ca where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full time musician and he just made 50% return in 2021.  Past of course does not predict the future but if you’d like a free demonstration go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right, click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

Erwin  

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Truth about real estate show. And my name is Erwin and I have a quick rant on rent control. I posted on my Facebook and Instagram just last week, an article about how 100 Plus prospective tenants lined up to view a rental property in Dublin, Ireland, their government wisely, this is sarcasm, their government wisely implemented rent control. So the rents do not keep up with inflation forcing landlords to self investment properties, the next property owner may move into the property, thus reducing rental supply or a new landlord. Typically one with deeper pockets. Some of these are massive investment funds now, they’ll want to return on their investment. Hence they’ll turn over the tenants renovate and raise rents the supply and lower and rents are forever gone. And the rich just get richer. Understand that rental developers and people who build purpose built rentals, they do not like rent control. Hence, we saw a whole bunch of projects get cancelled, when rent control was reinstated by the Ford government. No capitalist in general likes their prices to be controlled. So it’s down to the government down to the socialists to build a system of housing, that I am not gonna hold my breath. I’m gonna do what I can to take care of myself, my family and my kids in terms of rental housing. So my team at Island real estate team and I will provide an economic update and drill down into what investments we’re getting into, including turnkey properties, and you wouldn’t believe it. Thanks to this market correction, we’re actually seeing more and more opportunity for triplex conversion going from single family to three. And we’re just talking about lack of supply. My clients and I were creating supply, sometimes doubling or tripling that of one property a single family home, we’ll get into the details around strategy, renovation plans, budgets, and of course, tucking in cash flow. So you don’t want to miss it on Saturday, September 17. That Saturday morning, doors open at 830. At our offices in Oakville, Ontario, just two more meetings until the wealth hacker conference on Saturday, November 12. I’ll post the link in the show notes to register for our meeting. There’s much more fun to learn out there. And there’s always much smarter to learn. And of course, networking with like minded folks, and wealth building to be done. On the personal front, our new Tesla Model y we’ve had for about three weeks now, it has been quite an experience, the electrical quotes were steep, we had to upgrade our panel and obviously have an electrician to instal the Tesla wall unit. Just to test the wall unit just to charge her nothing fancy. It’s not a battery or anything but the charger itself is seven or $700. Or you can just you can just use a dryer outlet. If you happen to have one in your garage, which we do not we do not the learning curve of owning and driving a Tesla is really different. I would compare it to my old analogue Nokia that I had back in the year 2022 years ago, versus a modern day iPhone, it’s completely different. The technology inside of Tesla is really impressive. For example, we dropped off the Tesla to get wrapped for protection on the front end and some window times whatnot. And I was just curious if they started work yet. So I checked my Tesla app. And I could turn on the cameras within the car and it did check where it was. And also have exact GPS location. So I know they moved in the car. Also, the Tesla operates under one pedal driving, because if you take your foot off the accelerator pedal, I used to call the gas. Now there’s no gas, so they call it the accelerator pedal. So that’s one call to when you take your foot off it or ease off of it, the regenerative braking kicks in, it’s actually pretty abrupt. That’s it’s pretty hard break. That’s what it feels like to the point of that is to recover any energy wasted during the braking process. Hence, I actually rarely break anymore. So it’s pretty cool. Also really cool is the autopilot feature, which is the fancy cruise control. It’s especially good and stop and go traffic as the car will come to a stop if the car in front of you stops. And when the car in front of me goes, the car will go without me really having to touch anything. I do just have to keep my hands on the wheels wheel to let it know I’m still there. Once in a while. Charging hasn’t been that bad. And we’ve taken it on like a road trip already up to Blue Mountain Village. And the next thing was our hotel for the weekend. They had a great parking spot for our Tesla for the free charging station right next to the lobby. And again, it was free. Not that charging the cars expensive for a zero to 100% Charge. We’re talking to $8. And then for our daily usage, Jerry and I we use less than 20%. So we’re talking about the cost of a Tim Hortons double double. It’s really inexpensive to drive. Of course, we would not have never considered buying a Tesla without that $55,000 plus HST deduction for tax purposes. Thank you Justin Trudeau for giving the rich such a lovely tax benefit.

Erwin  

understand almost everything electric vehicles over 50 grand the Tesla Model y was was significantly more than that. It’s the most expensive car you’ll ever own. And we’d never do this deal without this monster tax credit. Thanks to our lovely government, you can be more of a tax implication and I would left a link to cherries article on the on a tax savings for buying a Tesla or equivalent electric vehicle. Speaking of rich people, this week, we have the very successful Quint D’souza on the show. There are tonnes of coaches and multifamily experts out there but my experience Quentin is one of the best. I know many of his past students, including Steve Phillips on on my island real estate investment team. And I know many of its investment partners. They’re all like Clinton’s legit. Let’s leave it at that. Not many have a successful track record like Clinton’s, so you probably want to pay attention to this show. He’s on the show today with cherry actually, Terry’s been delivering the interview. It’s always out hosting a golf event with fellow seven figure entrepreneurs. So Charlie and I had to quote unquote, divide and conquer. We don’t conquer anything, though. I don’t know why. You can see that term, actually prepared the questions that I wanted to ask Quentin personally about pardon building investing, investing in the US where to find cashflow these days, and what the future holds. You know, the same stuff you’d ask for someone you know, with hundreds of units in their portfolio. Yeah, quite. It’s pretty successful if you don’t know and also like the show title. Quinn has closed or real close on 177 units this year alone. He’s always looking to level up Quinn’s an old friend. He’s the chief education officer and founder of the germ Rei, a really, really great long running working group that meets monthly majorem region. He’s authored four books including the most recent the action takers, estate investing planner, and I’ve linked in the show notes to the Amazon that are going to search Amazon you can search Quentin D’souza or again the name of the book The action takers real estate investing planner. Obviously, Quentin is a big time investor. Please enjoy the show.

Cherry  

Hi, Quentin. 

Quentin  

Hey, how you doing cherry

Cherry  

Welcome to our truth about real estate investing Show and welcome to my very first podcast host duty show. I hope we will be doing okay. What’s keeping you busy these days?

Quentin  

Let’s see I’m buying apartment buildings. We closed on in March we closed on 17 unit and a 24 unit 24 unit was in Kingston 17 unit was in Belleville we’re closing on 100 units at the end of this month. Next month we’re closing on 20 unit and another 16 unit. So we’re buying apartment buildings. Keeping me that’s keeping me busy. Seems sounds

Cherry  

a little bit busy. But how’s how’s the summer How’s been? How’s been not being a baseball dad.

Quentin  

So it’s been really good. My my oldest son got on to the York bulls baseball team. So we’re going to be doing a lot of that in September and October. He has doubleheaders every weekend, my younger son is doing house league baseball, and we were really enjoying that. I did a trip to Machu Picchu or the Inca trail with my oldest son we did a week at the end of June and we and then both my son’s we did a whitewater rafting trip at the beginning of August for about four days. So we had lots of fun there. 

Cherry  

So that’s amazing. 

Quentin  

Yeah, it’s been good. 

Cherry  

Yeah, I hear baseball is worse than hockey in terms of training schedule. And then also competition schedule.

Quentin  

The definitely is a lot, a lot of time, but now that he drives and so that makes it a lot easier. So he is able to drive himself to practice. And my older son works out like every day. So he goes for like two or three hours, takes the car and goes and works out comes back. Right. So like it just it makes it a lot easier. And then we just show up to the games.

Cherry  

Yes, that is very that’s like I would say 80% of the battle. Yeah.

Quentin  

Oh, yeah, for sure. There was a lot of of chauffeuring going on between Laura and myself, just, you know, getting the kids to different events and stuff like that. And now with the older one driving sometimes you can take the younger one. Oh, that’s amazing. I hope so. Quite a bit for sure.

Cherry  

How do you like go like, I don’t know if I would ever be able to like completely like go drive the car, take the car and not worry about that.

Quentin  

Well, I mean, you still worry about them. The other thing was he’s not driving my truck. We bought another car using this. We call it the family car. Oh, okay. Right. And it’s neither my wife’s car, my car, we’re, you know, we have a third vehicle so and it’s just like, little Hyundai can’t remember. It’s just like a little Hyundai and you know, it’s great for getting from A to B and so it’s worked out well. That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s amazing. And he’s been really good about you know, we we He make sure that he contributes to the, you know, the car. So he’s paying for his insurance then yeah, and then, you know, after the first tank of gas, because that’s to get to work and to go to the different places he’s paying for anything additional to that. So want to make sure that he has some responsibilities to, you know, when it comes to keeping in maintaining the vehicle, any tickets he’s gonna pay? So

Cherry  

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So like, like going along with that line. I know, you have been an educator for many, many years before you jump into being a real estate investor full time, and you’ve got a wealth of knowledge to share. And how are you educating your kids? Because your kids are? I mean, my kids are eight and seven, they’re relatively young, maybe 10 years behind your kids? How are you educating them? And how are you developing their financial sense?

Quentin  

You know, it’s being open having conversation. So at dinner time, my wife often says that we talk about finances quite a bit. Right. And it is something that I never did when I was a kid, but I’m making sure that we talk about it now. We talk about, you know, prices, we talk about inflation, we talk about just different concepts, real estate and the purple book, right, the Robert Kiyosaki book. Yeah, we, I would have them listen to that when we did car trips. So I did I put on the, like, the audiobook version when they were younger. And when I took them on long trips, I would just put that on. And then we were talking about concepts. You know, I like definitely encouraging the older one to read books. And, you know, making sure that that he reads the books. Right. So that’s, that’s been good. The younger one, he’s still you know, he’s interested more in cryptocurrency and NF T’s and that sort of thing. So I’m encouraging. I bought one of his NF T’s. Right. So I was like, Sure, I’ll buy it. I don’t know. Yeah. Right. So I’m encouraging them to experiment. And, you know, do that. But yeah, I mean, it’s always, it’s always about sharing, and just telling them what I’m doing. Like, I’m often saying, Look, I’ve raised this, we’re buying this, this is what I’m doing, right. So I’m pretty open about it, so that they understand what I’m doing. They don’t understand the details and going into it. But if they are interested in I’m always happy to share more, right. So

Cherry  

that’s really cool, really cool. I’m trying to make Bruce do these burpees as they do, as he does burpees, he earns, like 10 cents per burpee. And so he’s doing a lot of burpees. Lately, it was by accident that we discovered that Bruce was bruises only seven years old. So he’s like quite young, he doesn’t really quite grabs the concept of money. So it was by accident, he loves to go into he loves going to the gym with me. So my trainer offered him 10 cents for burpee, because he’s always reading the book at a gym. And so he started doing burpees, he got so excited about doing burpees because of the money that I realised, hey, like, you’re actually very motivated by money, I’ll just pay you to earn that money. And then a few weeks later, we go to Niagara Falls, and we were at this breakfast place, which is totally a tourist trap. Anyway, so they charge $5 for a cranberry juice, a glass of cranberry juice, and Bruce wanted the cranberry juice. And I said, that’s fine. So you have to pay for it as $5. And then I said how many burpees? Do you have to do 500 books. He’s like linking the two and he’s regretting it. So he’s linking the two. I know, it’s not a direct kind of science to match the two, nobody is going to pay him to do burpees ever. But it’s kind of like introducing that concept. I think introducing it and talking about what you do. I think leading by example is also extremely to me, it’s extremely important. I’m trying to live up to that standard.

Quentin  

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, like they they really need to know that. Like there is different ways to earn, like money as well too. Right? So that’s, you know, time per hour. Right? And that’s definitely how everybody starts off. Right? And then there’s other ways like investing your funds in order to have your money make money for you too. Right. And that comes later on but that’s that’s great. That’s a definitely a fundamental concept for them to learn. So that’s that’s pretty cool. I like that.

Cherry  

Hey folks, his burpees So you mentioned that you have been so busy purchasing closing properties and then skelding properties to buy as well. Can you share with us where or how you’re investing in finding these deals because majority of the people are complaining like there was no deals out there. Maybe there are more deals now after the interest rate has gone up so much. But before people were complaining, like I can’t find these deals.

Quentin  

Well luckily I have a book on that top Back to finding properties toolbox. It goes into a lot more detail. But with there are a lot of different approaches to being able to find properties, particularly multifamily properties. And it’s more about the relationships that you have than it is about the marketing strategies, there are a lot of like, I get, like, every week, I get mail from realtors, from people who want to buy directly, like, who’s purchased a list and our, you know, mailing apartment building owners directly, I get phone calls from brokers asking me whether I want to sell my buildings, right. So there’s that approach to doing it. Another approach is talking to, you know, the people who are interacting daily with apartment building. So talking to property managers and saying, Hey, listen, especially because I’m not a realtor. So I can say, look, property manager, if you have, you know, of one of your clients that are looking to sell, I will pay you $5,000 referral fee, if I close on the building, and I’m happy to do I’ve paid a property manager $20,000 to close on a building, and then I refinanced all my money out of the building like two years later. But, but I mean, like having those just because I know I can do that, I do that. You can talk to trades and be able to find that. The other thing is that develop relationships with realtors and brokers who that’s what they do daily. That’s the relationships that they have are with building owners, that’s where you’re probably going to get your biggest result is developing good relationships with people who are actually in the trenches day to day dealing with the relationships that they’ve built over the last 1015 20 years to connect with other building owners. And now they’re connecting, what they’re trying to do is connect the buyer and the seller together themselves. That’s who so if you can build those relationships, those are three different strategies that you can use to, you know, be able to pick up multifamily buildings. And if you want more go pick up a book.

Cherry  

So what’s the percentage of your property purchase? Through the strategies that you mentioned? Or are they also on MLS? How many are through your relationships, or your network? And how many are really through the public MLS? I saw this list thing, like the rumour or the story that I’ve always been told is that when you buy multifamily, it’s never on MLS, those are like probably the last ones that you would look at.

Quentin  

I don’t think I bought a build apartment building off the MLS at all. I don’t think so nothing I can think of off the top of my head. No, the other 25 Plus buildings, none of them have been on MLS Wow. Not that I can think of usually, it’s relationships. Yeah. Just trying to think if there was one on the MLS or not, and no, but

Cherry  

that already gave me the all the audience the percentage that, you know, if you want to get into the game, you’re not just relying on MLS, you have to develop these relationships.

Quentin  

And that’s actually why people tend to want to partner with me is because I’ve developed all those relationships. And you know, I’ve been able to, like, have the deals that that makes sense. And I have developed partners who get deals as well. And like, all of that stuff is things that have been developed over the years, right. I often make jokes, sometimes that MLS is where good deals go to die, like, especially in the apartment building space. But I mean, if I was to list the property, I would probably want to list it on the MLS, right? Because I know that I would probably be getting the most I could for for them. Now if you develop a relationship with a broker, and they’re able to give you the price that you want. And it makes the most sense because based on cap rate and net operating income, you get the price that you want them Why even go to the MLS at the same time. Right? Does that make sense? So I don’t know there’s there’s a lot of pros and cons, I guess. But when it comes to buying properties, it’s always been based on relationships and relationships that have been developed for sure.

Cherry  

Like I have to say, early on in my career, I was very focused and very narrow minded and I would just hide myself in the home office like cranking numbers and crunching tax returns and doing all these things and it wasn’t until recently like just to be fair, I I am still at heart and introvert people don’t call me an introvert but I am at heart very much an introvert to put yourself out there to do the network and make yourself known is not my own nature. Are you an introvert? Yes, you are.

Quentin  

Oh yeah, I’m a big introvert. Well, yeah, sometimes you can see me A party’s and I’m, I’m just sitting there looking. You know, I do push myself to be able to go out and talk to people. You know, most people would call me an extrovert, but I’m not like I am. It’s just not, you know, I like to sit in think honestly, I would rather be going for a walk by myself than I would be in a party with a bunch of people. Like I would rather be hiking or, you know, camping and I’m good with being by myself. You know, it’s funny, I was at a retreat once, and people were all talking about, like, what they would like to do. And I was like, Well, I just like to be on an island by myself for a week.

Cherry  

I don’t think I’m not that extreme yet.

Quentin  

You know, I just sometimes like, you know, I, when I was in university, I did tree planting, right, and tree planting was enabled me to pay for university, and I got paid per tree, but I wouldn’t be working by myself for eight hours, just like hard labour. And that was fine with me, I was good. You know, you crave at that point, you start to crave being social with people, right? Because you’re often by yourself, but I was okay with it. Right? Like, you know, everybody’s different, you got to kind of do you do have to talk to people, you do have to do events, and you know, but it’s about pushing yourself, right? I’m a very goal oriented person, we, I like to do travelling I like, you know, I like to do, and push myself to do new things. And that makes me get out of my comfort zone. And the only way to grow is to get out of your comfort zone. So I agree. Sometimes I tell people, if you want to change, especially what you’re doing, add a zero to every deal that you do going forward. Right? And all of a sudden, you move from a $1 million deal to a $10 million deal. Totally different, right? That’s gonna push you out of your, your comfort zone, right? Kind

Cherry  

of the 10x mentality. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s

Quentin  

not for everyone, right, you have to decide for yourself if that’s for you. But if you want to grow, you need to do something different. You can’t grow by doing the same thing over and over again, you need to grow by doing something different. And then once you find something that you’re happy with, then you just you know, you can continue to get to a point. But what gets you to one place is not going to get you to, you know, a different place. You have to change what you’re doing.

Cherry  

Absolutely. So speaking of that changes and going into different markets and buying multifamily, because we talked about earlier on between us that you grew from you didn’t start buying multifamily unit, no, like 100 unit in one town. Right from the get go. There was a journey from your beginning from the beginning to now and you also quit your job focus on this full time. I want to revisit that story a little bit. Because I think to our listener here, there is a lot to learn from you. Because a lot of us are attracted to real estate because they want financial freedom and dreaming one day that hey, maybe one day I can quit my job with the real estate portfolio. How did that happen to you?

Quentin  

Well, I mean, what ended up happening was that I built a small portfolio of properties, mostly single family homes and duplexes. And I ended up with about $5,000 a month in cash flow that had come from my portfolio. This was back in 2013. And 12, I had bank, I’d been banking that money aside, and then 2013, I needed to make that decision whether to continue or not. Now, when I quit my job, I really only had that one source of income, I was running the Durham real estate investor club. And that gave a little bit of of income, but it wasn’t as much as my portfolio was. And then when I quit my job, I added another form of income, which was flipping properties, which allowed me to gain and all I was doing was the same buy fix refinance strategy that I was doing before, but instead of refinancing, I was just selling them off. I always have a backup strategy. Whenever I did those projects, I always have two or three different ways to exit a property, either refinance and hold or refinance and partner with somebody or sell which is what I was doing at that time. And I was just I was just selling them off. And what was useful about that, and I don’t think a lot of people realise this is when they quit their job, you’re not going to get financing anymore. It becomes much more difficult to do that. Now you could go to be lenders, you there are different ways to go about doing it, but it becomes a lot more challenging. So what I ended up doing once I realised that that wasn’t going to be how I continued to grow unless i i I partnered with other people who would qualify. And I did. I’ve done that before. But what I ended up doing was moving to the apartment building space where it wasn’t based on my qualification, it was mostly based on the building qualification, right. And that allowed me to scale and can continue to grow. And then as I refinanced those assets, I was able to recapture some of the equity that I could reinvest into other projects and to do do what I needed to do with that. So, you know, I think that one to four unit properties are great for people to start to create that that base layer of financial freedom. And then once they take that, they get to a point where they say, Okay, now I’m going to leave my job, you know, I’ve created this great base of income. Now it’s time to think about moving to apartment buildings, for sure. And maybe even just before you do that, to move to apartment buildings, because I think that is where you actually create wealth, you create net worth, and you’re not creating, I think sometimes the mistake is that people think that apartment buildings, you know, they’re not a great cash flow generator, the thing is, is that you have to change your thinking into how that cash flow comes to you. Because in an apartment building, you may be reinvesting all of your cash flow into the asset. But in year three, or year four, year five, you refinance all of your money out, right. And then in year six, you do it again. Yeah, right. And they really the challenge is to make sure that you’re not extracting too much equity, so that their capital gains aren’t theirs, you’ve extracted so much equity, that there’s, you can’t pay the capital gains if you decide to sell the asset, right. So that’s, that’s a, that’s a problem. But that’s not a problem with, you know, one to four unit properties, right. And so it’s a different model. And I think that as you grow in what you’re doing, depending on where you’re at, that’s when you need to decide on what you’re switching to right. I have a great chart where I show, you know, people start off in the build phase, and then they move into the growth phase, right. And when they move from the build phase, they have high leverage, right? Because you owe everybody starts off with high leverage. And then as you’re building, your leverage starts to decrease and your cash flow starts to increase. And as you get further along in your real estate investing career, you end up with, you know, very low leverage, higher cash flow, but that takes time to be able to get to that point. The issue with real estate is that you can be equity rich and cashflow poor. Yeah. Right. And so

Cherry  

lots of clients like that showing negative every single year.

Quentin  

Yeah. And the challenge is, okay, well, then how do I how can I leverage the those one to four unit properties in order to access some of that equity, and maybe you lend it out, maybe you do some some other strategy in order to create cash flow from that. But that is really a problem with one to four unit properties. In the multifamily space, it’s based on net operating income. And because I can add, increase my rents, I can increase the value of the building, thus, I can refinance the asset a lot easier, and then recapture that equity and put it to work again into more assets.

Cherry  

So what’s the typical loan to value when you refinance? When it comes down to the multifamily space?

Quentin  

It just depends on the debt coverage ratio, and it depends. So let’s say you’re going to CMHC financing, you’re probably at a 1.2 debt coverage ratio. But that could mean an 85% loan to value depending on the asset. And we just did. Was it a 17? Unit? Yeah, the 17 unit was a 40 year amortisation 85% loan to value. Wow. But the debt coverage ratio is 1.2. On the asset makes sense?

Cherry  

Yeah, if you can get 40 Yeah, that’s amazing.

Quentin  

Right. And, and that’s in the multifamily space, right. So it is very different. But could I qualify for a car loan? This makes no sense. But this is the banking system, right? Instead of taking a loan, I’ll just pay for it in cash. All right, and then that’s fine. Like it’s just a different way of doing it, unfortunately. Right. But because I don’t have a T for income in the same way. I have to make sure that my my corporate books are in order. I can show what my corporations are making, but because I don’t take it personally because I don’t need it. Right. I may not be able to even it’s such a weird I know, weird situation. Right?

Cherry  

Yeah. Yeah. That’s how our banking system work. That’s right. So in Canada, yes. So okay, now that you mentioned in Canada, so I’ve seen somewhere that you’ve invested in the States. Yes. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. How are those investment coming along?

Quentin  

So I have, I’ve got properties in Tampa in Tampa properties I bought in 2008. Team. And because I couldn’t get financing, I had to purchase them cash, right? I couldn’t get financing on them. And then I got a foreign, like, what do you call it like a foreign buyers loan or whatever. And it was like 7% interest rate at 65% loan to value, which was a real pain. But since that time, just earlier this year, I actually was able to get a loan with a financial institution that had in Canada that had an office in Florida. And so what that enabled me to do is get a 75% LTV at like a rate that made sense, which was like 4%. Yeah, the properties in Tampa, I’d actually doubled in value since I had purchased them. And you know, now it’s still cashflow is about $2,000 per month on those assets. And you know, and I’ve got different, I’m involved in different projects down in, in the US, but I see my stuff in the US as a hedge against the Canadian economy gives me the opportunity to get paid in US dollars. And you know, that’s really the main reason for investing in the US. And it’s important to, you know, from a tax perspective, to avoid double taxation. Yeah, right. Because if you’re not structured properly in the US, you could really like it can really mess you up. And I find that a lot of advice out there is bad advice, because it’s old advice that doesn’t work anymore, like use LLCs. And things like that, right, which just don’t work anymore, right?

Cherry  

It’s not just that like we had in our practice. I mean, this is truth about real estate investment show. But I can’t help to talk about some taxes. We’ve helped a few of our clients doing some structuring Layli worth their US purchases. And we found that without experience, even with the great limited partnership structure, we see some crazy number of taxes, the Combine between the Canadian and the US side is crazy, even with the proper tax structure. And it’s almost like a cost of doing business outside of Canada, that people often don’t account for. So that’s the part that I always wanted to do up sort of a presentation on eventually, one day, I’m not ready. I’m not there

Quentin  

yet. So that would be a great presentation, I’m sure Yeah, yeah,

Cherry  

absolutely. So you know, a lot of investors in different stage in their journey. And I mean, I want an I never really invested in never made a lip to invest in, I guess, in apartment building. We wanted to every time like I went to the multifamily conference, I will I see all these people taking all these massive action, I talk to Sarah, I see that all everyone’s doing all these massive action, the only hope I have is like, I have my own accounting business that I do have to take care of. And my, my husband, Irwin has his own real estate team that he has to take care of we have businesses, and how much of the involvement in the day to day involvement. Do you like how much time do you need to do this thing?

Quentin  

So that’s a trick question.

Cherry  

I’m not sure.

Quentin  

But it depends on how you answer it. So what I would probably say to you is then you partner with somebody who is somebody who does the day to day work, and you don’t take on the amount of work that’s required in order to do this and build the relationships and do all those different things. So you don’t have to be that person that oftentimes I have. I have conversations with business owners, and usually professionals like doctors, dentists, I’ll talk to just different people who are busy. And instead of being you don’t have to be the person who is the operator and do the day to day to benefit from apartment buildings. You can be a partner and it’s okay. Okay,

Cherry  

so how does that how does that number work? Tell me Tell me pretend that I am the Crazy Rich Asians I’m no. I am. But how does the number work? Like if I were to put in like $200,000 and invest it in one of your projects? How does it work?

Quentin  

Well, I can’t really present something like that on a show like this. But like, in general, what happens is that you would take your your funds, and you would own an actual piece of the building, you’re actually an equity owner in the project. This is not like a fund, right? Like you’re actually an equity owner. So that that is shares that are equity positions in the building. But what happens is that within that within that structure, there are people who are you know, more active, those people will have a higher percentage, but they end up doing the business plan. So they’re working on you know, the day to day operations of the building. They’re all So doing the, you know, making sure that the property is going to be able to be refinanced and pull all the funds out. So usually what happens in year three to five, we’re looking to refinance the building and make sure that our partners are able to get back the funds that they invested, but they still own the equity share of the building. Right. And so if you think about that, from a return perspective, that in three to five years, that’s very lucrative. Yeah, right. And I mean, nobody can promise, you know, anything. But I’ve been doing this since 2009. You know, and I, you know, I work with people that I like, and that, like me, and I think you don’t have to be the person who is in the day to day. Now, if you wanted to be the person who is, and this is the other side, if you want to be the person that is going to be in the day to day, there are lots of great people that have courses and that that you can learn on, you know, how to do underwriting on multifamily building to make sure that you’re able to carry out a business plan, right, you need to spend time and effort into learning that business, you need to be able to develop the relationships and go out like, I’m often like, maybe once a week, at least going out for lunch or meeting somebody this morning, I was here as meeting I was, you know, I’m always meeting people in building my relationships. And that’s something that you’re going to have to be able to do, if you’re a busy business owner, you don’t have time to do that, right. So you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of things in the background that you need to do as well, you could just buy a building off the MLS, that’s definitely something that you could do. But that doesn’t mean that you’re going to be cashflow positive, when you’re doing that. And it doesn’t mean that you’re going to be in the position to refinance in three years. But it could mean that you still own that asset, right. So it just depends on like how you want to go about doing this, anybody can buy real estate, you don’t have to be you don’t have a PhD to do that. The problem is, is that, you know, buying the wrong asset is going to be a lot more expensive than just partnering with somebody in giving doing the right thing, right. Because like apartment buildings, like if you end up with an asset, that’s losing money every month, and then you have to put in 100,000 or $200,000, for renovations, and then you have to, you know, pay somebody to leave. And then you have the LTV issues that come up, you can be out like hundreds of 1000s of dollars, which is very different than, you know, dealing with one to four unit space. And that’s often why I say start off there, right. But I often have like we are usually, you know, working with people who want are working in the one to four unit space, don’t want to get into the commercial space, but know that that’s where they want to go. So when they saw an aside or, you know, they may work with us. Yeah, right. There’s just different ways of doing it. Like, yes, you can definitely do it how much time is really based on the amount you want to dedicate to it, right? That’s the success you’ll have, right? If you want to be great multifamily investor, expect to spend, you know, 20 to 30 hours, just like every week working on that business to a point where at some point, you’ll know what you need to do. And then you’ll be spending a lot less time doing it. Right? Just like any business,

Cherry  

absolutely. 100%. I like your when we go to events, we often get pumped up and think oh, it’s super easy. You’d like tomorrow, I the day after the event, I would hear or see my clients saying like, I’m doing this, my goal is this big. And I’m like happy for them. It’s just that at the same time, I’m looking at my own personal situation like, can I just quit my accounting job and just do this full time. And that’s not something that I can at this point I want to do. And so that’s why I’m like, I need a realistic picture in terms of how much time commitment you need, I guess with any business is the same.

Quentin  

It’s the same with your profit, like how long did it take you to get to where you are?

Cherry  

A long time? Eight years, 10 years, 10 years? Eight years?

Quentin  

Yeah. And same with me, it’s taken me that long to be able to build my portfolio to the size that it is and develop all the relationships and the business partnerships and all of that that got me to this place. So yes. Can anybody do it? Yes. Anybody can open an accounting practice. Can you? Can you be a successful accountant with a successful practice? That’s very different. Yeah,

Cherry  

absolutely. I agree. 100%. Yeah. Now speaking of all these investments, where do you think that interest rate is gonna go? That million dollar.

Quentin  

All right, first of all, I hate that question, because I get asked all the time, but I have to ask. I know. And, but the thing is, is that interest rates are just an expense. Let’s not get like people get all caught up with what’s happening in the last 30 days, and lose sight of what happens in the next 10 years from today. because if you think about interest rates in the fact that okay, interest rates have gone up, you’re probably thinking, you know, because the one to four unit market has lost 25% In the last six months, or whatever it is, you’re losing sight, the fact that in the last 10 years, that same asset would have probably tripled in price. Yep. Is it more like so let’s start to focus on whether the property cash flows that makes sense is cashflow positive, and you’re able to carry that asset based on, let’s say, 10 year rates? Can you carry that asset based on tenure rates, and that way, your stress testing, whatever you’re buying, and you’re able to hold that asset for the long term, because if you’re able to, like, if you’re able to hold that property, and everybody out there, I want you to think about, if you bought whatever property you lived in 10 years ago, what is it worth now? Right? Yeah, it’s probably worth a lot more. Yeah, right. Especially if you’re in a market that makes sense. Like, you know, we have population that’s coming to that area, we have different sorts of employment, we see governments that are investing into the infrastructure in the area, we see all of those good things that make the the economics of an area. Good, right? If we’re doing that, that’s what we should focus on. Because interest rate is just an expense. It’s just like property management. It’s just like property tax. It’s all it is, is an expense, let’s not get carried away, is what I want to tell people look at, stop thinking about what’s happened in the last 30 days and start thinking about what’s going to happen the next 10 years. And then make sure that you’re buying properties that are cashflow positive, always I’ve always said that if you buy a property that’s cashflow positive, and, and your plan is to hold it for 10 years, and you’ve stress tested the asset so that you know that you’re going to be able to withstand, you know, rates that go up, then what doesn’t matter what interest rates do?

Cherry  

So that’s such a tricky answer as well. The reason is, because then it leads to a lot of the questions that maybe I don’t get, but a lot of our clients would, would be asking that those questions. How do you find these cash flowing properties? Because it seems like it’s disappearing, like I think Durham and Hamilton Hamilton is where I invest. And I know you invest in Durham heavily, at least in that one to four unit space. So how do you find the properties that would still at least let’s not go to cashflow positive, let’s just go into like cash flow neutral? How do you at least find that properties that would be able to give you enough rent to support everything?

Quentin  

Well, let’s say prices decreased 20 to 25%. All of a sudden, you’re gonna see assets that make more sense. That didn’t make sense before. Yeah, the trick is to stop being fearful and, you know, start being greedy, because this is what everybody else is they’re being fearful. Aside from that what ends up happening over time is that you move out from from a market and you move further out. But you want to make sure that the economic fundamentals are there with whatever market that you’re interested in. So maybe instead of being in like 10 years ago, I could have bought a property in Pickering, and it would have been cashflow positive. I’m not going to buy a property in Pickering. That’s cashflow positive today, right. So I’m going out to maybe Bowmanville to be able to buy a similar asset. Now I’m still in the Durham Region. And but I’m going further east, right? Maybe I’m in Peterborough, maybe I’m in Kingston, maybe I’m in Belleville, right. And I’m looking at different markets as long as all the fundamentals are there for the market. And you you see the long term, macro economics are there. And then the fundamentals are there, that helps you to make a decision on where you’re going. I may be called the Durham Real Estate Group, but we have people from all over the place that come because it’s not about that it’s about buying cash flowing assets. So maybe what it is, is like people need to start thinking about a different area. Like if it’s if the area doesn’t make sense, right now move to a different area that does, right start, don’t get pigeonholed?

Cherry  

Well, we have, we work with a lot of clients who buy pre construction homes, and they they feel comfortable because they know and it’s like less to maintain, because it’s only a pre construction condo per se. So there was only 800 square feet to maintain. There’s only so many appliances in there. And so a lot of these people are unable to get financing. They are running into different challenges. And but they see the capital gain appreciation because they tie up your money for a number of years. And therefore there is that, I guess not forced appreciation but the market has gone up over time and then they see appreciation and they see this success. Would you say that over the last 10 years? To me I’ve seen so many different deals and some people are doing great. Some people have developed systems and I are truly successful. But there are mistakes that we may like to be honest, like I’ve seen in my own portfolio, we’ve sold a couple of properties that are barely breaking even. And I feel like we’re breaking even we’re lucky because thanks to the real estate boom, rather than, like my own success or my own decision making, I don’t like I don’t know, if I’m explaining myself well enough. I think what I’m trying to say is that real estate because of the asset class, it has been going up. And can we continue to? Can we operate smartly? And can we take advantage of the growth? Is what I’m trying to say the instead of relying on luck?

Quentin  

Yeah. And I think like, I’ve got to say, I’m not like, I am not a fan of pre construction, anything. I think that’s more speculation than anything, but this is my own personal opinion. And I, everybody does it their own way. So however you want to do it, yeah, I prefer to buy an asset that is cashflow positive from day one and continue to manage it. And you know, I think that there, you have to decide, I’m saying that from my perspective, because I don’t think it’s wrong for people to do that. You just have to decide for yourself, why are you doing it, like if you’re doing it to pass on intergenerationally a condo to your kids, and you want to be able to do that, you know, maybe that’s a great asset, or you’re looking to add net worth, or you’re just trying to make a quick buck, like whatever your reason is, are you trying to create cash flow, so you can quit your job, all of those things, kind of push you into different assets, right? Like when I’m buying, I’m not buying. But if I were to buy a pre construction, I’m betting that today’s price that I’m locking into is going to be lower than the price that it’s going to when it’s completed is going to be sold that right. And whether I take possession of that asset or not is, you know, it’s just going to depend on what I decide to do. Now, the tax consequences going to be different depending on whether you’re holding that asset or not holding that asset. Right. And so that plays a part, but not everybody talks about that, right? Oh, I

Cherry  

tried to trust me, I tried to every other videos is about assignment HST, and then assignment income, but people don’t like to hear it.

Quentin  

Yeah, well, they don’t like to. But that has to be part of that the like the thought pattern where most people, and I like to buy assets that I’m going to hold on for for the long term. I’m not looking to do quick flips. And I also think that sometimes those pre construction condos are, are marketed as quick flips. Right? And I just don’t, it’s just not me, that’s my point of view. I think that, you know, if you’re buying that asset, it’s cash flow neutral right now, I would say how can you change the way that it’s run right now, in order to change the way that the cash flow comes from that asset? Do you need to go back to your tenants and say, Listen, you know, I don’t think that this is, I’m not making any money here, maybe I can pay you, you know, a couple grand to leave. And, you know, we can end the tenancy, maybe I can, I can do something else to make sure that that cash flow is is there in that asset, you know, that, like, I think we’re only locked in because we think we’re locked in, right, there may be other ways to go about doing this. And, you know, thinking about the different ways that we can create cash flows from an asset to make it different, helps us to be able to hold on to that asset. So, you know, I understand what you’re saying. The other thing too is like, you know, there are rules that we can take advantage of, for example, if you have a unit that’s been created, I can’t remember the date is that like November 2018, or something like that, it’s built after that you’re not in rent control in Ontario, for example. And that allows you to like if you are cashflow neutral, all of a sudden you bump up or if you built a basement suite from an unfinished space, that basement suite maybe is not under rent control, but the upper unit is but that that basement unit can make maybe make you cashflow positive in a way that allows you to hold on to that asset right. So let’s like let’s be creative. Let’s think of ways that like I’m I’m a total you know I like to think of different ways to be able to do things there’s not always one way right and so like let’s you know what I would say is okay, let’s take a look at that that asset and see what we can do with it in order to make it cashflow positive. There’s there’s lots of ways to do that.

Cherry  

That’s amazing. Well, thank you so much you’ve shared so much with us today and I am very thankful to have you on our get like as my very first podcast host guest so thank you so much and if for anyone who wants to reach out to you or find out more about term Rei, how do they reach out to you Oh,

Quentin  

You can go to Durham rei.ca Or if you want to reach out to me I can I’ll do a 15 minute call if you are the right criteria if you go to Quentin D’souza dot com, and then you can we can chat and see if there’s a good fit.

Cherry  

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, again. wealth of knowledge, as always, and I appreciate it. No problem at all. You

Quentin  

did a great job to us. Awesome.

Cherry  

I just need to ask questions and have my text twist to it. That’s it. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Oh, you’re welcome.

Erwin  

Before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow. But with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there are forgive the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more and register for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself but so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

TO FOLLOW QUENTIN:

Web: www.quentindsouza.com

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 
 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Recent Self Made, Real Estate Investor Millionaire, Hamilton/Sudbury, 28 y/o Joseph Costanza

With everything going on in the world right now, we’re fortunate to be Canadian

If you don’t believe me, ask your friends with family in China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Russia/Ukraine, and even New Zealand.

 
 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Erwin Szeto (@erwinszeto)

If you can believe it, a country with a population of only 5 million people has a higher average home price than we do here in Canada; hence they’re experiencing a massive brain drain in losing talented people moving out of the country.

In Dublin, Ireland, over 100 people waited in line outside a house for rent in Dublin, Ireland! 

Thanks to inflation, rising interest rates, and the inability to raise rents to match rising costs of living thanks to rent control, Ireland serves as a sneak peek into what we who operate under rent control have to look forward to.

The Smart Prosperity Institute just produced a report stating our housing shortage in Ontario is 471,500 units, and 1,034,900 new units are needed to keep up with demand over the next ten years for a total of 1.5 million units.

Unfortunately, the government forecasts only 700,000 new homes to be built over those same ten years. 

If you’ve been following the news or speaking to builders like me, you’ll know many projects have been paused, delayed or even cancelled.

There are a lot of unknowns going forward; however, here at iWIN Real Estate, my coaches and I are staying on top of the available economic data. 

I’m talking to people like my neighbour who works for a major consumer product company in supply chain management. 

From what he can tell, the Americans are 4-5 months ahead of us economically because they never truly completely locked down as Canada did, and the numbers don’t look great out of the US.  

Consumption is down; some job losses are already announced. For example, Ford Motor Company just announced 3,000 job cuts this week.  I don’t see how we, as Canadians avoid the same fate.

But I’m no fear monger; I fear for the short term and bullish in the long run for real estate; hence my team and I will be summarising all our research and how our clients and we are taking action. 

Some are selling; some are buying.  

We’ll be sharing what deals look like in this market to prepare and weather the current storms, and we’ll share our predictions on what interest rates will be doing over the short term at our September 17th iWIN meeting.

This is our first iWIN meeting since the summer break, so we have tons to share on what income prices are selling for, why certain properties take longer to sell, and what the rental market is doing; hence it’s not one you want to miss. 

We’ll be cutting through the clickbait and bullshit by sharing what we’re doing with our own $$ and portfolios all on September 17th at our iWIN Real Estate office in Oakville. 

Get tickets here: https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/erwin-and-cherrys-iwin-real-estate-meetup-september-17-2022-tickets-403481302437

This market is also the wildest I’ve seen, making 2017 look like a speed bump in the road. 2008/9 is a closer comparison, and we invested back then and will survive this cycle as well.

On the personal side, I’m now volunteering at our Brazilian Jiu Jitsu club during my kids’ class. I must have ADHD as I have issues sitting still and watching, then the problem got worse as they asked us, parents, to wait outside the matted class area.  

So what’s a bored parent who already spends too much time on their phone do? I bought a uniform and volunteered, so now I’m an extra set of hands, eyes and ears to ensure the kids don’t hurt each other plus, I get to observe the instruction and provide some pointers to the kids.  

The best part is I’m learning the curriculum so I can practice with the kids outside of class, have more in common and spend more time with the kids as I work enough as is.

The kids seem to dig it, so I guess I’ll keep this up till they’re sick of me 🙂

Recent Self Made, Real Estate Investor Millionaire, Hamilton/Sudbury, 28 y/o Joseph Costanza

On to this week’s show!

We have a young rock star in Joseph Costanza, who was 24 when we met and owner of the title of the youngest client we’ve ever had.  

He’s a young hustler who, when I met him, had three jobs: Architect day job; bartender, evening weekend job; landscaper with remaining time not sleeping.

Thanks to all that hustle and saving money by living at home with his parents, young Joe saved up enough money for his first investment property of now five properties.  

Crazy enough, he’s already made his first million dollars; hence he’s now our youngest of 45 self-made investor millionaire real estate clients at 28.

Joe’s here today, along with Coach Tammy from the iWIN Real Estate team, to update us on his expansion project in Sudbury, which didn’t go so well, and his lessons so you may avoid the same mistakes he made.

Plus, a gem of an expired listing in Hamilton that coach Tammy helped Joe with, that eventually was priced well under market because the property failed to sell, was rough, and the challenging tenant with previous orders against him by the Landlord Tenant Board.

We talk numbers on the most recent deal, so have your pens and calculators ready or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca, and we can send you Coach Tammy’s draft numbers.

Please enjoy the show!

 

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show, I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and I.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you too are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so but for now we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel, we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you www.stockhackeracademy.ca where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full time musician and he just made 50% return in 2021.  Past of course does not predict the future but if you’d like a free demonstration go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right, click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

 

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

 

Erwin  

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to another episode The truth about real estate investing show. And there is literally so much going on in the world right now. And what often comes back to me practising gratitude that I am Canadian. If you don’t believe me, ask our friends or ask your friends and we’re a family in China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Russia, Ukraine, and of course, even New Zealand. If you can believe it, New Zealand, a country with a population of only 5 million people has a higher average house price than we do here in Canada, hence, they’re experiencing massive brain drain people are leaving the country, talented people are leaving the country. And that’s usually a bad thing for an economy when smart people you know, for example, like doctors and leading entrepreneurs when we’re taking their talents and their job creation elsewhere. That’s bad for an economy. Hopefully that hasn’t happened here in Dublin, Ireland, over 100 people waited outside in line, a house for rent one house, there’s my house for rent 100 people waited outside to view the house thanks to inflation, rising interest rates in the inability to raise rents to match rising costs of living thanks to rent control, Ireland serves as a sneak peek into what we may run into as we to operate under rent control. And hopefully this is not a feature we have to look forward to, in Ontario, in Canada might imagine anywhere else, where there’s rent control, and rent control provinces with lots of growth. You know, like BC, for example, like Nova Scotia, for specifically for Ontario, the smart Prosperity Institute just produced a report stating that the housing shortage in Ontario is 471,500 units. 471,500 units is how much the current shortage is. And 1,034,900 new units are needed to keep up with demand over the next 10 years, for a total of 1.5 million units. So we need 1.5 million units to be built over the next 10 years. Unfortunately, the government also paid for a study to be done. And there’s only going to be 700,000 new homes to be built over the same those same 10 years. So again, this is revisit the supply versus demand demand is there for 1.5 million. And supply is going to be less than half of that as 700,000 new homes to be built over that those same 10 years. Of course, the news really gets worse because if you’ve been following the news and speaking to builders like I do, I understand I’m friends with lots of builders, and who are part of builders associations, you’ll know and also it’s in the news, you know that many projects are being paused, delayed or even cancelled. So even less housing based on the current news is being built. There’s lots of unknowns going forward. However, here at iWin real estate, my coaches and I are staying on top of economic data. And that’s proven really helpful. I’ve mentioned a few times on the show, we haven’t had any clients with experiencing closing issues, because a lot of things they just worked out that we did. And it’s nothing like we’re seeing out there in the market. For example, we’ve had lawyers on the show, who described their regular retail consumer type real estate clients are having all sorts of problems closing on property, their appraisals are not coming in, and they’re not able to close because they don’t have they cannot come up with the downpayment necessary to come up with it for the shortfalls and appraisals, since the market has dropped. But anyways, we’re staying on top of things here. And thankfully, it’s worked out really well for ourselves and our clients. I’ve mentioned before that Terry and I, we ordered our appraisals on our properties for our refinances back in February. And thankfully that worked out that timing worked out very well. I’ve also been talking to people like my neighbour who works for a major consumer products company, they distribute and sell many products you have in your home, he specifically works in supply chain management, from what he can tell the Americans are about four or five months ahead of us in terms of economic terms, as in, their consumption is down, they’re buying less. You’ve also been well, if you fall, I like to read articles on corporate earnings. So for example, Walmart, their sales are down as well. People are consuming less instead of the article. She the CEO mentioned how they’re seeing sales down on, for example, four gallon jugs of milk are being replaced by sales of two gallon jugs of milk. So people are downsizing but they’re buying anyway. So the numbers don’t look good. The Americans are likely to four to five months ahead of us economically. And the theory would be is because they only like half locked down versus Canada as a whole country locked down pretty good. So they’ve had they’ve had more freedoms. So Canadians are still consuming heavily right now. So that’s my own experience. I was just in Blue Mountain Village and up north very popular recreational resort style area in north of Toronto, and it was absolutely packed A parking lot was packed, the hotels were packed, the restaurants were packed, the bars were packed. My point is, is that because Canadians were locked down, we’re taking that we’re taking our time now to enjoy our summer enjoy our freedom. And then my guess is in a few months time, we’ll start seeing Canadians start consuming less, you know, because stuff is expensive, might start seeing some pain in terms of job losses, for example, for just announced 3000 job cuts this week, they’ll mostly be in North America, Canada, USA, and I don’t see how we as Canadians avoid a similar fate. But please understand, I’m no fear monger. I do fear in the short term. But I’m bullish in the long term for real estate, am I investing and my stocks and my crypto I don’t most of all of its down this year. Hence, my team and I will be summarising all of our research and how we and our clients are taking action on this current market. Some are selling, some are buying. We’ll be sharing what deals look like in this market, and to prepare and also how we’re doing what we’re doing to prepare to weather the current storms. And we’ll share our own predictions for interest rates, where the market will be going in the short term. At our September 17 Ioan meeting, this will be a first time meeting since our summer break. So we have tonnes to share on what income properties are selling for why certain properties are taking longer to sell what the rental market is doing. Hence, this is a meaning you do not want to miss will be trying through the clickbait and the Bs by sharing what we’re doing with our own money and what our clients are doing with their money. And that’s all on September 17. At our island real estate office here in Oakville. Same place, same time, it’s a Saturday morning, so traffic’s been nil. The doors are open like 830 ish, there is no online option. You do not want to miss it. Understand that this market is the wildest I’ve seen. And I predicted early on that we could easily see 2017 happen all over again. But 2020 is making 2017 look like a speed bump in the road. I think 2008 2009 is a close comparison to what we’re seeing. I don’t think it will be as bad based on what I’m reading from the top economists in the world, and top economists in Canada. And to be honest, we invested back then we did quite well, we did more than survive this cycle. And I think we’ll do more than survived the cycle as well. On a personal side, I’m now volunteering at our local Brazilian jujitsu club during my kids class, I must have ADD, as I have issues sitting around and watching classes, then the problem got worse as we parents were asked to wait outside the amount of class area. Yeah, so it’s a poured beer for parents to do a bore parent, such as myself where he spends too much time on their phone. So what I decided to do was I bought a uniform, and I volunteered. So now I’m an extra set of hands and eyes and ears to make sure the kids don’t hurt themselves. Plus, you get to observe the instruction or close and provide some pointers to the kids. The best part is I’m learning the curriculum, so I can practice the kids outside of class and you know, have more in common with them and spend more time with kids as I honestly work enough as the kids seem to dig it so far. So I’ll guess I’ll keep this up until they’re sick of me. Oh, by the way.

 

Erwin  

Our our September 17 meet up. Link is in the show notes. If you’re on our emails or you follow me on social media, you’ll get the link you’ll see the link there to purchase tickets, clients, of course you go free onto this week’s show. We have with us a young rock star and just stanza who was 24 when we met 24 years old when we met and the owner of the title of the youngest client we’ve ever worked with. He’s young Hustler, who when I met him, he had three jobs. He is an architect by trade. So that was his day job, bartender for evenings and weekends, and a landscaper with the remaining time he wasn’t sleeping. Thanks to all that hustle and saving money by living home with his parents Young Joe saved up enough money for his first investment property. That was back in 2019 January 2019. And now he has five investment properties. Crazy enough he’s made his first million is actually about a year ago, he crossed the million dollar mark in terms of increased his net worth. Hence he’s also the owner of the title as the youngest of our 45 self made real estate investor millionaires of age of 20 I think it was 27 at the time anyways, if someone challenges him will will will sharpen our pencils and figure out the exact age of Joe. Joe is here today along with coach Coach Tammy from the AVID real estate team, my team to give us an update on his expansion project how that went in Sudbury when he was looking for diversification and his lessons from it not going so great. But you know, Joe’s smart and talented hands he bounced back pretty well. He got a gem of an expired listing and Hilton, that coach Tammy helped Joe with that was eventually priced well under market because the property failed to sell. It was rough later found a hole in the roof that could fit a soccer ball through and a challenging tenants with previous orders against them from the landlord tenant board. We talked numbers on this most recent on this most recent deal so have your pens and calculators ready or email us at Iowan at infinity wealth.ca And we can send your coach Tami’s draft numbers. Please enjoy this show. Okay, Joseph what year to be me?

 

Joseph  

2019 2019 you’re how old 24 When we met once you 23 Then turn 24 Once we bought four and then I turned 25 Okay, so

 

Tammy  

you wanted January 2019? Yeah.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, right after New Year’s that whatever that first event that you put on.

 

Erwin  

That’s big event. That was the one on the hill, Shawn Allen for referring you. Yes. Yes. Thank you, Shawn Allen.

 

Joseph  

I was going to like networking events and stuff like that. Prior but Sean’s lives in London. He was doing a networking event in Toronto we loop buyer Byron says by thing I can always always mess it up.

 

Erwin  

Your European

 

Joseph  

I can’t roll in our for my life. Didn’t matter. How’s your Italian? A horrible absolutely horrible my mom is very upset with

 

Erwin  

is your Italian better than his? Yeah,

 

Tammy  

probably my probably better than yours. And I just married one.

 

Erwin  

That’s the show is going off the rails? Why were you going to real estate meetups you you had at the time you had a career in your training. So you’re already making career wise as much money as you could?

 

Joseph  

Yes. But I think I was kind of looking to I don’t really know what I was looking for it to be honest with you. I had a few things that I wanted to I had a lot of money saved up

 

Erwin  

from that wasn’t that much money. It wasn’t more than to notice a lot of money to me. It

 

Joseph  

was a lot of money for most 2423 year olds. It was a lot of money for Yeah.

 

Erwin  

$80,000 Yes. That I worked very hard for but listen to your credit cards now. Yes. really different. Yeah, that’s fair. Yes. It was a lot of money.

 

Joseph  

Yes. Life Saving at the time. It was like my life savings.

 

Erwin  

Yes. But you blood and sweat it before since you were 16?

 

Joseph  

No, like more like right after more like after school kind of thing. Okay, but like still like working two three jobs study

 

Erwin  

for it. You basically never had to date your life. No. Until oh, gee, until real. It’s all downhill from there. To your parents. Yeah, they got you good. till you’re 24 to get debt free. And the new meta Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, no, I just wanted to kind of I wanted a little bit more for myself. I wanted to have a little bit more ownership of something. And I think the initial plan like in all honesty, the initial plan was to take the 80,000 by Tesla. Yes. Because the shares, right? No, Tesla Tesla car okay, but I don’t know what changed it. I think I had listened to a few episodes of bigger pockets or something along those lines. And that got me hooked up my show. No, I’m sorry. Sorry. I found you later on. I’m sure it all down here. Yeah. And then that kind of got me into it. Rich Dad, Poor Dad, my kind of dad went through pretty traumatic kind of heart attack experience. And then that kind of shifted from there. It was just kind of like I need to do something about this. And that was kind of like November of 2018. And then I started going to like a networking event every every other week. And then stumbled on to Iowa and grew up from there.

 

Erwin  

Like your yada yada your your father’s health scare.

 

Joseph  

Yes. Heart attack.

 

Erwin  

Why was that a trigger for you to

 

Joseph  

he thinks simultaneously as he was having as he had a heart attack I was like really deep into the weeds of reading Rich Dad Poor Dad and cashflow or not cash, not cashflow. tribit and Cashflow Quadrant and all those other books, and kind of still listening to real estate podcasts and stuff like that. And so I think he would just like the connection of the two and just that was just that I was just, I was hooked after that. And it’s always something I’ve always really wanted to do too. Like he’s always really like this like not necessarily in the investment side. But just like real estate in general has also been has always been like a something that really intrigued me. So it kind of took over from there was a

 

Erwin  

kind of, it’s not uncommon. We’ve actually had a lot of people on the show where a major life event usually with their parents that got them really going like really crank the crank up the temperature on their want to hustle to do more quickly. Was it just like you realise like Life is short?

 

Joseph  

I think. Definitely a little bit of that. I really don’t know, I never really I didn’t really take much time to think about it. It was just like, I’ve always been someone that was just like if this one needs to get done, I do it. I don’t really have any second thoughts about it. I just, I’ll learn as I go. So I’d really didn’t learn take time to learn that much about real estate before just jumping in, had the money to it’s not like I was like had to save up that much more to have all the money. I didn’t have all the money but

 

Erwin  

as you didn’t just have not not have all the answers. You didn’t have all the money.

 

Joseph  

But I think I’d have been exposed to real estate or a younger age through a series of different kinds of people in my life and that kind of helped to kind of make the job into it. Yeah,

 

Erwin  

the finding the money piece you actually detailed more now, just a year ago, the last episode. But unfortunately for you, we’ve gained about four listeners, I’m sure like both from 13 investors now to 17. So we need to, we need to spend some time to bring the other four listeners up to speed. Got it. Okay. We did that for them. Hopefully that was worth your time. For listeners will be appreciate that we brought in Georgia to we spent some time to bring you up to speed. And if you’re interested, go back and listen to the episode with George Costanza. This is your third time. Fourth time

 

Joseph  

fourth time. Yeah, we’ve we’ve done a yearly update every year since I started.

 

Erwin  

Okay, so what’s keeping you busy these days? Well,

 

Joseph  

in the next few weeks, I’ll be going to Greece. So that’s really been kind of doing a little backpacking trip for myself in Greece, just I needed a vacation. Yeah, I needed something just for me. I’ve really spent like the last four years really haven’t gone on anything major. A road trip here there been like nothing overseas or anything like that. So I just decided it was time to like treat myself. Um, besides that I’ve been in the last kind of five to six months been liquidating some assets and whether it’s in crypto or in or real estate to kind of make room financial flexibility for the market right now. And to kind of start taking advantage of the market in the kind of the next few months is kind of my projection. I don’t know everyone’s different. But that’s kind of what I’m feeling out right now. So

 

Erwin  

what did you sell off real estate wise,

 

Joseph  

I sold ours. I

 

Erwin  

know, we haven’t sold anything in Hamilton.

 

Joseph  

I have not sold anything in house firm. I’ve we’ve actually recently purchased something in Hamilton. But I sold off a property that I purchased in February, there was just a bunch of stuff that was going wrong with it. And so I decided my budget, my money was better used somewhere else than in something that wasn’t making them money or it wasn’t I didn’t have any sort of time horizon to start making money. And so it just made sense to kind of liquidate and move on to transition those assets into something else.

 

Erwin  

So what got you into Sudbury? What was what was the month? But because this is about 12 months ago? What was when you get inside?

 

Joseph  

When did I get in? Must have been March? It must have been? No, it was February of last year,

 

Erwin  

February of 2021. Yeah. What were you going through

 

Joseph  

a series of reasons I actually really liked the city. I think it’s a great place for investments. But I think the approach that I had was wrong, but that’s a different conversation. I went there just more for the from the cash flow perspective. Hamilton wasn’t cash flowing the way I wanted it to

 

Erwin  

cash flow if anyone wants to do more, more is always the answer. Yeah. How much cash? Would you like more?

 

Joseph  

That’s fair. That’s fair. No, I just wasn’t cashflow in the way I wanted it to. And I was trying to find a market that would cashflow a little better for me. And I liked the kind of future prospects of Sudbury with green energy becoming a major player in the space and having so much nickel up there and whatnot. So it was I think it was more of a nickel play, to be honest with you than it was a real estate play isn’t wrong. No, there was nothing wrong with it nice to actually really liked the city. Like I still have a property there right now. But the it just the renovation that I was doing there wasn’t really going the way I wanted it to. And so I just decided that it was time to kind of cut ties.

 

Erwin  

So this is a trick about real estate investing. It’s not always rosy sunshine and roses, is it? No, it’s not. So where did you find this contractor that didn’t go that went sideways? Fantasy coaches and legal troubles didn’t?

 

Joseph  

Oh, yes, we’re still I’m still dealing with the legal troubles actually, right now. So yeah, not not fun. Do not recommend it. But yeah, I found them through the network kind of through through people that I’ve met down there.

 

Erwin  

Sir, I’m sure.

 

Joseph  

Since found out that there was people kind of certain connections that I didn’t make at the time, that kind of may have changed my opinion about hiring a certain individual or certain company. But nonetheless, I tried to look at it more like a like a lesson rather than a mistake. Right? And so I’ve been really, over the last, probably the last, I’d say five to six months and really kind of analysed since we’ve kind of since I decide to sell it really analysing what What mistakes did I make and how do I avoid them? And how do I kind of improve my process going forward? Whether it’s in the hiring process, or in the vetting process? Or how do I really kind of iron out and don’t have these, essentially these these issues that came up from from this one guy? And it seems like it was just one thing after another with him and that was a complete fault of my own for maybe not vetting them properly.

 

Erwin  

Yeah, there’s a lot there though. Yes, great. Responsibility. Part of like taming I do is we also take responsibility for referrals we make again Oh, I know, I can think back to one contractor that’s had legal issues with our clients. And I’m we’re getting on the phone with him and yelling at him. Like you’ll never yeah is pretty. I’ve never yet I

 

Joseph  

almost haven’t seen you. I pretty much

 

Erwin  

never yelled in the business transaction in a business relationship. Right? I’ve had issues with other realtors and stuff like that. And yeah, people on my team, but still professional, because I still need things to progress. Right? We still need to keep it professional. But yeah, that Jeff guy yelled at him. And he just lied his teeth and everything. So the people that the folks that made the referral to you to general contract, did they? Do you have an escalation point?

 

Joseph  

Did I have an escalation point. And so

 

Erwin  

I got from corporate world, right, it was a big blue for seven years. So if someone in the company, if I’m working someone in the company, and they’re not doing what they said they’re supposed to do, I go to the boss, that’s just how it works in corporate, right, like for when we intervene and make referrals, we’re not their boss, but we’re often their number one referral source. So there’s some accountability there, we have some leverage in the relationship. So if our clients not happy, then we make the phone call, and let them know, we’re not happy that our clients unhappy, right? And then they know, because of our business relationship, like where basically, they don’t have a marketing budget because of us, right? They don’t have to go find clients, because we were making all the refer to we bring them clients. So if they want that St. Say stream of clients to continue, you have to make my client happy. And that’s often not hard. We’ve had many folks come to us because I like working with our clients. So what my question is, like, was there is there an escalation process? Because with us, absolutely is

 

Joseph  

in there? Yeah, there definitely is. I mean, like, even when I have issues, if I have issues with a renovation that I’m doing in Hamilton 99% of the time, it’s coming from you or someone else that is in the group, and it just in through conversation, like it will call each other talk to each other. And it’s like, oh, what’s like, what’s going on with this property? Oh, this going on? Not really happy with this. But we’ll get there. And then all of a sudden, that problem is fixed. And I call Tammy, I’m like, what would you say? Like, why are you what what’s going on? Why you’re getting involved. And but it just is nice, because it was like it was always like there was someone there kind of watching out to make sure that everything was going smoothly. Besides just me, I didn’t have that same experience there. And not to say that there was anything particularly wrong with it. I just didn’t have that. I think coming from an experience here with the group that you’ve put together, where everyone’s kind of family and everyone kind of works together to help each other out. There. I felt it was a little bit more lone wolf. more basic. Yeah, yeah. But just there wasn’t a network that was set up that is set here. And so I think just through a fault of my own knots, assuming that the process would be very similar, I didn’t do probably a well enough job of kind of understanding what needed to be done at the time.

 

Erwin  

But and what your experience isn’t different than what was No, I

 

Joseph  

imagine, most people have a similar experience, if they’ve had a contractor relationship go south,

 

Erwin  

like most Realtors offers offer basic services for join a search, they can book your showing appointments, open lock boxes, you know, ask you if you’d like the property or not, right, prepare all the paperwork and stuff like that, you know, it’s just for Tammy and I, we this is how we’d like to like to be service. Like as realtors, we’re paid a lot of money. Right. So I think a high standard of care is appropriate, including yelling at your contractor, if we have to call him threatening their business.

 

Tammy  

You know, I don’t even the vetting processes, it’s can change. And you have to roll with a little bit too, because, you know, even the contractor that we had, where things had went south, we had multiple people working with that person who had success as well. So it was really hard to know. And sometimes those things happen. So I think a big thing is to know when to recognise it, and when things need to be addressed and fixed or walked away or that kind of stuff, which you know, you did afterwards. I think that was that’s important too. And to know that it’s okay to walk away sometimes from things as well. failures. It’s

 

Joseph  

yeah, that was that was probably the biggest challenge for me was walking away, not because it wasn’t a smart financial decision, because I made money on on the sale. It’s not like I didn’t make money on the sale, even though we were only halfway through the renovation. It was I think there were a lot of it was there was a lot of ego involved. I was really kind of caught up in what is my image? And what does it look like if I quote unquote, fail? Yeah. And that held me back. So these issues are coming up back in November, and I realised that we close in August, renovation started mid August. And by the time November hit, I kind of taken like a month away and my brother’s wedding was in October and it hadn’t really gone up for like probably about five weeks. And then I started going up pretty consistently in November. And there was no progress made since mid September. And so I was going up every single week to and no progress was being made every week. I mean, like maybe one thing here or there but like in all honesty like I do more on weekends at my property than this guy did in the whole week.

 

Erwin  

And they have a crew.

 

Joseph  

He has a whole crew exact, and that’s his only job. Yeah. So that’s how they make a living. That’s not how you make a living.

 

Joseph  

Right. And so I think I kind of got caught up for probably about two to three months, not wanting to sell more from an ego standpoint. I wanted to, but a lot of it was I wanted to push through for myself, I wanted to kind of overcome the obstacle. But the thought that was rolling through my head is maybe it’s better to sell, maybe it is a good time to sell. And I was really battling with it. Like I was researching prices, what can I get for the property? What would be? What would be my exit? How much kind of leeway do I have before I start losing money on this deal? And a lot of not wanting to sell was because I didn’t know, I was worried about how people would see me. And then I think I think it could have been a conversation that we had over the phone at one point. I think you mentioned like your like you mentioned something about, it’s okay to make mistakes or we. Yeah, exactly. And it’s okay to kind of let go if something’s not working out,

 

Erwin  

like my crypto stocks. I wonder if you’re talking about? Sorry,

 

Joseph  

no one I sold some crypto to back in February. Yeah. And so I think realising when I finally came to terms with it’s okay to kind of make them realise that you’ve maybe made a mistake. And that the important thing is how do you adapt from that mistake? How do you kind of manoeuvre when you have made a mistake. And so looking at the property, not really seen a time horizon when this renovation would be done already firing the contract or having nobody out there, I realised my money was spent better somewhere else. And so keeping it in what I would call a dead asset wasn’t really an option anymore. And so that’s when we kind of started the process of selling.

 

Erwin  

Thank goodness, you didn’t lose any money.

 

Tammy  

That’s what I was thinking.

 

Erwin  

It was tough. It’s tough when you’re losing money in real estate, because it’s leveraged.

 

Joseph  

I can. Well, that was that was, I think that was the biggest fear. I mean, we’ve had the conversation, I think I’ve had conversation with both you guys about that particular situation we had went to sell it and then two days was coming down and market was, at the point when we were selling it was beginning of March, we just have that huge run with February, I had sold it at a premium price off market was gonna make a good amount on it wasn’t really upset about it a day before we closed, he put a lien for basically the full price of the contract that I have already paid him 50% for. And so that kibosh the deal. And for the next kind of three months, I proceeded to hold the property while the market was falling God. And we did some legal manoeuvres to be able to sell the property. And then luckily, the same buyer was still interested in buying it. And I said, I’m only selling it to you if we’re selling it for the same price. And they said that’s not a problem. So I lost a little bit in the holding costs. And then they got a realtor involved to make sure that they were secured. So I lost more than I would have gained if I had sold it back in February. But all in all, it wasn’t a loss.

 

Erwin  

Well, how would you rate your stress on

 

Joseph  

this deal? Oh, very high. Very, very, very high. I think for about three to four? No, probably since October from August to April of this year. I don’t think I slept very well down. Yeah, that was a long time. I’m doing I’m doing a lot better now. But so that’s all it matters.

 

Erwin  

And how far was it the drive?

 

Joseph  

Average out four hours, four hours each way? Okay. Depends on how you drive really like three. But if you stop for lunch and stuff like that three each way. Oh, mine the drive. I think there’s there’s a lot of young people here. But if you have kids, and you’re doing this, but I think there’s a lot of young people who don’t have a lot that they’ve saved up where their time is not worth as much. And that drive may be worth it for them to go out and buy a cash flowing asset. Because they may not be able to afford anything in the GTA and I think that’s fine. I just think you need to approach certain areas with certain strategies, you

 

Erwin  

can just partner with you. They don’t have to do everything themselves. That’s fair. Yeah. This this whole thing, like people like opposed to partnering, because I’m like, I’ve told I’ve told him to the family, you know, before the pandemic, for example, I was like, I have like cousins, so their brothers and like, you know, you too can buy like a 4000 square foot house for like under 3 million, versus you’re both gonna go spend about 1.5 and have way less square footage.

 

Joseph  

I think a lot of people like the pride of ownership, especially something is just there’s

 

Erwin  

I have a small ego some days. Money has been cheap. Yeah, I have no limit.

 

Joseph  

I would agree with that.

 

Erwin  

So it’s actually been it’s been in the news lately. Really? How bad friends are for example, Well, that’s why the only way for an average Canadian to afford rent is to share two bedroom with somebody. Yeah, for sure two bedroom apartment someone so I don’t know understand to me there’s no difference why two people when co venture on a property, right for me, I’d rather co venture with someone and buying like Hamilton an hour away versus four hours away. Right? And then I can divide the work down the middle. It doesn’t have to be Hamilton, it can be Oshawa, it can be Barry, whatever, right? My point is, I don’t wanna drive over an hour. And again, if I partner with someone, we can split up the work, you do the maintenance, I’ll deal with the tenant type stuff. You know, I mean, that kind of division. We don’t see that among our clients. You’re typically married couples, where one partner deals with a tenant that one deals with the tools and the maintenance. Right. So I don’t see why two people who aren’t married can’t do that.

 

Joseph  

I would agree. I don’t have anything to add to that. I think you’ve said it. Well,

 

Erwin  

wow. time you see something you

 

Tammy  

JV with Joe? No, it’s true, though. It’s it? No, it is good. It is good JV with Joe

 

Joseph  

coined a new term. To get

 

Tammy  

into the market, though there is a lot of people or maybe that you’re established or maybe some people can get on title. Some people can’t like it is a good good way to get in the market for a lot of people. No 101 was a JV as well.

 

Erwin  

And we have clients like just buddies who got together and bought a house

 

Tammy  

and mobile JV later, I mean, but what’s wrong with JV in first two, right? Yeah,

 

Erwin  

as long as our hard working people, like your hard working folks and hard working people,

 

Joseph  

I think it also comes down to what is both parties bring to the table, and like sometimes just the typical money, right, like the money partner and the working partner or the active partner, that relationship works, but sometimes you also need like, it depends on the size of the deal and the type of deal, like to active partners can be just as beneficial. But yeah, I see no issues with partnering. I’m actively kind of bringing on partners and looking for partners and and speaking with people about partnerships all the time. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

So the separate properties having a headache.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, your first one went well, the second one didn’t go so well. Okay, and you’re keeping the first one. It’s I’m keeping it there for now. A cash flow is fine. I don’t have any headaches. I haven’t driven there in six months.

 

Erwin  

Is it still there?

 

Joseph  

It’s it’s yes, it’s still there. So it’s just if I ever need to liquidate something, it’ll likely be the first one that goes.

 

Erwin  

So this is February 2022. Would you would you liquidate it, or do you keep it

 

Joseph  

if I knew what the market would have done right now? Yeah, I probably would have liquidated I kind of I sold in February not because the market was at a high I’d like to say that I like had enough foresight to say Oh, now’s a great time to sell. The reality is I was just fed up with property and I sold and I just got lucky enough that I sold when the market was at a high I’m surprised the

 

Erwin  

buyer took it still.

 

Joseph  

I will not comment I don’t know who’s listening. Yes. 17 people I know who includes that.

 

Erwin  

Give me your name is not that Google because there’s there’s enough stanzas out there that that makes you heartless

 

Joseph  

that a compliment or is that

 

Erwin  

just have names like You’re like I say I met you in like a thing. Like when I go to LinkedIn like Joe Costanza, like, damn, there’s like 40 of you in Toronto. Like, which one that I talked to? Like that. So your current deal wasn’t the easiest. But that’s a good point. There’s a good story to that is not easy deals are often the best deals. We might bless the last ugly house I bought mouldy basement contractors wouldn’t go in because there’s cockroaches. Right? I asbestos knob and two, I can I’m just shocked the bank lent me money on it.

 

Joseph  

Well, you did bank finance loan on that. I gotta

 

Erwin  

be lender. The lender called me the day before closings. Like did you know you have asbestos? Did you know you have knob and tube wiring? Right? Yeah, I did this for a living. I can’t believe I still got my mortgage. Because most lenders will not touch that stuff. Really? I didn’t know that. My basement was leaking.

 

Joseph  

Well, yes, I was in that basement. I know. Yes. I did the drawings for you on that on that deal.

 

Erwin  

Wait, did your mother say something about that house?

 

Joseph  

My mother? Well, yes.

 

Tammy  

She was faith in her when? Yeah.

 

Joseph  

Because I think I FaceTimed her while I was in the basement with an stupid made no mask on black mould on the wall.

 

Erwin  

Just work really.

 

Joseph  

They painted over it. It was pretty bad. It was pretty good. Yeah, it was pretty bad. I probably shouldn’t have been down there. But I was down there anyway. I’ll find her in 20 years.

 

Erwin  

But it wasn’t pretty was it? No, it was not pretty. Your mom would never invest in it.

 

Joseph  

Ah Uh, maybe now, but not then. She’s come around. She’s

 

Tammy  

coming around John’s place. I think

 

Joseph  

she’s I really pushed your boundaries. Yes.

 

Erwin  

But yeah, I had to deal with a lot of crap as a student rental too. So the deal with that student rental through the pandemic tends bail. Right. I think too much five to seven times bailed. Students. Yeah, yeah. Now it’s all turned around. Because I’m finding out that rents are now six $700 a room?

 

Joseph  

Yeah. Well, yeah. That’s it’s a it’s also a killer area like you are right beside this.

 

Erwin  

Yeah. But it wasn’t easy. No, it was easy holding this whole time. But I paid 400 grand for it. Now. I’ll be in humongous demand come next rental cycle. Right. Yeah. Because I hear like, even made the news. How little rental supply there is for students. Right. So payback time. But yeah, hard houses are not easy to finance. You didn’t want to go in the basement. Your mother would probably not want to go to my basement if she knew. I think I took my deal over yours, though, because I didn’t have a tenant.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, I would have taken your deal over mine to the I think mine was a little bit of a headache. Yeah, from day

 

Tammy  

one. Irwin tried to buy it off of you. Half a

 

Joseph  

dozen $5,000. So a big commitment

 

Erwin  

to excuse me, came down when I heard there was issues that the tenant,

 

Tammy  

no, no, this was that was a score. We just for the record, we do call it John’s place. So if anyone’s hears this, or if you go on Joe’s Instagram, it’s John’s Thomas the tenant. Okay, so what have we

 

Joseph  

purchased the property back in? November is when we closed or when we when we offered on it. We’ve got an accepted offer. We’re supposed to close in January, November 2020 2021. We’re supposed to close who you’re supposed to close in January. And they were kind of going through

 

Erwin  

Washington will bring us back a little bit. Okay. The host previously failed to sell that or not. Okay, so

 

Joseph  

I had found this property listed on the MLS back in November of 2020. I went to go see it. I offered off market on it, when they taken it off their offer Express and that fell through. And then every kind of two or three months. Why did it feel to sell the market was on fire? They were they were trying to sell it for 850. Back when it was probably worth like 600

 

Erwin  

or 600. It was that bad? Well, it was

 

Joseph  

duplexes at the time, were selling for around 800. So they were trying to sell it as a legal duplex, which it was at 800. The problem is it needed 200 to 300 Depending on how much rental you wanted 200 to 300 of work. So no one’s gonna buy it for 800 or whatever they listed it I think it listed initially at like 850 At some point at one point. So I’d offered on it. Even when they’re asking when their offer fell through at 800 or whatever when they’re listing fell through at 800 I offered some really probably insulting offer at like 600 or 650. Obviously, that got the client and they ended up selling it back in or they ended up getting an accepted offer on it at 750 Back in a must have been mid mid 2021

 

Erwin  

Sorry, except to that how much at 750. And they didn’t take it and run this sale

 

Joseph  

fell through. So I was checking in on this property probably every two months I would call the realtor at some point I ended up getting the owner’s number and I was calling either the realtor or the owner like every two months, just like what’s going on with your house are you guys selling and then for a little while I kind of went off market and I thought okay, so they they told me that it sold it must have closed and now it’s done. So I didn’t really think anything up but then I drive past the property every time it was a shitshow so I really wanted to see what they were doing with it just out of pure curiosity and the roof was absolutely mangled. And no one had done anything about the roof and this is like six months so it’s stuff growing on or whatever it was no like there was little holes in the roof. There’s holes in the roof when they when we ripped up the the ashphalt Yeah, there was like holes. I got pictures I’ll show you after there was like, very large loads, like, like soccer ball size holes in the like in the sheeting.

 

Erwin  

Oh my god. Yeah, you’re gonna need 50 for that. I know. A lot banks when finance that there’s pressure finds that

 

Joseph  

nobody found it. It was anyway, so yeah, so then I think I had reached out to them at one point because I’m like, Okay, this thing definitely has not sold yet. And this is must have been like October of 2021. And I got into kind of a little bit of a yelling match with the with the realtor. At which point I was like, Okay, I’m just getting a Tammy involves and no,

 

Tammy  

I’m gonna stop here and tell you what happened. Okay, you tried to do the deal without me. Just fine. Okay. You tried to do it? Yeah. But there was no what happened? was they were going to use one of their other realtors to represent you because they didn’t want the selling agent to represent both of you. So they said, I’ll bring in a realtor and you said, no, no, no, I have a realtor. I was only going this way if I was gonna get a deal, and No, you weren’t gonna have a Realtor you don’t know probably right. Yes. So you’re like, No, no, I’m gonna bring in my own realtor. So then I call him like, oh, so yeah, he kind of talked with Joe. And they’re like, yes. And that’s where we went. That’s how I came in. Yeah.

 

Joseph  

And then, as you call me, yeah. It wasn’t on market. So I figured I’m gonna try for a market sale. And they were actually just about to list it. They were just finalising some paperwork to get him out with a tenant tenant. And he was so close to being out. It was so yeah, it was really close to being out.

 

Erwin  

This was an unethical thing. He wasn’t when he got terrible tenant,

 

Joseph  

he did not take care of the place. I think the owner of the property didn’t take care of the place either. So between the two of them nothing was getting done

 

Tammy  

very very I mean, just that when the land when we found out the landlord tenant Board gave him a warning that if you do any of these the list of items, you’re gone and it’s instant, and it was smoking in the property smoking on the property, obviously not paying rent it refusing the seller, the owner landlord to come to its own property. And swearing at people on the like, there was a massive list that he couldn’t even like look sideways. Yeah, I think

 

Erwin  

the yellow people on his lawn you don’t get up? Yeah.

 

Joseph  

Well, no, it’s not yellow people on his lawn. It was yellow people who are trying to get into the property to view the property.

 

Tammy  

Not to mention it a bat by the door. Yeah.

 

Joseph  

Anyway, so.

 

Tammy  

So we did agree on bacon possession? Yes. Well, it’s too close in January.

 

Joseph  

We’re supposed to close in January. He didn’t. He didn’t leave. They extended the the court hearing date to

 

Erwin  

did he

 

Tammy  

agreed to leave? Did he not even agree, but he was supposed to leave a certain date because he instantly screwed up off the list, obviously. And

 

Joseph  

the court had said, you’re out by January 6, January 7, so

 

Erwin  

we slipped up. So now they have an order, you have to leave.

 

Tammy  

And we found one judge that said, Okay, we’ll hear you out again, we’re going to extend it. And so we extended our

 

Joseph  

and then yeah, so then the closing date, the closing date got extended to right after their next hearing, because we were like, Oh, for sure. He’s gonna get kicked out and already been kicked out before. Like, he’s already broken all the rules that he said he wasn’t gonna break and he’s not paying his rent. So I mean, like, add all that together. They gotta, they gotta let them they gotta let him go. The court hearing finishes, they’re like, Okay, we’re gonna issue the paperwork for you to leave. We’ll just find that we’re gonna find a date that works for us, and we’ll get back to you. So I go, okay, February, I’m counting 60 days is what they give you. Like most of

 

Erwin  

paralegal involved, too. Yeah, there’s legal. There’s been done on the

 

Joseph  

on both sides. Yeah. And so I’m like, we’re talking, I’m like, Okay, well, 60 days from the date that he’s supposed to close. Okay, let’s push the closing date. 60 days out, they have the according to the LT landlord tenant boards website, maybe I’m wrong, but they need to find hearing a decision in 60 days. So let’s go 60 days. So 60 days comes in passes. And we’re supposed to close on the property. And he’s still there. And word from nobody’s told us anything, which, you know, I didn’t expect anyone to tell us anything, because we are not are not the owners. But still, like, I would like to know kind of what’s going on with the process, couldn’t get in touch with anyone’s lawyer to figure out what was going on with the process. No one wants to get involved. Closing Date comes again, closing it comes again. And so we had a conversation, we wanted to extend again, and we had a conversation with the seller who like if you’re not going to sell on, if you’re not going to close on this place with the guy in there, then we’re just cancelled, we’re off of the deal. And we’re just going to sell another property.

 

Erwin  

So another property of theirs.

 

Tammy  

They needed to Yeah, they needed something. Yeah. And this was the one they were going to sell. And since it obviously was kept, you know, in for a long, longer, longer, longer. They finally said no, either you’re gonna have to take it with them or the deal is dead, because according to our offer, it allowed us to extend, extend, extend, and then somebody extends extensions. And then, you know, that was at yet agree. And they said, No, that’s enough. So he had to come up to the second possession. Yeah, big concession. Exactly. So he had to make a decision.

 

Joseph  

I mean, I had to make the decision at the time. And the reality was when we close on the property, we had it under contract for 745. And it was probably worth in the nines, really low nines. Well, you

 

Tammy  

have to figure at this point, the markets going up and up and they know that too, right?

 

Erwin  

Oh, sorry. What did you get accepted for?

 

Joseph  

We got to sell it for 745. Okay, legal duplex Sorry,

 

Tammy  

sorry, but it’s worth noting that that was October November 2021. Things are selling for like a million now. We’re into the early 2022 and everything selling for exactly

 

Joseph  

yeah, like that. That property just as it was with the shitshow that it was probably should have sold for around 900 When we bought

 

Tammy  

and sold it with that tenant made money because the market was going nuts. Do you remember that a soccer ball size holes in the roof? You can see that you could? Well, it was Yeah, from the street. We had a home inspection. Yeah, like we

 

Joseph  

knew what we were we were on the roof that had the holes in it. On the roof, just in step in the halls. So Joe ticket, yes. So I decided that we were going to close on close with him in it. And then the next day, and then the potential cut bait decided to fish. Yes, exactly. And then proceed to the next three months of me dealing with the landlord tenant board trying to get him out. And still landlord 10 board had not given us an issue had not given us a date. And so 120 days pass, and they finally give us a date. That’s a month from then by that point I had already signed with him and then 11 saying where I needed to start construction at some point the market was kind of doing the dip, and I needed to figure out okay, what are we doing with this place? Yes. So we did a little bit of cash for keys with the property to get them out. And then we started renovations in July.

 

Tammy  

So Joe did, did we try

 

Joseph  

catch Ricky’s earlier? No, nobody tried to catch it wasn’t it wasn’t I was waiting. I’m like, okay,

 

Erwin  

16 on the place.

 

Joseph  

I offered. I was like, Hey, listen, we’ll like we’ll, we’ll pay a little bit more if they do Cash for Keys. I got no problem. They’re like, No, no, no, we’re already in the legal process. We shouldn’t we should have them out soon. Obviously, closing day comes, he’s not out.

 

Tammy  

So even you took ownership on closing date, if Joe’s automatically offering Cash for Keys, except the landlord tenant board, again, was still so close to happening and felt like any day.

 

Joseph  

Every time I call them. They know any day now we’re gonna get a notice. And then two months go by I’m like, I can’t wait anymore. This is too much.

 

Tammy  

He did the sign the papers did the Cash for Keys. Everyone’s agreeing. He’s ready. That day comes and guess what the notice comes in that Oh, yeah. He’s he’s got to move out.

 

Joseph  

The day before he was supposed to move out. They gave me a notice saying he needs to move out. And it gave the day in two days. I’m like, I’m sorry. Yeah. saved you. $5,000. But

 

Erwin  

whatever. And how much in rent arrears did you have?

 

Joseph  

How much of what your rent rent? Did? You actually paid rent every single month, every single since I took over? He paid rent every month to me. So just give him

 

Erwin  

his money back? Basically.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, so it didn’t really cost us anything. But it costs us time, which in some respects may actually be more valuable.

 

Erwin  

So I haven’t heard how things are going now. So that was when when was that? What was the Cash for Keys? When did he move out? July? July 1. Oh, just last month?

 

Tammy  

It’s almost been Yeah. Almost a month. It’s

 

Joseph  

been it’s almost been two months of renovations. Yeah. Six weeks? Yeah. How’s it going? It’s going well, it’s gone. Well, the permits sorry, this

 

Erwin  

isn’t a problem. Number five properties you have now five? Yeah,

 

Joseph  

that’s four in Hamilton, four and Hamilton. Right now.

 

Erwin  

Those are the ones that are 20 years old.

 

Joseph  

Yes, 2828 still feels like I’m moving slow, can

 

Erwin  

turn on the social media. Go talk to your friends and find out how much they’re worth how many houses they

 

Joseph  

have. That’s not the point. That’s the expectations that I put on myself. Okay. Sure. Anyway, the renovation is going well.

 

Erwin  

But we wasn’t renovation plan. What are you doing so

 

Joseph  

initially, so for the listeners, it’s a one and a half storey house with a back split attached in the rear with a 400 square foot garage. So there’s about massive there’s about 3500 square feet of living space combined.

 

Erwin  

Oh my god, it’s

 

Joseph  

huge. It’s pretty large. Like the back unit is about, like 1500 and the front one and a half story is probably about maybe it was probably less than 3500 Sorry, it’s more like it’s more like 3000 It’s a probably another 1500 for the front’s we bring into my house. Garage. And then yeah, and then and then the garage as well.

 

Tammy  

So the front back duplex, not very typical up and down.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, it’s a front back duplex. The first the front unit is basically like your typical one and a half storey house like that typical kind of like century home kind of

 

Tammy  

main floor upstairs and still has the basement as well that

 

Joseph  

and then the back is kind of like a like a back split it’s basically it’s designed very similar to the back split there’s a basement to that back unit as well as kind of a second floor and then like a half level Okay,

 

Erwin  

so when you take possession once the way if you took possession tenants out, what would you rent this place out for? As is so you didn’t lift a finger?

 

Joseph  

Oh god. Oh, no, I wouldn’t

 

Erwin  

tend to take

 

Joseph  

they they took real advantage of this place. There was holes in walls. There was yeah, this

 

Erwin  

is bad. You don’t think okay, money compensates for everything. Someone would take it for like $300 a month.

 

Joseph  

Okay, well, we’re like, basically don’t consider that. Anything under 1000. Just entertain me. Okay,

 

Erwin  

what would the what the one and a half story ran for was the back split run for?

 

Joseph  

What would the one and a half so the garage you can rent? Right now currently there’s tenants in the back unit. They’re paying 1800 Plus utilities. You filled it? No, there were already they were already there. Oh, and 1800 plus future? Fully tenant. No, they did not get along with Okay,

 

Erwin  

so that’s probably probably the reason for the order as well. Yes. Okay.

 

Joseph  

But that that back

 

Erwin  

unit, that’s really good rent 1800.

 

Joseph  

It’s not when you consider what it could rent for I know. It could probably rent for around 20 to 2300. And that, and they’re not, they’re also using the garage, which I could probably rent for an extra 200. So they’re about six to 700. under market value. We’re keeping them because like you said, 800 1800 is not that bad. Right? The reality is, I lose about $700 of cash flow every month from potential cash, cash for that we’re not we’re not doing anything to earn.

 

Erwin  

One and a half storey rented out, as is John’s place. How much food costs that you could have gotten 1800 For just cleaning it up?

 

Joseph  

Maybe 1800 Probably for that front unit if we want it to occur.

 

Tammy  

That’s not bad. Because it is a full house. If it’s cleaned up. It’s basically full house. I

 

Joseph  

mean, full houses in Hamilton are renting for like 3000. Right. Okay, what’s the plan? So the initial plan was finished the basement and finished the main unit.

 

Tammy  

Can I just say Joe’s initial plan was an initial plan. Remember, you were all over the place? Emotional, legal basement Hold on, or Airbnb, maybe? Well, you’re right, we had

 

Joseph  

a submariner dealing with this, I was the SA there was all everything simultaneously. The initial plan was to renovate to fix to the basement, then do the main floor of the everything on the first house, the basement of the first of the main house in the front, and then do a full kind of cosmetic gut of the front unit. First and second floor.

 

Erwin  

We’re going to turn that into a duplex. We’re

 

Joseph  

essentially doing a legal triplex on the mountain.

 

Erwin  

Do we need to edit this out? Yes.

 

Joseph  

Sorry, sorry, we’re gonna do it all legal. But

 

Tammy  

otherwise, he was gonna do like proper, proper everything, everything’s gonna do stuff. But yeah, like underpin it to where we’re

 

Joseph  

going to lower the floor and everything saying, this is the thing is my my perspective is, I don’t want to ever have a rental, what I wouldn’t live in. That’s my golden rule for me. So if I wouldn’t live in it, I don’t want anyone else living it. I know, that’s probably not the best, like investment advice, because you can make money on things that you wouldn’t live in. And you can make really good money doing that.

 

Erwin  

Well, this is a state. This is clarify, though, when I was 22 years, I’d much different standards than I do now. So I sometimes I’ll speak to the 22 year old would you live here.

 

Joseph  

But still, so it was it’s a six foot five basement, and I wanted to drop it down to seven. And I don’t have the numbers on me. But like I rationalised that somehow at some point. And it kind of made sense in my head. The numbers, numbers got a little out of hand at some point, which is partially the reason we’re not doing it right now. So you didn’t actually do it. We’re so we’re not doing the basement anymore. And the reason we’re not doing the basement is with the market the way it is, I want the renovation to go quickly. I want to be in and out of this place. I don’t want like if we had the same market that we had back last year where everything was just moving. Yeah, sure, I just do the basement because the reality is from going to hold it with the appreciation that we are seeing in the market last year. Even if renovation goes slightly over budget, the market is gonna save me I know that’s horrible advice. But that’s the reality for a lot of investors last year or the even in 2020 the market save them for a lot of things, the market wasn’t really in our favour here. So the plan was be in and out of this property and get our money back. And then we will look at doing those renovations later down the line. As long as it’s stabilised and cash flows and it covers all expenses then in the future we can look to kind of increase our position and the property and that’s kind of it we knew buying the property that it would be an evolving kind of property as itself you don’t need to do all all the work phase one in phases every year or probably in like two years we’ll do that back unit kind of slowly kind of do what we need to do. We also found out that we actually can’t do the basement until that back units on because there’s some electrical wiring that needs to get redone in that place to run more power to the basement. So the reality is we would have to do the whole house if we were doing the basement so it just financially didn’t make sense. So we just settled for just doing a cosmetic on the main floor, which came out to be about 100,000 When everything included that the

 

Tammy  

front main and upper main and upstairs Yeah,

 

Erwin  

so basically like cosmetic.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, that’s just cool. I’m well we did we opened up structural wall we did a little bit more than just cosmetic.

 

Tammy  

So I needed a lot higher standards than I do. Yeah. shows live in there. But

 

Joseph  

very small when we’re in there without the wall. Yeah, no, you haven’t seen it with the wall

 

Tammy  

guy. I know we’re gonna come you know what everyone we should go by

 

Erwin  

go yeah, we’ll check it out. For me as it progresses in the market with historically high rents. I don’t need to do too much.

 

Tammy  

Well, we should do in the day two and get it approved with the tenants for a visit just so we can see that back unit because it’s really unique how it circles around and the space involved. It’d be nice to see the whole thing not just the front.

 

Joseph  

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she’s sure she’s going. You let me know when

 

Tammy  

it’s John’s place. Remember John’s places?

 

Erwin  

So what’s the rent gonna be on this place? So you spent 100 grand spent 100 grand

 

Joseph  

the rents right now I’m projecting you can correct me if I’m if my numbers are wrong, but I’m projecting around 2600 to 2700 for that, just for that front unit, because it’s basically the full house.

 

Tammy  

You’re gonna be good there at least. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

Yeah, we’re seeing we’re seeing like whole semis go for like 32 Yeah, you’re

 

Tammy  

gonna get probably close to the three could be could be three just because

 

Joseph  

I did my numbers. I’m very conservative with my numbers. I do all my numbers. I’m 20. Never guess right? I did all my numbers at 2500. So anything more than 2500 is gravy for me.

 

Tammy  

My my I my rental is a one and a half story as well. I have four bedrooms, two bathrooms, and I put tenants in last year getting 25 Friends gone up. So yeah, you’re definitely going to be at least at the numbers you just said at minimum. So I do like to run my numbers conservatively too. But when the time comes to actually rent it. Yeah, check in again. Breathing

 

Erwin  

stretch. 3000. Stretch, stretch. Over 3000 My friend Christians successful guys message me here. You put up you stretched his one bedroom? Yeah. 2200 for a one bedroom

 

Joseph  

probably get free with the garage. Garage. I think not

 

Tammy  

even and you know what else? You’ve done a lot of landscaping outside which I noticed which is huge to me. You did or your mom’s?

 

Joseph  

Mom, I like to I like to put a little I like, no, no. I like to put a little spin on every property that I I like to put a little bit of work into everything that I own that within reason.

 

Erwin  

I throw a bunch. Yeah, I

 

Joseph  

don’t think it’s the best financial advice for anyone like investment advice, but like, I do a little bit of myself.

 

Erwin  

I tried to kill the vegetation on my other property.

 

Joseph  

It looks great. I think it looks good, right? Yeah, it does. I killed all the vegetation on my other places through the art, this will probably all died as well. But

 

Erwin  

apologies the listener this sounds very dramatic. How does this compare to your other three other properties in Hamilton, or any of this this dramatic?

 

Joseph  

No, no, they

 

Erwin  

were all pretty straightforward, pretty boring duplexes. Yeah, I know that didn’t feel boring to you at the time, because I know you were sleeping in them and renovating and resolve. So I know it feels tough. But looking back at that compared to what you’re doing now,

 

Joseph  

I would not I wouldn’t 100% would not have been able to do what I was doing now, dealing with the stress associated with it. I did definitely grow through the process. And I think I mean, like my purchases have gotten gone from like, basically doing no renovations to a little bit of renovations to a full gut to now dealing with

 

Erwin  

the first property. You did a whole basement suite. Not really, really it was

 

Joseph  

already partially done. Okay. Right. And then the second one, the basement was already done, but the upstairs needed a full guide. Yeah. And then the third one, okay. The whole place needed a full gut. That would have been your more more work one. Yeah. That was the that was the biggest shock was doing the third one. Yeah. And then the fourth one was just like property. Yeah, John’s place was just like doing the tenants and then dealing with all the other crap and then doing a full guide then let’s

 

Tammy  

just add that the third property with all the surprises and the extra work you needed to do and all the gut but then when we got a foreign though, what you refight for he was like, it was worth it. Oh, yes. Different. It’s very worth it.

 

Erwin  

So what would you say the beginner so for example, I see a lot of courses out there teach to go after your John’s house. Basically, they teach that look for the off market. Look for the complete disaster soccer ball size holes in the roof. The Vanquish in my mind, when you think a beginner should take something on tape or something like that on?

 

Joseph  

I think you need a baby step your way. You can’t like at some point you need to jump in. But I think you need to kind of take your time to get to a certain point. And not necessarily sure if that because I can tell you from my experience, if I took on John’s place when I first started, I probably would have been turned off from the whole process.

 

Erwin  

It shouldn’t be 5k It would have I

 

Joseph  

could have made 5k. So I’d say no, I think like you need to kind of build up and get I mean, I usually wouldn’t recommend a turnkey property per se. But I think like even if you want us to do that turnkey route would be a good way to kind of get your feet wet with that in terms of buying a property that needs a little bit work, maybe find something that needs a small cosmetic workup rather than a full, a full gut. Right? I think of the comfort level, at the end of the day,

 

Erwin  

I think of a scuba diving analogy, when you scuba dive as a beginner to go to take any advanced course, they only allow you to do one at a time. So for example, you see you’re a recreational scuba diver. Now you want to do what’s called penetration, you’re gonna go and you’re an enter a wreck, right? You can enter a wreck, what you cannot do is do that at night, because Nate is a different advanced level diver. So you can only do one thing at a time. So take real estate investment properties. Dealing with tenants is one skill set risk factor. Yeah, dealing with renovations and contractors, another risk factor, dealing with a major renovation, where you need permits, and you have mould and knob and tube wiring, asbestos, another level, right? Dealing with the LTB situation, another level. So I think to each their own, they have to decide what level of risk you want to do whatever stage in life and you are on a stage investor, you are just imagining, like, I know that this was stressful for you and your family.

 

Joseph  

Yes, for sure.

 

Tammy  

You know, and I just want to add that I agree to that. I do think it’s, it’s nice. And it’s that nice the steps that you took building that up, and it’s nice for people, but we also have a lot of new investors that come to us wanting to do, let’s say, a duplex conversion. And that’s a really big project as well. So

 

Erwin  

that’s a vanilla one vacant house, good bones,

 

Tammy  

you know, and all kinds of, we’ve seen all kinds of things that can come up and so on. And everyone’s a little different on how they roll with stuff. But again, going back to trying to have that good team around you. And I don’t just mean me, and I don’t just mean you know, that all does make a really big difference. Because new investors, if you’re just gonna start out Yeah, it is nice to have that smaller project first, but at the same time, it’s not so scary when you have a bigger one if you have the right team to so it really kind of depends on what you’ve, you know, surround yourself with and, and how you deal with things. And we all learn that from each other. Like I always talk about James on our team, he can have things off his back, and I’m like, nope, oh, my goodness, I’m not sleeping, I can’t can’t eat it. You know, we’re all a little different, how we handle it, but trying to learn from each other and doing the best. We actually

 

Erwin  

had John’s house and you had your surgery team. Yeah. You want to wash your shirt.

 

Joseph  

But I think I think taking steps is not a bad thing. And I think I’m more took them out of necessity. I didn’t have the money. When I started to get into something that needed a full guide. At least I didn’t know how to find the money. All the money. Yes. Well, I wasn’t doing all myself. But yeah, I did a lot of it myself.

 

Erwin  

The stuff you didn’t need a licence for Yes. To do an electrical. Probably the tiling drywall.

 

Joseph  

I did. Yeah. And but like I did it more because I felt I was we were looking for those properties more because I couldn’t afford a profit entity to forgot. And I didn’t know at the time, I was too inexperienced to know that I could just go and find the money or borrow the money to do this work. Right. So I’m just looking at how much money do I have? What’s the renovation that needs to get done? Like I remember when we bought red Street, the first property that I own, like, coming to closing I was like, I actually don’t even have enough money to close on this place. Considering all the closing costs.

 

Tammy  

Is that the when you call me you’re like, I have to call my No No. Money is the one yes, that is. But then you you worked

 

Erwin  

out the neural comes through.

 

Joseph  

And then that did come on? Yeah, see? Yeah. So I think taking those steps were necessary for me because at the time learning through that experience and learning through kind of, like how to find money, how to borrow money, like I we bought the property, I didn’t even have the money to do the renovation. I was like, I’m just gonna rent it out. And we’ll deal with it at that point. And then the bank was like, Hey, do you want a $50,000 loan? I was like, Yeah, I’ll do that. Like that. Yeah, sure. And then we did that, like I was. So last minute, I was just like, I guess I’m doing the renovation now. It was just like, and then the rest is history. From there

 

Erwin  

funny how anything how things worked out. But you had all the answers from the beginning. When we met you when you were 24.

 

Joseph  

I think it was good for me though to not have the answers. Because it for no one he has all the answer. No, I know. But I’m saying what I’m saying is like

 

Erwin  

if a kid you’ll find out how many answers you do not have.

 

Joseph  

Try not postpone that right now. Not in I got too much Bill introduced filter for that stage of life.

 

Erwin  

You’ll be grateful when when you have your portfolio and then you have kids and you don’t have to worry about this stuff. Imagine having kids and then trying to build a portfolio. Yeah,

 

Tammy  

that’s crazy. I’ll never forget when when Joe and I first met and when we got the first property, and you were nervous, of course as you should be right and it’s I get it and and I remember saying to you, you’re 24 years old and saying, Do you know like we were closing your eyes? Oh my god, I can’t believe I can’t believe it. And I said Do you know how many people say I wish I started when I was 24 And you did it. You did that. You absolutely did that like this just so on

 

Erwin  

the record is our youngest Korean. I don’t really I Yeah, well, you do. Who’s you bumped up?

 

Joseph  

But whose wasn’t there somebody after me?

 

Tammy  

Well, somebody met Joe. I think they were 23. I was like, no. You’re waiting? No. They’re you know what they’re like most people, including myself who want to and talk about it and think about it, don’t do it. You did it.

 

Erwin  

There’s huge. Yeah.

 

Joseph  

I just do things and think about consequences later. I think that’s

 

Tammy  

gonna make some calls. No, getting. You did good. You did very well. Good for you.

 

Erwin  

Especially where we’re talking about rents and stuff. What are we seeing in the market for rents? Rents are our showings, up down? We’re in the middle of August. Yeah, I

 

Tammy  

was able to book this morning, went out with a client to see some houses had my pickings of 12 that I thought could possibly work, how to narrow down a little bit, we went to go see six houses this morning, very focused on one lot. It was yeah, it was an experienced investor, we were able to soak it all in. And we were able to narrow down the properties that also meet all the criteria for a garden suite. And that was just Hamilton. So it was great. So we got got to see quite a few and go from there.

 

Erwin  

I was like, compared to like, six months ago, oh, six months ago, they

 

Tammy  

would call I would even like go there’s one or two if you want, and I don’t think one’s really going to work. But we could show you

 

Joseph  

finding that a lot of people are now starting their search. I’m still people holding back a

 

Tammy  

lot of people holding back, but I am hearing a few people more calling me saying you know, Okay, we’re ready. Now we’re ready to get back in which is smart. Because right now is a really good time. You know, August 2022. Right? That’s right now is good time. I had a client yesterday, I called her up. I said, Hey, I just noticed this change on the listing we saw a month ago. And she’s like, let’s do it. weoffer done, you know, and we were able to get in and get it for a great price paid for 75. And well in for property recently. And but yeah, so we’re noticing that it’s a really good opportunity. We’re noticing a lot more, there’s certainly a lot more choices on the market, a lot less competition, a lot of houses sitting 3060 days, houses that are sitting there more ready to sell. So the house for example that we picked up yesterday was 525. We offered for 75. They had a couple other offers fell through so we went in firm they loved it took our price. So that’s what we’re seeing those kinds of changes. That because these houses check off boxes for us to check off, but this one in particular is already a duplex and welland on a 60 by 120 lot that houses all the way to the left, we’re looking into severance possibilities and the land and if not, we have a double car garage that we’re gonna turn to a garden suite, massive growth opportunity

 

Erwin  

for five. Okay, how much would have costed six months ago?

 

Tammy  

Well, it was listed six has been listed for a long time I’ve had my eyes on it, it was listed originally about 650. for probably about that long ago, I saw it go down to six. That’s when we saw it held off for a bit because I had a low paying tenant. I noticed the other day, I’m like, I just read that that tenants moving out. So that’s why we jumped on it because now it’s fully vacant and paid for 75 and went all the way up as key. That’s it exactly. Same as you

 

Erwin  

know, an argue that selling vacant is key as well as the seller if you want maximum money. Well, yeah.

 

Joseph  

But as a buyer, like the follow up, like if you’re, if you’re not following up with properties that like Why have you been surprised we’ve done it like all the time, I got my first deal the same way. The fourth deal the same, we’re just following up just be like, Hey, what did you guys sell? Would you guys sell for? All right? If they have sold and you don’t get it? And that’s fine. But like what did you guys sell for? Because I want to know, like, you know what, we have my own knowledge. So I’m going into next one, I can actually put a competitive offering. And we really

 

Tammy  

play the market because Joe and I have obviously been working together for years now. But in the market where houses were selling crazy prices were up the house that you’re talking about that you picked up was because I would talk to him about expired listings, I saw properties that are expired or sell properties that are cancelled, and so on. And these might be some opportunities down the road that we can take a look at that we’re not seeing so much in this market, because they’re actually on the market sitting that home. But before when that, you know, isn’t the case. And the only reason that house didn’t sell the way it did was because of that tenant. So another kudos for you saying listen, let’s let’s push let’s push the envelope here and then we’ll jump in and we’ll take it and take that risk a little bit

 

Joseph  

like even after like right now like we’re after this we’re gonna go see something of a showing we do we have showing and we’re gonna go look not because I don’t want to buy it at the at the price that the house is at right now. I don’t want to buy it. I don’t want to buy it at the price the house is now but yeah, it’s been sitting for 60 days. Yeah, so if they do a price reduction, I want to I want to be the first one that seen it already. So that if I want if I want to put an offer in already, and they say they dropped they go from 800 to 700. I’m just throwing ballpark numbers out there. I want to be the first one to put an offer firm at 700 Because I know I can buy it for 700 and I can do what I need to do for 700 Because I’ve already seen the place yeah So that’s, that’s the

 

Tammy  

most important part. I keep telling you, you got to get out. You got to see him. You got to see them. You got to see them. Because then once you have when an opportunity comes, you’re ready.

 

Joseph  

Yeah. I’m kind of at a waiting stage just kind of seeing what I’m doing. I’m pretty liquid right now. Just kind of waiting into nice. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

So you know, this conversation before? We’re 24 year old think about 20 year old you put so forget everything you think about you think about a 24 year old you would think Auntie so? So let me let me push that further. 24 year old you mean 20 year old you? You don’t know. 28 year old you’ve never met before? complete stranger you meet at a networking networking line? What would you think about a guy

 

Joseph  

28 Year 24 year old me would probably be pretty impressed. I don’t know if

 

Erwin  

because how much? I don’t always ask but I’ll ask you. How much is 20 year old you worth? Compared to 24? year old you

 

Joseph  

20? Well, six figures or seven figures? For sure. Millionaire?

 

Erwin  

Yeah, what would 24 year old you like holy cow, you have five properties are worth a million. And you only did in four years.

 

Joseph  

24 year old me would be probably be asking a lot more questions and trying to do the math in my head of how long I’d have to work to get to that point. And I think at 24 I was doing those numbers in my head, which made working for someone else not make sense. Which kind of started that trajectory. I don’t know if what 24 year old me

 

Erwin  

would think. But your 44 year old you’d be impressed by 20. Yeah, yeah. 100%.

 

Joseph  

I’m not impressed by myself, though. But

 

Erwin  

Are your parents impressed by you? I think I think so. Whatever your mother. Yeah, thank you. I’ll tell. I’ll tell her myself in this room.

 

Joseph  

You guys are friends. You guys talk all the time. On Instagram. On Facebook, like they have their own conversations. I’m

 

Erwin  

not gonna have a bunch of new Instagram followers. I’m gonna ask her after this. Are you proud of Joseph? She’s gonna say yes. That’s some other questions running out of time. Can you say your parents are retired?

 

Joseph  

Yes, they are retired. Now there.

 

Erwin  

And the former teachers, so they have very nice pensions. Yes, they do. And what do you think their retirement life would be with if they didn’t have those pensions?

 

Joseph  

I always thought because we were talking about this the other day. And so I asked them and don’t cool. Yeah, I did. I talked to them. My, my parents have always wanted to do something like this. Get involved in investing in real estate and stuff like that. And for the listeners, if we didn’t kind of mention on this podcast, I have two joint ventures with my parents. So that’s what I mean, when they say get involved. But I think from what they told me, they would still they would have started to invest, because the pain into your pension, although it’s great when you retire. When you add up all the money that they’ve paid into the pension, it’s actually really quite substantial. Right, which is why they’re able to retire now with the pension that they have. My parents are of the mindset that they think that they would have invested in something while they were working, instead of kind of putting their money away in the pension. Because for them the pension plan was the retirement plan. And so they didn’t have to worry about it. So they didn’t think about it, or they’re finding out now that the pension is not enough. The pension, is it? Yes, it is. But, but when you have a family that you’re still, like, kind of like dealing with and you have elderly people that you’re taking care of, and maybe those elderly people haven’t planned for their retirement. Right. things add up. Right. And it’s enough to have a good life. And but it’s not enough to have a what I would consider a fruitful tool to help us help other people Yes, to be able to help out people that yeah, that you love. It puts strain, there’s still there’s still money issues. Let’s have it that way. Right. It’s like the pension does doesn’t eliminate the money. Issues. Right. So my parents are of the mindset that they would have started investing earlier, if they didn’t have their pension. I don’t think they would have if you ask me, because my parents have been very risk averse their entire life. I think the only reason they started looking at investing is because mine invested my investments were going well. And I was showing that I was working hard at them. And I was at networking events every weekend, constantly reading up on things constantly looking at things. So I think the confidence they had in me was what got them into this. I don’t think they would have done the same thing. If they not if they were not paying into their pension. So long and short of it. I think that it probably wouldn’t have worked out very well for them if they had not planned if they hadn’t had a pension. Do you think you have any issues retiring? I don’t know. See this. What is retirement Of course you do wonder about everything. What is what is what is considered retirement? Like I think for a lot of like investors at retirement is just really entrepreneurship like being able to live all over the map live their life on their terms financially free. Right. Right. Like I look at you and like that looks like your life to me looks like retirement. I know you for you. It doesn’t look like retirement because it’s a lot of work. But you’re able to live life on your terms of doing what you want to do to some degree. Yes. All right, for me that that is the goal right now retirement where I put my feet up and not do anything. No plans.

 

Erwin  

If you want it to go by the age of 50. Do you think Yeah,

 

Joseph  

100%. But that’s is am I going to be satisfied with that? Is that the question?

 

Erwin  

Here’s one thing though. Do you lose any sleep? No, the idea of I don’t even be able to put up your feet and do nothing.

 

Joseph  

I have 50 I haven’t thought about it on me because

 

Erwin  

it’s not a worry. We were discussing before your mom’s gonna come summer 17. Next, I

 

Joseph  

will force her to come. Yes. September 17. Right. Next Saturday. Yeah, I’ll make her come.

 

Erwin  

Awesome. Because Tammy, we’re going to talk about what people are doing these days. It is funny, because I see all this fear stuff on social media. Like, there’s one lady who’s a broker, whatever she’s like, and what mind? Are you buying anything in today’s market? Message me if you are? Like, yeah, that’s view. We’re getting stuff we couldn’t get six months ago, we may not be able to get six from some experts six months from now. So we’ll talk about what what people are actually buying me. We’ll talk about what Joe bought today, at the September 17. i When meeting. Yeah, but yeah, we’re gonna just tell it like it is. I think the world is very scary. Right. But you know, we had to figure out how to navigate it. And then preferably profit from it. When talking about that, trimmer, 17. So you guys see you there, I will be there, I’m gonna be on your mom.

 

Joseph  

Do you have to invite her because I if she if I tell her to go, she will not go

 

Erwin  

to me will sign her book to see if she comes.

 

Joseph  

That’s it means a lot there.

 

Erwin  

Any final thoughts? Any final thoughts? Because we’re way over time.

 

Joseph  

I think a lot of young investors over the last year, and even now made a lot of decisions based on ego and based on and that ego kind of put them in situations where they’re over leveraged, and maybe they’re now kind of in tough situations.

 

Erwin  

I’ll add to that they’re following charismatic leaders who are no longer around

 

Joseph  

charismatic leaders who have probably liquidated most of their portfolios as well. And I think that people really need to step back and look at it from the long term perspective. Right? If you have to sell you have to sell that’s just the nature, right. But if you’re upset, because you may be down on the equity that you thought you would have had, or you may not be able to refinance for what you thought you would have had, like, you have to look at it from the long term perspective and long term perspective needs to be I’d say at least a minimum of five years, if not more, right? I

 

Erwin  

know that someone should, they should, if they’re gonna take advice from someone, they better be reading the economics, they better understand economics, because I predicted I predicted this year would be another 2017 Yeah, so if you knew God, this was your year was gonna be 2017 Are you really going hard? All right, in the early part of the year

 

Tammy  

I just want to add that we’ve been working together for a long time and I’m very proud of my son Joseph. We have an inside joke that I’m like his mom and yes old enough to be so but yeah, I think that no matter what age of anybody is going to be starting to get into real estate. You were smart that you said you know what I thought about this and I went for it and I’m doing it and a lot of people sit back and don’t always do that and you know, it’s proud of you for doing it. It’s obviously you know, young age is pretty impressive, but at any age getting into real estate is great but yeah, it’s been a pleasure working with you, Joe. We’re not done we’re going shopping today

 

Erwin  

amazing Marty come in use social media handles you guys want to share you guys got a book or something you’re coming up with

 

Tammy  

I have no book time I have a butcher Zito care if any chapter I know I didn’t even know I was so definitely going to take a look at this book. Thanks for free copywriter when you guys heard it here free copy

 

Erwin  

will cure insomnia. Social media handle

 

Joseph  

Yeah, they can follow me on Facebook or Instagram. Joseph Costanza for both Facebook and Instagram.

 

Erwin  

You lock that up or you’d have to compete for those those handles nothing. Just Joe Costanza. Joseph

 

Joseph  

Joseph Joseph Joseph Costanza, one full word on Instagram.

 

Erwin  

And you have a fat wallet just like George Wright died, voted sure

 

Joseph  

that I would not consider myself loaded but yes, sure. Pretty sure 24 year old you would consider 28 year old Yeah, probably but yeah. Oh my standards have changed.

 

Erwin  

Alright, well thank you guys for doing this. Thanks everyone. Good luck. Good luck in your property search

 

Joseph  

yes

 

Erwin  

before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself I got into real estate for the cash flow but with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there are forget the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more, but it’s true for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announced our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself but so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

To follow Joe’s journey:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/josephcostanza/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joseph.costanza.50

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 
 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Former Investments Insider, Real Estate Trader, Writing Low Ball Offers With Montu Dhillon

Greetings, my fellow real estate investors!

How much better are birthdays in 2022 than the last two years?!

If Cherry’s 2nd 20th birthday is any example, it was just like 1999! Apologies to the young people, “Party like it’s 1999,” is a Prince song. It’s ok, ignore this old man 🙂

 
 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Erwin Szeto (@erwinszeto)

Cherry partied hard: spa, dim sum, karaoke, escape room, Lady Gaga concert, stupid expensive dinners and then the best part, the part I organized was a house party complete with pool, barbecue and fresh mango sponge cake.

We hosted a bunch of friends and their kids, including one family visiting from Dubai.  Everyone had a great time, and hosting everyone at our new house felt so good. 

It was like the last two years never happened!

As a present… well, I happened to be in Golf Town, browsing and picked out a very thoughtful gift set of Black Widow collector golf balls. The kids were super jealous. 

I also picked a pair of golf shoes for Cherry as her golf shoes are garbage. They’re over ten years old, and the spikes have all worn out, so their only redeeming value was they were waterproof. 

After this level of gift giving, I will humbly submit my application for the husband of the year 😂

News from the investment world… Have you heard about Tiger 21? I.e. the private network of high-net-worth individuals. 

The minimum to join is now $20,000,000 in liquid assets; the average net worth is over $100M.  

Why is this important?

Well, for this group, historically, the largest % of their investments was in real estate. Recently that just changed as stocks are now #1 as they are seeing “real bargains” in the stock market.

I’m a small fish, though, but I’ll continue to keep the majority of our wealth in real estate, AND I’m deal shopping in the stock market.

If you, too, want to learn more about how to invest like the ultra-high net worth, we’re sharing their secrets at the Wealth Hacker Conference on Nov 12, live and in person only at the Toronto Congress Center. 

We have amazing speakers and vendors planned. Just like last time, this will be the event of the year for entrepreneurs and investors alike. 

If you’re following me on my social or email newsletter, you’ll be informed of promotions, but just now, the price is only going up until the day of the conference; VIP tickets will sell out, so don’t delay. 

Your FOMO will be realised if you do not attend. Go to www.wealthhacker.ca for details.

Former Investments Insider, Real Estate Trader, Writing Low Ball Offers With Montu Dhillon

This week we have a really interesting interview of a gentleman, a co-worker at Rock Star Real Estate, my friend Montu Dhillon.  

He has a unique background, having worked his way up the corporate ladder in the financial services world, specifically compliance, so he saw firsthand who makes money in the investment services industry; hence he started buying real estate.

Montu shares how he started like most of us do, hustling hard in search of cash flow, buying houses, duplexes, fourplex, and Airbnb, then later transitioned into new construction condos for the negative cash flow but way fewer headaches.  

Montu is a bit of a trader as well, having divested some properties near the peak and what property type he has his sights set on may surprise you.

Montu shares his experience in the current market of writing low ball offers and being on the receiving end as well.

This is definitely a story of resilience, entrepreneurship, and taking control of one’s financial future.

Please enjoy the show!

 

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show, I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and I.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you too are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so but for now we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel, we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

This episode is also brought to you www.stockhackeracademy.ca where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full time musician and he just made 50% return in 2021.  Past of course does not predict the future but if you’d like a free demonstration go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right, click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

Erwin  

Greetings, my fellow real estate investors. Welcome to another episode of The Truth about real estate investing show for Canadians. My name is Erwin Szeto, I am a Canadian as last time I checked in how much better our birthdays in 2022 than the last two years. If Cherry’s second 20th birthday is any example. It was like a party just like 9099 Apologise to the young people. It’s a older person term to party like it’s 1999 it’s a Prince song. It’s Okay, nevermind, just ignore this old man. Cherry partied hard. She went to the spa, she did some karaoke escape room, and Lady Gaga concert 50,000 other people, some stupid-expensive dinners. And the best part the part that I organised which was the host party, complete with our use of our pool, barbecue, fresh mangoes, finder page, etc, etc. They hosted a bunch of friends and their kids, including one Vallely, visiting from Dubai, everyone had a great time. And it’s our good to host everyone that our new hosts. It’s like the last two years never happened as a present. Well, I have a deviant golf town browsing in picked out a very thoughtful gift set of Black Widow, you know, the Marvel movie character, Black Widow collector golf balls for cherry. And when I brought them home, the kids were super jealous. Also, I got her a pair of golf shoes as cherries, current golf shoes are basically garbage. And they’re well over 10 years old, extremely well worn. They were supposed to be weighed, you’d never know by the look of them. The spikes on the bottom of the cleats have been all worn off. They were plastic leads, they’re all worn off. Basically, the only redeeming value of the shoe is that they’re waterproof. But yeah, there’s no grip. After this level of gift giving, I will humbly submit my application as husband of the year. Sorry, ladies from the investment world. Have you heard of Tiger 21? That is the private network of high net worth individuals, the minimum to join for application purposes. You know what the pay them law, I’m sure you pay them. But the application purposes to be accepted, you have to have a minimum of $20 million in liquid assets worth of liquid assets. The average net worth of a tiger 21 member is over $100 million. Us. Why is this important? Well for this group historically, because I’ve been following them for close to a decade, they do a survey of their members and to see what they’re liking for investments, right. So historically, based on the survey results of their members, these really really rich people. Historically, the largest percentage of their investments was in real estate. So no surprise there. I’m a small fish, but that’s where most of my money is. And what’s more, I make almost my money. But how recently that just changed. As now stocks are now their number one take the number one largest percentage of their investment portfolio, as they’re seeing real bargains in the stock market. That’s the words of the of the CEO of Tiger 21 real bargains. I’m personally a small fish. So I’ll keep the majority of my wealth in real estate, and I am deal shopping in the stock stock market. If you too want to learn more about how to invest like the ultra high net worth, we’re sharing all their secrets at the wealth hacker conference on November 12. live and in person only at the Toronto Congress Centre, we have some amazing speakers and vendors planned plenty of free parking. And just like last time, this will be the event of the year for entrepreneurs and investors alike. If you’re following me on my social media, or email or on my email newsletter, you’ll be informed of any promotions that we run. But just so you know, the price is going up as in the discounts on the promotions will be to be declining. So if you buy closer to the conference, you will be paying more money so and also the VIPs tickets will sell out. So don’t delay. Your FOMO will be realised the sooner you buy it, the more money you save. So go to www dot wealth hacker.ca For details on the event. Nonsense sweet show this week ever. We have a really interesting interview of a gentleman, also a co worker of mine at Rockstar real estate my friend Monty Dillon. He has a unique background of having worked his way up the corporate ladder, but in the financial services world, specifically in the compliance department. So his job was to follow up on complaints on their own staff. And also like we audit other compliance staff I’ve met my my my experience, they audit also what their staff own certain members of the influential industry haven’t disclosed what investments they hold to their employer. So that’s the part of the point of the compliance department. Hey, there’s so much you have saw firsthand who really makes money in the investment services world. Hence he started buying real estate.

Erwin  

Montu shares how he started like most of us do hustling hard in search of cash flow by Houses duplexes for plexes Airbnbs then later transitioned into new construction condos, for honestly negative cash flow, but way less headaches. Mar two is a bit of a trader as well has he has divested some properties near the peak, just you know. So in the last 12 months is the vastness and properties and what property types his eyes set on for his next investment may surprise you. Surprise me. Marty shares his experience in the current market of reading lowball offers and being on the receiving end of lowball offers as well. We recorded this in the middle of August so you can expect some lowballs are flying around. This is definitely a story of resilience, entrepreneurship and taking control of one’s financial future. And also if you want a free copy of Monty’s digital book, go to Dylan Realty systems.ca. That’s d h i ll O N Realty systems.ca. Please enjoy the show. may want to Hey, hey dinner, good not golfing. But what’s keeping you busy.

Montu  

You know what I have been passionate about golf for the last little while, last couple of months. To tell you the truth. I haven’t been endorsing any condo projects in the last couple of months. And that’s because I’ve seen the potential for a huge pullback in the market since like, March, April. And I’m not one to like, start a panic spread of telling people hey, this guy’s falling. gotta sell your assets. Even that’s what I’ve been thinking. But I just couldn’t tell people to start buying during the decline. So I’ve been keeping myself busy with golf. You golf?

Erwin  

Poorly, or? Anyone lately, so? No, I haven’t hit one lately.

Montu  

So I’ve been golfing for about 25 years, never? Well, I have not I’ve been a terrible golfer for 25 years.

Erwin  

Please tell me it gets easier. Five years?

Montu  

Well, here’s here it is, you gotta get professional lessons. So I went in and spoke to like a coach a couple of times to straighten myself out. And the difference is night and day. So and I have been telling myself for the last five years that when I earn it, I’m going to buy myself some custom clubs. Nice. And so I think this, this is the year this is the year getting fitted and getting myself some some finally some good clubs. And it makes a huge difference. If there’s any golfers out there listening to this, stop struggling, you know, just go get fitted, different clubs performed differently for everyone.

Erwin  

Not the same shoe fits everyone, again, showing the term professional help. Yeah, her bad idea.

Montu  

Now just just proper training, everyone’s got to get straightened out.

Erwin  

That’s a good analogy for almost everything. I’d have a business coach and investment coach, I’d like business coaches in my life.

Montu  

People are trying to like buy real estate, just watching YouTube videos and trying to figure it out when what they really need is someone who’s run the laps before and can just hold their hands and guide them through the process,

Erwin  

right? Just gonna warn you if we’re gonna shoot a YouTube video after this. So we the same schmucks that people can learn from. But we’ve run some laps, we run some laps, we know a little bit of investing. So hopefully we’d like to be the good schmucks on here. So once you have an interesting journey, and you’re in terms of real estate, because you actually come from the investments world, can you tell us about First off what year was that? And then what was your experience working in investments world because you worked in the financial investments world, like large publicly traded companies,

Montu  

the early 2000s. So I do have a background in investments, I was stocks and options. licenced that was my previous previous life. I had the plan to build up a huge stock portfolio and let that say, make a million bucks in stocks and then just collect 6% For the rest of my life. And I thought I could live off of that. Lo and behold, a lot changes in a decade. Right? So I was working with investment advisors and portfolio managers, and I was trading for myself. And I just, I had a position in the compliance department. In a couple of companies like CIBC and Dundee wealth, we’re now they’ve become Echelon partners, I found that I was able to climb the corporate ladder really quickly, especially in Toronto. I come from Montreal, where the salaries were a lot less than Toronto. So when I came to Toronto in like the mid 2000s, my salary practically doubled. And then it would jump by like 30 40% because I would just change, change locations, change careers. Now careers change employers every couple of months, right, because it was so competitive. They were offering the headhunters were like really aggressive, and they were offering immense salary increases. So my salary went from like 35,000 in Montreal, to well, almost 100,000 plus bonuses, which pass those bonuses and the insurance and the stock options. Those are the golden handcuffs. That’s what I learned. So my journey in trying to make as much money as possible and retire early, I learned that I could not break a glass ceiling, no matter how hard I worked, because I was working for somebody else, they subdued my earning potential. So there was a level that I was trying to reach a director in the company I was at. And I had climbed to the position of manager, director, Junior director was right after that, and I just could not get it done, no matter how much work I put into it, no matter how many connections I made, apparently, with this company that I worked for, they only allowed people with like an MBA to reach the director and higher level to become a VP, you had to have an MBA, which was strange to me, because I mean, I knew some directors, and they didn’t look like they had MBAs. You know, I hope there aren’t any directors listening to this. feel slighted. But I mean, there’s smart people and average people. And I learned that in the investment industry, there are some incredibly brilliant minds who have amazing analysis capability. But those are few and far between. And most of them are just average people. In fact, I think every industry is just average people. And there are only a few that really step out, that are the cream of the crop that stand out from the rest, you know, the top 9% as I like to call them, it exists everywhere, in my opinion, even in real estate, you know, even dentists, doctors, lawyers, I’m sure we all know some bad lawyers

Erwin  

is bad, and everything is bad. And everything was great in every industry, too.

Montu  

So although I couldn’t break this glass ceiling, I thought my earning should not be limited. I felt I should be making 300,000 a year. My salary at the time was 90 something 1000 plus bonuses of like 20,000 bucks. So it was just north of 100k. But I was like no, I want to Dylan is a 300k minimum earn, you know, three to 500 should be my lifestyle. I think that’s what we all want. Because that we don’t just want the money. We want the freedom that money provides. So I decided to get a motorcycle and crash it and break about 24 bones in my body. This was terrible plan. Yeah, it was it completely backfired on me. Right. So lying there for three months, not able to sleep lying down. I had to sleep in a recliner. And that’s when I realised that okay, I cannot I was dreading going back to my workplace. It was just the most horrible environment with office politics and some of the characters were just you work with troll. Yeah, at least in this office. There was a couple of trolls and I really did not want to go back to that. So I said to my wife, darlin, I have a crazy idea. Better than motorcycling better better than a motorcycle. I’m gonna be we’re gonna buy some real estate. I think that duplexes if we have a portfolio of duplexes, it’s the cash flow. If we can get a five duplexes that are cash flowing, 1000 bucks, we’re gonna replace my salary. Yeah, that’s all I was making. I was making like 5000 A month after taxes. How the hell did we survive on that? You know what I mean? So that started my epic journey. And I found us got the television personality from HG McGilvery. I found him my wife brought his book to me. And I read it and I was like, Who is this clown? He’s got his picture all over his book. This is I’m not paying attention to him. He’s so egotistical. Then I watched a show one of his shows. And I was amazed at how humble and charming and good hearted he was nothing this guy’s got it figured out. Okay, let me read his book. So read his book. And I was like, Alright, this is what we’re going to do. We’re going to get some duplexes, Scotland McGilvery says, and we’ll be financially free, or

Erwin  

anything properties, income properties, it’s a suite of basements or anchor properties, for sure was all about

Montu  

and then I’ll slowly leave my job. And we can do this. And, you know, got licenced got my real estate licence, started work doing that part time and working in the financial industry full time. But in all 21 me I wasn’t doing much work full time. I was just focusing on real estate trying to figure out trying to get crack this code. And then one day, I stumbled upon income for life. Tom and Nick Carozza, Shadow Tom and Nick are our real estate Rockstar real estate and I read their book and be being a sceptic. I was I was like, telling me I was so angry and I was reading the book. I was like, this does not work. This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. This is not gonna work. And I was I was yelling at it every day to my wife. Look, look at what these guys are for. posing, there’s no way you can do a rent to own it just won’t work. By the end of the book, though, I’ve got to admit, I was sold as like, you know what, I think these guys are onto something, we got to try it, it just the It’s just math. And math doesn’t lie. So let’s do it. Let’s, let’s try, I’m gonna go to one of their free training classes. And yeah, that’s where I met Tom Carozza. So I didn’t join Rockstar brokerage right away, it was just, you know, part of my journey trying to accumulate a whole bunch of like, houses a whole bunch, you know, I bought a fixer uppers, converted them into with legal basements. So have like a two unit dwelling, I got bought me a four Plex I did one rent to own, which ultimately didn’t work out. And then, at some point, because of all the work I was doing, in my houses, I was like, I gotta get property managers, and all the tenant issues that I had the tenant profile in these duplexes, and for plexes, they didn’t really make a lot of money, and they often had problems paying the rent. So one day, someone told me that the best thing we ever did was buy a pre construction condo. And I was like, no way that doesn’t work. You know, houses land is where the money’s at, that’s what you want to get. But, you know, because I had extra assets, and I was able to get a mortgage. At the time, it’s really hard to do that. Now. I decided to go ahead and buy a pre construction condo, what ended up happening was I made like 150 or $200,000, within that timeframe, from start to finish, actually was over, just from start to closing, the value is up 200,000. And I sold it a year later. And then after all my you know, realtor expenses, and paying taxes, etc. I my profit was about $220,000. I didn’t have to fix up any houses, I didn’t have to clean up any cockroaches. I didn’t have any toilets to clean, which is what I was doing previously, you know, getting tenants into my homes, I didn’t have to do any of that. It was just I found good builders who knew how to build and deliver. And then I just started doing that over and over. I just found the pattern, made a few mistakes, figured out what the right pattern is. And then I would just go into business with those people who had the good projects. And then it was just like a sign if you checks, it gets cashed a couple of months later. And then on closing, you get a mortgage, you can either sell it but I found the sweet spot was selling the condo about a year to a year and a half after closing. Why is that? The sweet spot? Number one, there’s you know, tax benefits. You get your HST rebate, you lock that in your value of the unit with a tenant carrying it for a year. If for some reason, I haven’t figured out why but the value jumps within that first year. Lots of theories as to why because you know, the building is still in renovation, and then renovations are all done. People want new but they want now. Exactly right. Yeah. And they’re willing to pay for it. Right. So as an investor if I’m willing to carry it. And if sometimes even at a loss, these some of these units, they cashflow negative, about three 400 bucks a month. So I’m sacrificing about 4800 A year $5,000 A year. But in the end on the flip side when I sell I’m making 200 Without the struggle of having to maintain real estate, maintain houses, fix a leak in the basement, which I have tonnes of experience doing. Believe me

Erwin  

to someone to this let me apology there because there’s lots to unpack. Because you’re skim through the whole part. You worked in the compliance department in the investment industry. Sauron Konya. Yes. What did you see? What can you share? So because you saw you saw the skeletons in the closet shenanigans,

Montu  

right, so what I learned back in those days was there are good advisors and there are bad advisors. I like to surround myself only with good advisors, people who know what they’re doing. But as I manage the compliance department, I saw all kinds of shenanigans. I saw one fellow, this was unbelievable. It was just outright fraud. He would, he took his clients money, and when the market this one stock tanked, they went from $300,000 to $50,000. And clients investor clients investment their account, and he decided to create fictitious statements just on Excel. He sent them homemade Excel statements saying, Yeah, your account is fine, your money’s good. You’ve gone up. And then I remember every time we would try to have a discussion with him in the compliance department. He would say his grandmother died. So it wasn’t just me investigating him. He was other officers that were trying to figure out what’s going on with him. And then when it was my turn to investigate him, you know, and put the bring the boot down. He was like, Oh, my grandmother died. Sorry. Can I get back to you in two days? I’m like, Okay, sure. And then someone else tells me oh my god, that’s his grandmother died. That must be the third time. And I was like, oh, okay, we got a problem. So he ultimately disappeared. We think he left the country. There was a the police went looking for him. They just couldn’t find him. So, yeah, and that person’s whose account was destroyed. Luckily, the company I worked with made them whole. Wow. That’s nice. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, 100 million dollars a year profit, they could at least give them 250k back and avoid a major lawsuit. Right. But again,

Erwin  

you were in the investments industry, financial markets industry, why did you want to be a real estate investor need to be rich doing what the these investment advisors are recommending?

Montu  

That’s a great question. That’s what I wondered. Like, why couldn’t I get ahead? In the investment industry? World? You’re an insider. Yeah, that was an insider who paid less commission do friends and family specials, right? So what I learned was the only people who are really making money in the stock world are the middlemen, the ones who are doing the trades, who are making the Commission, which is ultimately the house, the brokerages. Right, the the CIBC is the RBC is the big houses, they have their investment division, and all their portfolio managers have pictures of their boats on the wall. They all do. I’m like, Wow, these guys are really got it figured out. But what I learned was because their clients were not making the money that they were, I couldn’t continue with it. I believe in you know, the rising tide raises all boats. And it was only their boat that was floating, no one else had a boat, frankly, so and I couldn’t stand that it really bothered me. So I said, You know what, I don’t want to be an advisor. I think the stock market is a rigged game, where only the market makers make any money. So I said, I’m going to do something where once I figure out how to make money for myself, I’m going to help others do it. And so like my my client base, in real estate, and as you know, I am a real estate agent, specialising in condoms, my client base are the ones that I try, whose votes I try to raise. And it’s been pretty good. It’s been a really good decade, I’d say.

Erwin  

Now, not all financial planners and investment advisors are bad. We were talking about before we recording. Yeah. And I, you know, I said are some people I would never trust with their own money. You know, we’ve all lost money at something. I think some people are more talented at losing more money than so I’m not against for certain people best right. That’s the right thing to do. Let someone else manage your money. And also, same thing that’s in common new construction condos. I think for certain people, that’s the right investment for them. Right. But I wanted to ask you, for example, in your journey that you had lost single family, where would you call it resale properties? Use properties? Did that fund your condo investing?

Montu  

Yeah, well, ultimately, it’s where I started. And it was those assets that grew. Yeah. And then I was either able to refi or sell them. And then, and I just thought to myself, You know what, I’ve made a profit. I don’t want to do it again. Because it’s really messy. I want to do something where I get something brand new.

Erwin  

You didn’t want to repeat the experience. You want the grief, you didn’t want the doing the maintenance, and especially the heavy millions.

Montu  

And it’s just because I’d rather do something else with my time. Right, right. Right now I’m golfing a lot, I spend more time with my family. It’s my custom designed life that I feel I’m living. And I wouldn’t want to change that. Even for money, right. So there’s one asset that you

Erwin  

see after you’ve made all this money.

Montu  

That’s one way of looking at it. But there’s one commodity, I think that we cannot ever create. And that’s time where the time the clock is against us. So I also believe that money is the store of energy. And more than just that it’s not just power. People think it’s power, it’s freedom. I think it’s just a store of energy. And when you unleash that energy properly, you create time for yourself, which is that’s the holy grail to me time to do what you want with who you want. And remove the elements of your life that are unpleasant. People places things right, get rid of those out

Erwin  

and just see so often though, that it starts with hustle like you hustled even with 24 broken bones. You went out and hustled in order in order to find an easier investment strategy. Right? Right. So yeah, that’s my like, I mean, like, you know, that’s right for you. It’s not right for everyone. I have this weird Asian mentality that the more suffer the more money it’s crazy.

Montu  

Well, don’t get me wrong. I still have houses in my portfolio. I’m still half in half.

Erwin  

Yeah, and you still hustle I know you have you. Do you still have any Airbnbs left?

Montu  

Well, during the pandemic, I had shut them down. Right. But we are planning on reopening, right. I have long term tenants in my furnished rentals. But now it’s it’s I think it’s time to go back to the service the tourist industry again.

Erwin  

And you do it inside a Toronto condo, right? Yeah.

Montu  

It’s been a bit trickier since Toronto condos, Toronto, the city itself has shut down. Well, as soon as they shut down, they’ve limited the ease that Airbnb operators were able to operate. And before, it’s a little more difficult, but those who know the system, insiders are still doing just fine. They’re still making six 810 $1,000 a month in these condos and there are opportunities. But they’re not for everybody because it’s hard work. It’s not a set it and forget it. A lot of people have to hire property managers to run their Airbnb and PMS. They take about 15 to 20% of the gross. And then what you do you have a property manager I used to write while it was running, right? Yeah, but now I’m going I’m going to reopen it. I’m just going to manage it myself.

Erwin  

You’re going to fluff pillows and well stocked toilet paper.

Montu  

Well, well, that’s the thing. It’s so easy to hire a cleaner to do that. Okay, so you hire out with our technology, you can just press an app and someone will go to your your condo and do it all for you. But as for the guests communication, setting the prices, looking at the market, I’ll do that myself. I did it before figured out how

Erwin  

right. So you talked about limiting grief with your other investments. How do you keep an Airbnb investment with limited grief that you’ve read the same stuff articles in the media? I have, you know, raging postgraduate graduation party in two people got shot, whatever. Right?

Montu  

Well, the media likes to print what bleeds. Yeah, because it reads, yes. That’s how media works. So I have found that 98% of the time you get amazing guests, they’re respectful, they just come in, they use your place. And then they leave

Erwin  

people like me, I’m not there to cause any trouble. You have my credit card. And I’m cheap, causing any trouble.

Montu  

So what I also did was I increased the deposit required on my Airbnb, increase your damage deposit to $1,000. Ultimately, it’s just a deterrent, because if they feel they can cause the damage, Airbnb is going to side with them. And lately, Airbnb has not been making owners whole, they’ve been a bit problematic, because they’ve scaled and now they’re a publicly traded company, they, they seem to be putting less effort towards owners of properties. But that said, like 90% of the time, you’re gonna have an easy run. You’re just a hotel, you own a mini hotel, and you just send your maid in to clean it once in a while. You make all the money. And then just remember, it’s a business, treat it as a business and business and I know you have experienced you guys ran your own Airbnb. So I’m preaching to the choir here. But for the listeners, it’s a business, treat it like a business and you’ll flourish treated personally, if you get upset about what they did to your place, you’re gonna want to quit, and then you’re giving up all these potential returns that you could be making.

Erwin  

I don’t talk about enough, I call it return on my grief. So just because I naturally think analytically, the story often shares one time. I had like a small piece of roof that just goes over my front porch and when our properties well as a windstorm, like we’ve had with some crazy wind storms. So it was blowing and just hanging off, right. And my tenant has four kids, single mom, and then I couldn’t get someone to take care of it. So I drove and went out and took care of it. I got a ladder unscrewed it took it down. Or I called a buddy to pick it up because it couldn’t fit my car was too big to take it away. But you know, it took me two hours total right? To drive out take care of it. Like oh, sucks the weekends my weekend that I think about how much money I made. on that property. You think about it, right? Yeah. You know, that property? Probably appreciated rental five, six grand that month alone cost me two hours. So that’s like, you know, 2500 $3,000 an hour. Yeah. That’s worth my grief. Right. So then like, okay, I’m okay. Yeah. Right. So that’s why me like return on grief for what was going on with that because Airbnb is not always easy. And also, like you said, you can’t get up. Like you can get upset, but then go back to quantify it. I was upset for 20 minutes. And a cash flow of eight grand this month. isn’t worth it. Think of how much grief people have in a day job to make eight grand a month. Right. There’s probably a lot of grief for almost everyone, you know, commuting whatever, office bullies, right. Yeah, office trolls, as you mentioned office trolls, or was that the name of the app that you mentioned that you use for booking a maid?

Montu  

It’s called bark.com is going to bark.com I think var K var K? And then finally, maybe, yeah, you just just say, hey, I need a cleaner. And they just send, you know, you get a whole bunch of people who are saying, oh, yeah, I could, I could clean your place, this is my price. And you get some good cleaners and bad cleaners, like everything else. So then when you find a good one, you just keep them and make sure you pay them well. Right? If they if they want 100 bucks, say, Look, I’ll give you 120 to come back. And you know, I think effort needs to be rewarded, right?

Erwin  

Because they kind of like what the market is, for example, good quality people. Exact 20%. Inflation. Yeah. And to make sure that your priority, exactly right. Well, if you’re caching like eight grand a month, you know, paying a little extra for cleaning, it’s probably worth it.

Montu  

Yeah, right. And people get bogged down in the details. And sometimes they run an operation like an Airbnb hosting operation. And they’re like, Well, I don’t want to pay 150 bucks for cleaning. Come on, folks. Here, you just made $1,000. This month, just shell out the extra 150 It’s a business. Every business has an expense. If you want it that’s one thing I’ve learned in the last two decades is when you throw money at a problem, it fixes it. Don’t rely on your own expertise that are other people are better equipped to take care of your problem. And just give them money to do it. In money. Just you’re storing some energy. And they can do it faster, better quicker than you can. Like, you know, plumbers, for example. I knew a couple things about plumbing and electricity with all the houses I’ve managed. I used to do it all myself. And now it’s I just find a plumber. And they fix it permanently. Yeah, they cost. Yeah, electricians costs. But guess what, I’ve never gone back to those homes, that I botched the electrical or the plumbing job myself. So now it’s it’s you know, one and done. When you hire a pro.

Erwin  

I think part of your grief issue is that you did a lot of the work yourself.

Montu  

Maybe it’s trying to save the money. Right?

Erwin  

I said it recently, it takes a village to raise a child it takes a village to have a successful investment property. Yeah. Right. And all these people tried to do it themselves. Yeah. Same thing with raising a child to not do daycare to not you know, do schooling to Yeah, like it takes a village. Can’t do it by yourself. It’s just a lot easier if you don’t do it by yourself. Can you give us a bit of a breakdown? What percentage of your portfolio is new construction versus like everything else?

Montu  

Well, here’s the thing. My new construction is I trade it. So right now my

Erwin  

if you’re not really an investor of new construction trader, I’m investing

Montu  

during the holding period. So yeah, I mean, as you point out my new beyond one year of Yeah, because especially with, you know, the recent downturn, I advocated everyone to sell in like February, I was like, Hey, guys, I think the markets gonna pull back sell what you have while you can, I sold two properties, one last year, one this year, in March or April. And I’m glad I did because I was predicting like a 30% pullback. At the same time, I was seeing a potential increase in condo prices, because of just the laws of supply and demand. So the houses that I sold, they did come down, and I’m glad I sold them. And I think versus last year.

Erwin  

The policies were these both condos that you sold her homes, or both houses. Yeah.

Montu  

What’s it nice low rise, one in Guelph. And one in Hamilton got it. Sorry, continue. So yeah, I made out made up well with them. And now I’m sitting on dry powder, because I think that there’s a next opportunity that’s coming. So I’m a 6040 in my portfolio with new construction and resale. And I am going to be adding so I’m not a condo nut know what I mean? Like I just saw an opportunity in condos in the last seven years. And I capitalised on it. I’m an opportunist.

Erwin  

You’re not You’re not an agnostic investor. Yeah, exactly.

Montu  

And I see the next opportunity right now coming in detached homes, because I think the carrying cost for them was way too high. Everything above a million bucks, carrying costs with current interest rates is like $6,000. Right? With property taxes, insurance, all that we’re talking about six grand how many people can afford that. So I think these homes, they’re going to be coming down because the demand is just not going to be able to meet that carrying cost. Luckily, I’m one of the few people who can pick up one of these units are and so

Erwin  

you’re not an everyday investor. Yeah, that’s like clear. Just because I want to I want to I always think context is important. You can afford to do this. You have the bankroll to do

Montu  

that. Exactly. And so I think these homes and I think it’s not just me, I think a lot of other people gonna be able to do.

Erwin  

I totally agree. Because detached is what’s coming down the most in price. Exactly. And also, so my thinking is, again, it’s math, the per square foot cost of a bigger home is less than that of a smaller home, right, a two story home cost per square foot is less than a bungalow, but the rent per square foot is probably the same same, the same. So there’s a bit of an arbitrage opportunity exact so why would I buy a bigger home and turn into a triplex? For example? This was my thinking, what what was your thinking around detached home investing?

Montu  

So everything most detached, different, people are paying like $1.5 million, or at least they were like the average detached home is going for about 105 to 2,000,002 bucks. It’s insane. Absolutely nuts. And I think a lot of it was speculation and people got ahead of themselves thinking, they’re listening to the wrong people thinking, oh, yeah, it’s gonna go to three, it’s gonna keep going up to the moon. And then, you know, when when the stack starts to shake, people are going to start dumping these, these things, these assets really fast. And you always want to go against the herd against the grain. I’m a contrarian investor. And that’s, I think, where I’ve made most of my money in the shortest amount of time, by doing the opposite what everybody else is doing. So sell high, buy low, but you know, you just get that queasy feeling that you’re doing it wrong. When you get that wrong feeling. You’re actually right. Because guess what 95% of people are wrong about money. Only 5% know what they’re doing. They actually understand money. It’s not currency or paper. It’s it’s a store of energy. And once you know how to like capitalise and hold it in reserve, and then release it. So hope people sold those of you who are smart enough and sold earlier this year, you’ve got some dry powder, you should be able to release it in a couple of months. We’re sitting here in August 2022. And I see an immense opportunity in detached homes coming up in like, October, November. And I think it’s just when the news is that oh, it’s gonna go even lower, or detached homes are going to be under a million bucks very soon, that’s when we buy because most people are wrong. And most people are going to be preaching that the market is going to tank markets gonna drop even further. That’s when I jump in and buy. I understand that for a while. We never act on it. Because we hear our neighbours and a lot of my clientele, they miss out on opportunities because they’re listening to their neighbours, who say you should sell your house for this price. But no, they’re they’re chasing the market down. The house is not that price anymore, and they’re not able to sell it. So you got to listen to the experts, right? Don’t listen to the other crabs in the bucket. When you get that feeling that you are right. Despite everyone else, you got to pull the trigger. And you’ll find that, you know, a couple of months later, everyone catches up to you. And then by then it’s too late.

Erwin  

So tell me what you’re looking for. Tell me what you’re looking for in a detached home.

Montu  

Okay, this is hard to get right now. Because you know, I’m out there making lowball offers. I got some amazing stories. I’m out there making lowball offers right now on detached homes and I am offending people. Oh my God, they are. They’re taking it so personally, they respond with such vile anger. You’ll moron, you think my house is worth this. So I’m just you know, pitching lowball offers to houses that have not sold, I look for something on the market that hasn’t sold in three weeks. So after two weeks, because they’re used to things being sold in two weeks, if in the third and fourth week, if it’s dry, even sometimes two months. So I can see that it’s not selling and then me being the opportunities that I am I look for contracts that are about to expire, meaning the realtor is going to lose the listing very soon. So he’s motivated or she’s motivated to get the place sold.

Erwin  

Right? That’s also been sitting to Yes, it’s probably been sitting Yeah, three months to six months. Exactly.

Montu  

Right. So my pitch a lowball offer 300k, under ask, under what actually under what I think is reasonable. And either the price will you know, we’ll meet in the middle, or I don’t move forward. Because I have the money. They want my money. And no one else has given them money. So they’re either going to sell it to me now or they’re going to sell to somebody in three months for the price I’m asking anyway. That’s how I see it. Anyhow, right. So I’ve offended a lot of people, but I don’t care. He’s just a numbers game. And you’re a real estate investor. You know what I mean? And the worst was check this up. This is so terrible. A house appeared on my street and I wanted a house on my street because it’d be so easy to Airbnb, very easy to manage. And they’re worth about 1.4 mil. And, you know, and they looked at 1.3 because they had an unfinished basement. And there was a lot of bad media at the time. I went in, I offered like 1025 like super lowball, and of course, the sellers were offended. And I told them

Erwin  

why it’s $1,000,000.20 1,000,025 when I was just just north

Montu  

of a million, and it properly dressed this house would have sold for 1.3 It just wasn’t dressed well. The agent didn’t really do a good job. afterwards, yeah, she, she doesn’t really understand staging or marketing, right?

Erwin  

So he’s terrible.

Montu  

And I have that skill set. So I’m like, Okay, let me just grab it, I’ll pay 1.1. For it in my mind, I’m thinking I’ll pay 1.1 for it, and I’ll dress it up, and I’ll sell it for 1.3. I could even hold it for a year, put a tent in there while the market recovers, if it sinks. So in retrospect, it was a bad idea to tell them all the things I found that are wrong with the house, because that’s what pissed them off. They’re like, they took it so personally. So I found there was basement moisture, I found a crack in the foundation, I found all kinds of you know that this is dated that’s dated. And so this is why my offer is this. And they weren’t getting any other offers, right. And I knew the market was dry. So they’re either going to take my offer, or it’s going to sit, and they’ll eventually take my offer if they get nothing else. Long story short, they wanted 1.2. They said we’re not going to be lower than 1.2. A week later, they sold it to somebody else other than me for 1060. When I found that they had submitted they had another offer on the table, I went in and offered 1.1 million. I offered 1.1. And they took the 1060 because they hated me. They did not want to deal with the guy who insulted them. Right there

Erwin  

hate for you. 40,000. Assuming capital exempt came Gains Exemption $40,000 after tax money was the dollar value for their hate for you. Yeah,

Montu  

exactly. So that’s something. So now when I’m pitching my lowball offers, I’m not doing that anymore. I’m not you know, telling them but the basement moisture. say here’s my offer, you want to take it or leave it, you know, and a key is Don’t piss off the other agent as well. Because he or she holds the door to your access to the sale and if you haven’t learned I’m I’m a tough negotiator. So I N You know this about me, I call it like I see it. I don’t pull punches. If I see something wrong. I don’t keep it inside. I tell them as Okay, that is kind of dumb. Right? Don’t don’t think you’re gonna trick me. This is BS, and a lot of people. They’re so sensitive. We live in a very sensitive world. Yeah,

Erwin  

but But again, we’re dealing with individuals you’re going to find. All right, you could have found the most sensitive individuals on the street. just gotten lucky. Yeah. All

Montu  

right. So that’s what I’m doing. I’m I think there’s a huge opportunity for low rise. Detached semis talents are going to be coming up right now. It’s for detached semis in towns are still going up in value, but I think they’re going to stop very soon in pullback. Meanwhile, the more

Erwin  

started a home the more seems to be resilient. Yeah, right. Yeah. Condos are presumed pretty reasonably resilient resale resale.

Montu  

At this time in August 2022. Condos are up like 7% versus last year. Oh my lord. Meanwhile, detached homes are down 3% versus last year. So condos have bridged the gap by about 10%. Right. That’s that’s the

Erwin  

time to return detached down 3% year over year, but from Peak, we’re probably down 15 or more

Montu  

24%. Okay, so the average price from February to now. Or I should say using the July data, it’s down 24%, the average price of a home. So I figured detachment is somewhere in there. But I’ve had a lot of very smart investors who were working with me that said, Yeah, let’s sell and they got out in like February, March, April. And now they’re sitting on some dry powder. And now they got some money burning a hole in their pocket. And they’re thinking, Oh, well, what should we do? Should we buy some Kryptos or not? And I just hold on to it, you know, the opportunities coming? And don’t don’t follow the herd. There’s other people buying just wait. I know. It’s

Erwin  

weird, though. Because then you know, the 17 listeners that listen to this podcast. Sure what we’re doing? Well, everyone’s doing buying the detached, need to do something else. You know, I mean, I get that too, because I talked to like, really smart people and like, Wow, all these smart people are doing this. Am I just following the herd?

Montu  

You know, I mean, the difficult thing is there’s going to be opportunities for detached homes, and they’re still going to be six figures. So the market has shown us they’re willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a detached house. 1.71 point 8 million is, you know, Richmond Hill, Markham Oakville, that’s what they’re clocking in at. And that tells me that the market is going to be willing to do it again, when the Fed ultimately has to cut their interest rates. We all know that they have to, you know, I don’t know if we all do.

Erwin  

We all do. Because like the people who are like fearing this, that’s the end of the world. Well, they’re the ones who know the 16% Right. They’re thinking right,

Montu  

these are the guys who are going to sell me their house for 40% discount. And once that opportunity is there and the investors are there to pick up the broken pieces they’re going to sell I don’t think we’re at the market bottom yet. I I think once the fed the US FOMC, once they start to cut interest rates, that’s when the bottom is going to be like, you can basically ring the bell. That’s the bottom decile. Nobody rings the bell at the bottom, but I’m calling it when the when they cut interest rates, that’s the bottom of the market. Some people will still be preaching that we’re going lower. But that’s when I’m going to be buying

Erwin  

any guesses when that will be? And I’m just not going to hold you to it because we don’t know what she’s doing crystal ball,

Montu  

I think spring of 2023 Not even far away. Yeah, yeah.

Erwin  

So we’re recording this August 2022, we’re talking six months,

Montu  

nine months, nine months, well see that the harvest always comes later. So the failed harvest takes about six to eight months to come to fruition. And right now, whatever we’re trying to harvest, like the supply chain issues that we have, people are getting laid off, a couple of my tenants just got laid off. So we’re in for a storm that’s coming. And to all my fellow landlords who were suffering during COVID. And Mr. Doug Ford, convinced all the tenants that, hey, you don’t have to pay rent, just buy food. You know, don’t worry, someone will pay the mortgage. Now you were in for that. Again, I think it’s coming. We’re gonna see massive layoffs coming up. And I think this is a manipulated and triggered event. I think the Keynesians they need to deflate the economy, I think the forcing us into a recession, and it’s going to be layoffs are going to be business closings, all the money that we have at all these assets, including the market, gold Bitcoin house, it’s all going to be pulled out. And it’s going to be like an exhale, and everything’s going to shrink a bit. So those of us who have assets sitting on the side, dry powder I keep talking about now,

Erwin  

but painful that dry powder with all this inflation going on. Yeah.

Montu  

So what what is inflation and loss of wealth? I’ve I’ve been pondering this for a long time, months and months. And I came to the realisation that we’re not really poor. When our assets go down, we only get poor if the things that we want go up in price where our assets go down

Erwin  

costs gone up in price. Yeah, golf clubs are way more expensive now than they were last year, year before.

Montu  

And if I if someone wants a Rolex,

Erwin  

it’s been a good investment. Or you want to hang out in Canada,

Montu  

too. So if our income and our assets like the stock market, are we listed, if that’s shrinking, and the things that we want, if I want to buy like a Bentley, I don’t have just an example. I’m not like, I’m very humble. I drive a Ford midsize SUV, right? If the things that we want are going up in value, we’re screwed. And I think that’s what we’re going to be seeing. So get that dry powder. While you can

Erwin  

refer for us we refight five houses in q1 this year, because I saw a storm common Yeah, yeah. So we don’t have debt related in dry powder. Okay, so some things unpack. I want to go back to the detached example, because I know you’re smart. You’re not just gonna buy a detached and not have like at least three options on how to make money on it. Yeah. What were your plans for how to make money on it? I think you mentioned Airbnb, you said in passing, you throw up a tent in one

Montu  

as a joke. So is that the

Erwin  

Airbnb the tents.

Montu  

what the plan is just, is to renovate it and just improve it. Because a lot of these house No one’s buying it because they’re not in good condition. So send a couple of send a team of contractors in there invest about 50 to 100k into it, and then put it back on the market properly staged and lovely. Second plan is to put a tenant in there to carry it through the storm, maybe two years if things turn bad. Get a tenant in there too. And yeah, I’ll probably be cashflow negative about 1000 bucks. Alright, I’ve run the numbers already. And Plan C is just to, you know, clean and put it back on the market right away.

Erwin  

Nowhere b b option therapy options.

Montu  

Well, yes, that’s like the tenant that

Erwin  

the long got it. Okay. You want a situation, have someone carry it? Got it. Got it. And again, this is for people who can afford these investments. It’s not everyone can afford a negative.

Montu  

Well, here’s the thing, and I think a lot of Canadians are a lot richer. Many of us have real estate that’s gone up in value. I think we have money, he locks, etc. And we have the dry powder. We just need to be fearless in releasing it. And I think a lot of people are not going to want to be wanting to release it that quickly. But other than detached homes. The other thing I’m looking at is of course new construction, but there’s certain things I look for in new construction condos. The deposit structure, it’s pretty important right now to have a favourable deposit structure, you want something around 15% with 5% occupancy, that’s what I like to see. Builder Calibre is very important. Believe it or not as an industry insider for pre construction condos, I think 40 percent of whatever was built that was ever was sold is not going to be built. And there’s going to be a lot of cancellations or delays. So you really got to do your homework and choose your builders who have deep pockets. If you want to see your project come to fruition, I’ve got my own algorithm, the old man to algorithm which, like I have a couple of things that I look for, that tells me a builder is actually going to be able to complete it. And one of those things, believe it or not, is price. If the price is too low, you’re not going to get completed. I’m sorry, if you if you bought something for less than 1000 a square foot in Toronto, the builder might walk away from it. Right? And then that’s

Erwin  

catastrophic for many people further pre construction to not close. It’s going to be common versus leaders versus my income property. Like if I’ve captured all the appreciation, right? And they just, you know, I had a friend he got he got he got interest. He got some interest money. Yeah, that was it honest that

Montu  

zondo gotta be really careful. You gotta be really smart. Oh, and just clarify Connor wasn’t cancelled.

Erwin  

They asked for more money.

Montu  

I’ll one of those deals. Yeah, wanna give us another 100k? Or we’re not gonna Yeah, Bill

Erwin  

or you can have it Yeah, right. So at least he had options better than Complete Cancellation he would have had you would have had some equity gain. We kept some equity gain if you’d come up with the money and that’s

Montu  

where the builder calibre so important, because if the builder is not one of the up and up guys, they can do that. You know, it’s

Erwin  

but everyone knows as builders downtown Burlington, you probably know that one and we won’t name names. But you know, the one I know the one right on the water downtown Burlington starts

Montu  

with an H.

Erwin  

Sorry, it’s actually public because it made headlines in the paper. So we shouldn’t trash people. Yeah, we should like why, again, like if the price is too low, I don’t blame. I don’t blame them, like you priced it wrong. It’s just like property managers. When I’ve seen property manager charge too little. I’m like, how are you going to get it? How are you going to make money at this, you’re gonna come from me somewhere else. I’d rather you just pay you here. And then you’re not going to come after me for when you like do change a doorknob charged me $100 To change your doorknob.

Montu  

And the last thing that’s very important for new construction is the neighbourhood. You want to have neighbourhood amenities, which are going to attract people to the neighbourhood that are going to float the value of the real estate. You want to have parks and libraries and commerce. The closer you are to downtown, the better protected you are from from a drop in demand.

Erwin  

Are we just talking Toronto or anything? Yeah, all cities you’d like. Do you like any other cities? Yeah, I

Montu  

  1. It’s not just Toronto that I help people trade in. I like York. Vaughn. Big fan of Vaughan, Richmond Hill, big fan of Oakville. It’s why moved here. And basically everything to the west of the DVP. I’m not crazy about the east side. Not just because it’s far away, but just the demographic isn’t what I would put in my own properties. But I like everything to the west. Up to Burlington, basically, Burlington, Mississauga is getting very congested Mississauga and Brampton, I kind of avoid for my own reasons. But everything else like Etobicoke great, great city. There’s a lot of attractions to people to these areas. So So basically in downtown

Erwin  

Lakeshore corridor, all the way to Burlington, is your preferred is your preference. Anything out of province?

Montu  

No, no, I looked at it. I looked at Montreal and you know, I’m from Montreal. I have nostalgic reasons for wanting to buy their beautiful city. But i i the political environment is not great. I won’t even get into Calgary. Maybe I can touch on Calgary. I’m not a fan of Calgary, there’s a lot of Oh

Erwin  

god, we’re going into a new construction. There seems to be a lot of new construction. I might be wrong. Social media is full of ads.

Montu  

And I might be dead wrong about it. They might flourish but they’re a one industry sector. And if something happens to oil, Calgary is going to tank again. Whereas Toronto we are we have three major industries finance, technology and media, film and media. And if one industry takes a hit, there’s a what do you call a float from the other industries that are going to help people and help the economy? That’s not gonna happen with Calgary.

Erwin  

Right on all the mining head offices are in downtown Toronto, for example. So yeah, there’s lots of high paying jobs downtown Toronto. So those are two favourite things and Monteux again, you’re agnostic investor, you do everything that you do. I remember we were talking when we were golfing the you Do you still have any holding the crypto stock or options?

Montu  

i Yeah, I’m a I’m a fan of crypto. There are four big ones that I am heavily trading. I have a little bit of everything because to me I don’t know which one is going to take off and become the next next one to the moon. But not a lot but I do trade Bitcoin Aetherium polka dot and this is not advice by the way. Polygon Yes. Not financial advice, folks. Sorry, one more time

Erwin  

Bitcoin. Just a polka dot

Montu  

polka dot Aetherium of course and Paul I got those are my four favourites because they have a trading pattern that as you know, I have like a background in trading they have a trading pattern that I’ve discovered from technical analysis that mirrors, Bitcoin and Aetherium everything else is just sinks and makes a move on sensationalism, or rumour or hype. But these four there’s something also something about the technology I really like. It’s found it has a real world use. I also have a dark horse hedera I’ve looked into it, I think this one is dark, you spell it? I can’t spell it. But the symbol is h bar HB AR. The reason I like this one is it solves the problem that Bitcoin has the speed and the you know, transferring crypto assets across the world, it should be within seconds. And Hadera does that Bitcoin very slow according to today’s standards? I mean, it’s 2022. We should be I shouldn’t have to wait, you know, 2030 minutes for my funds to be sent to Australia. That’s how impatient I am. You know, back in the day, it would take 48 hours to send money to Australia. But now I want it done. Yeah, we’re in 60 seconds tops, and Hadera does that it’s, I think what these guys have come up with this brilliant, not financial advice, folks. Don’t buy too much of it. But I think that could be the next big one. And Aetherium I like Aetherium more than I like Bitcoin, just because of its real world use. And it’s got more that technology is better, in my opinion, of course. And because of the high gas fees, it has a diminishing supply. So the supply is going down. It’s not increasing. And of course they got some kind of merger going on coming up in September. We’ll see how that goes. But

Erwin  

yeah, can you share what percentage allocation of your portfolio flows?

Montu  

Well, let’s just say I only recently started digging going down the crypto rabbit hole. It’s been about a year, maybe less than a year. It’s been about a year. And I had a goal to have 10% of my net worth in crypto. I’ve decided to just because it’s untested and anything can go wrong. It could go to zero. I’m reducing that to 5%. So my portfolio is 5% Crypto 5% insurance. Little bit of gold gold is just what kind of insurance whole life dividend paying and and the rest real estate baby that’s real estate has been working for the last 14 years. So

Erwin  

there’s look at what everyone paid for anything. Funny. Side use the story. I have a friend who works for trial. He bought his for like 600 just high 600 per square foot Wow. years ago. And that’s the only one he bought like, man, you’re an insider. Right? You know, exactly. You have access to all their research in like when there’s no you know, I was just like everybody else because I’m not I’m not in that industry. right close to it. You know, when I hit $1,000 a square foot, like, you gotta be kidding me. Right? Everyone went nuts. Everyone went nuts. And there was a 1200 square foot for comparing to what you know where no one’s buying bat. Right.

Montu  

So we this, this spring and summer I was seeing resale condos selling for 1500 to 1700 square foot or they’re nicer places, right? They’re newer buildings. Of course, not the older stuff. But still it’s the resale. It’s not the new construction, new construction, we’re clocking in at 1700 square foot to start in downtown Toronto.

Erwin  

I heard some new stuff selling selling for 17. Yeah, we don’t know if it’s gonna get built.

Montu  

Well, that’s the thing is if they’re selling it for 17, that’s I think that’s reasonable with the cost of everything. And labour is very expensive now. So they have a chance of being completed. If you’re paying 1300 to 1700 per square foot for new construction, you’re safe, or I should say safe River, because you never know. But if you’re paying less than 1300 for new construction, it’s I think it’s a dice roll. Because how can they do it? It’s expensive, their construction loan, you know, they’re paying more interest on that loan. So you may not get built.

Erwin  

And then same timing for nutrition kind of when interest rates start going down again. Yeah, on spring,

Montu  

the good builders will keep doing a good job. Everyone else is going to be delayed by about a year or two

Erwin  

right now because some builders will want to protect their reputation it was build it somebody even built it for a loss. Yeah. Crazy. Good on them.

Montu  

Well, there’s there’s a storm coming. You know, there’s a big storm coming.

Erwin  

We’re talking before this, like the storm has been coming forever.

Montu  

There’s always a storm. You know, this one was just a bad one. And it’s not about waiting for the storm to pass. Right. It’s about learning to dance in the rain. And I think this is going to be what’s upcoming people are not, they’re not expecting it. And if you don’t learn how to thrive in the rain and still push forward and still have a way to get through, if you’re just waiting for interest rates to bottom out, you know, or I should say peak out and prices to bottom out, you’re not going to you’re not going to do anything very, very, you still have to be an active, active person. I always look like right now I’m pitching lowball offers, even though I don’t think the market has bottomed yet. I think we’re going lower. Because real estate is perfect. Yes.

Erwin  

Like people will take deals that are imperfect. Exactly. So that’s, that’s it?

Montu  

No look for the opportunity here.

Erwin  

Because because we were looking at a deal, for example, where the bank was gonna take back the property. So either take our deal, or you let the bank take control, or would you rather, right, right, you’re gonna be hammered legal fees from the bank. As soon as they take the start taking it back. It’s and you’ve lost complete control. Now. It’s no longer your house, you can’t do nothing. You have no power. Right? So choose, right. Is to us. To me, it was a fair offer, but oh, gee, Monty, we’re way over time. Okay. Let’s talk about your book. Oh, yeah.

Montu  

Let’s cover that real quick. So insider secrets to pre construction, condo buying, renting and selling for maximum profit. I wrote this book a couple years back, it’s when I was predicting a rise in the condo value when everyone else thought that condos aren’t going to be worth anything. So I just put my experiences and tips and tricks, not just about condos, but you know how to deal with your selling, when you have to buy pre construction, how to sell pre construction, assignment opportunities. There’s even a bit of a little bit about some Airbnb how to short term to a short term rental. In my book, it’s really for people who want a an insider’s experience in the condo investing world, and how to find opportunities, because not everything is a good deal. So I kind of outline like, what types of properties what type of condos to look for what type to avoid, how to get a good deal. What are immediate delivery condos, because sometimes builders, they have extra inventory that they’re paying to carry, and they’re eager to get rid of it. So you can go in there and making them an offer. So if they’re asking like, you know, 900k, you can come and say I’ll take it off your hand if you throw in a free parking spot for 800k. And sometimes they do that. I got a couple of deals like that actually,

Erwin  

are their deals available in the assignment market right now? I

Montu  

think, again, it’s about going against the grain, there’s going to be a lot of people selling assignments. So if there’s excess supply, where is the demand? Let’s

Erwin  

just back up and explain the assignment market. So you correct me if I’m wrong. So people who bought new construction, and for whatever reason, they’re they’re wanting to sell their contract, basically, without closing guess, right?

Montu  

Yeah, they want to hand over their contract to somebody else, that person steps into their shoes and closes with the builder directly. So there used to be that assignments were very profitable, because they’re on a rising market, right. And they’re very, very little units available. So people are just gobbling them up. But right now, I think a lot of people are worried and that they’re going to be trying to sell their unit via assignment. It’s it’s a great time to buy an assignment, because there’s very few buyers. So you will get a good deal. But it’s not a good time to sell an assignment. Because you’re just going to get lowball offers. That’s what we’re seeing, like had a couple assignment listings. And all we got were lowball offers, even though the value of the unit is very reasonable to what we’re asking. It just people are just coming in 200k under

Erwin  

alright, because did you get emotional? Receiving?

Montu  

No, I did. I was expecting it because I was that guy on the other side. Right.

Erwin  

So that’s just the most you’re willing to give and take, you know, if you’re gonna give it you’re willing to take it. Yeah, exactly. And then any update, cuz I haven’t really seen it in the news, weren’t there construction slowdowns? Like weren’t certain groups on strike?

Montu  

Yes, lots of supply issues. And then labour strikes. So all new construction condos being built were delayed by another couple of months. So I started to say all I would say like 80% Because every project that I had, in my own portfolio that’s coming up for delivery, every builder sent me a notice saying hey, we don’t know how long this strike is going to last we’re delayed, we’ll let you know. Do you know what they’re asking for in terms of like more money? More money less? I don’t know. not privy to that. Labour agreements.

Erwin  

I’m just curious because then that gives me an idea how much labour inflation will be realistic. So

Montu  

labour is the builders biggest expense. So they have concrete steel lumber all that to pay for but labour is 40% of their costs.

Erwin  

So your your to build Yes. 40% including way as part of the between the whole pie that’s what

Montu  

that’s what they tell me. Right? So I don’t see their books, but they’re telling me there’s land costs. They’re soft costs, there’s closing costs, there’s materials costs, but labour is 40%. You are paying. So if you’re buying something for 1,400,000 of that is to pay people to like and it’s not just your unit. Remember, they’re building the entire building. They’re building the elevators are building the amenities. They’re, they’re building the foundation, they’re building the garage, so yeah, stuff’s expensive, man.

Erwin  

That’s expensive. And that’s part of the reason why real estates indexed to inflation. Yes. All right. We can’t just import labour. We kind of tries to but even whatever imports still expensive, if it came here to make more money, then come here and make less money. Wow. Okay. mattoni. Any final words?

Montu  

Okay, people in time. If people want to get a free copy of my book, they can download it at Dylan Realty. systems.ca. If you spell that Dylan d h, I ll O. N real TRAALTY systems.ca.

Erwin  

And we’ll have that in the show notes, folks. So if you’re driving, it’s okay. Yeah. Well, the link in the show notes.

Montu  

And yeah, I wish people luck and fortune. Those who partner up with an expert are going to achieve their goals.

Erwin  

Yeah, especially fear. Because I talk to people all the time in real estate. And I find I often find they don’t really know much what’s going on as literally golfing with someone just this week. And they said to me, I know all these people who, who bought a property already. Now they can’t sell their home. And I’m like, well, they get some bad advice. Yeah, I certainly more What’s worse than that? Is like no one could predict this. And like, I told my clients Exactly. This could happen. Right, right. I told me this could exactly be in 2017. Again, yeah. Right. So the advice from my mouth to our clients was you know, in December, January, February, March, if your plan is to sell the next 12 months sell it now. Yeah. All right. That’s exactly what I told you. Take the risk off the table. Right. I bought a risk right. And I did a sort of the same thing by refinancing. I’m too scared to sell and miss out on the game. Yeah, for more on all sides. iPhone crypto, Bitcoin at 23 grand. Like David, I missed the 20.

Montu  

What do you think so what you’re doing my pleasure, always a pleasure hanging out with you around. If you need any other advice, and if you want to discuss what good projects are coming up, you know where to reach me.

Erwin  

I’ll be bugging you about where you can fit for golf clubs. Awesome. Take care.

Erwin  

Before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already, then sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow but with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there are forget the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more and register for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself with so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

For Montu’s free digital book:

Web: https://www.dhillonrealtysystems.ca/

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 
 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/

Building a 7 Figure, 100 Unit Airbnb Business By Age 27 With Avery Birch

Hello, Real Estate and Stock investors, AKA Wealth Hackers!

How’s your summer going? Best summer since 2019?  I hope so. 

Cherry and I are having a blast and have much to be grateful for.

One of our Accounting clients, a power couple tearing things up in the multifamily space, invited us to Sherkston Shore, a private summer resort of vacation properties on the beach, for fun in the sun and a catered BBQ dinner back at their house in the resort.

 
 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Erwin Szeto (@erwinszeto)

The day was awesome for many reasons. 

Other than hanging out outdoors, Cherry and I got to meet and network with some movers and shakers from the Keyspire community, real estate investors with 40-400 unit portfolios and growing.

I’m usually socially awkward at these types of events when I don’t know anyone, but we all had real estate in common, so it was cool to mix family, fun, business and learning.  

Hopefully, I wasn’t too prying with all my questions; I’m naturally inquisitive and firmly believe learning is through listening, not speaking, and getting invited to more Keyspire meetups… So much fun to learn, yet so little time.  

I hope you’re all maximizing your summer and time as it’s the most precious resource. 

Building a 7 Figure, 100 Unit Airbnb Business By Age 27 With Avery Birch

Seeing how much folks are travelling these days, a trend I expect to continue, how do real estate investors capitalize?  

Well, today, we just so happen to have an Airbnb expert who manages 100 doors for Airbnb use and only owns one of them, a 250-acre property he’s going to develop into a vacation resort. Wait till you hear the numbers; they will astound you!

I met Avery Birch at a conference in Quebec City a few months ago. Having real estate in common and 7-figure entrepreneurs, we connected right away.

Do you see what extent I go to to bring you, my 17 listeners, interesting guests?

Since covid restrictions loosened, I’ve really enjoyed getting back out there and networking with like-minded investors and entrepreneurs.  

If you’re looking for the next can’t-miss conference, you’ll want to save the date, Saturday, November 12th, all day for the Wealth Hacker Conference, live and in-person near the airport with plenty of free parking.  

We’ve hired speakers and sponsors for everything you need for your most efficient path to your financial goals so you may have more freedom with how you spend your time: building your own business, retirement, travel, etc.

After interviewing Avery, maybe I’ll diversify a bit into AirBNB because with all the experience Avery shares today in operating 100 Airbnbs, we get an insider’s look into which Airbnbs offer the highest returns, and it’s not what you think. 

Please enjoy the show. 

 

This episode is brought to you by me! We don’t have sponsors for this show, I only share with you services owned by my wife Cherry and I.  Real estate investing is a staple in my life and allowed me to build wealth and more importantly, achieve financial peace about the future knowing our retirement is taken care of and my kids will be able to afford a home when they grow up.  If you too are interested in my systematic strategy to implement the #1 investment strategy, the same one pretty much all my guests are doing themselves, then go visit www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for our next FREE Online Training Class.  We will be back in person once legally allowed to do so but for now we are 100% virtual.

No need for you to reinvent the wheel, we have our system down pat. Again that’s  www.infinitywealth.ca/events and register for the FREE Online Training Class.

 

This episode is also brought to you www.stockhackeracademy.ca where everyday real estate investors learn the best practices in stock investing to earn cash flow in about 15-30 mins per day from their mobile phones. After real estate, Stock Hacking is the next best hustle as you’ve heard from many past guests on this show. Among our students last year, 31 trades were shared with them. 30 were profitable for an over 96% success rate and 12% return on capital. I will be giving free demonstrations online, very similar to the one I gave my kid cousin, a full time musician and he just made 50% return in 2021.  Past of course does not predict the future but if you’d like a free demonstration go to www.stockhackeracademy.ca in the top right, click FREE Demo.  At the demonstration I’ll have special bonuses. We do not advertise publicly for all my favourite listeners and I only have two more demos to give in the next few weeks.

Don’t delay www.stockhackeracademy.ca, what I consider the future of side hustles with real estate so unaffordable for many.

 

We’re hiring!

Just a friendly reminder that we are hiring more investment Realtors who want a full-time challenge to help our clients, regular everyday people, mostly from the GTA, invest in the top investment towns west of the GTA. 

This is for driven folks who want to multiply their current incomes.

APPLY HERE: https://www.infinitywealth.ca/hiring

 

To Listen:

Audio Transcript

**Transcripts are auto-generated.

 

Erwin  

Greetings everyone, real estate investors and stock investors, aka wealth hackers, as I like to call them, How’s your summer going? Best summer since 2019. I certainly help So Jerry and I are having a blast and have much to be grateful for one of our accounting clients AJ Callen and Manpreet Hendra superpower, a couple, I think, most know, AJ is retired engineer, and he went full time in real estate, and around the mid round, 2015 ish. And Manpreet is extremely popular real estate lawyer. She’s done some of our deals. We’ve referred her clients in the past. They are a super power couple, and they’re tearing things up in the multifamily space. No surprise there. Everyone in the spire knows them. They invited us to I don’t know why. They invited us as little plugs Jerry and I, my family and my kids. They invited us to search the shore, which is a private 500 property, summer resort, and they’re all vacation properties. So it’s a three season resort. None of these properties are winterized. Some of them are trailers, some of these are telling trailer park but a bit nicer a lot of these houses are quite nicely renovated, including AJ Manpreet, has quite nicely renovated their properties not quite on the beach, but we met on the beach, there is a beach within this rich summer resort for some fun in the sun, and a catered BBQ dinner back at their house, which is also within their resort. They’re celebrating their 10th anniversary, and party and style. Because it’s kind of like we’re partying like it’s 2019. With COVID restrictions a lot reduced, the entire thing is done outdoors. So that’s very nice. The day was awesome for many reasons other than of course hanging out doors. Cheering I get to meet and network with some movers and shakers from the keestrack community real estate investors with like as little as 40 doors to 400 doors and growing. Normally, I’m pretty socially awkward at these types of events, like regular, you know, regular like weddings and anniversary parties, where I don’t know anyone. But in this case, we all had real estate in common. So it was cool to mix. Family Fun. And kids are they’re going to beach and join the barbecue joints.

 

Erwin  

At this resort, and pretty much all the property owners own one or two golf carts. So my kids and I took a Jays actually is actually we took Manpreet Sacco cart, golf cart for a ride. It’s a bit nicer than your typical golf cart. Anyways, I posted on my Facebook, but it’s fun to combine family and fun and business and learning. Hopefully it wasn’t prying with all my questions. I asked a lot of these investors a lot of questions what they’re up to what are they seeing opportunity, as I’m naturally inquisitive, as you can probably tell from the show. And I firmly firmly believe that learning is through listening that speaking. That’s why you don’t see me speaking much and letting the people who know what they’re doing talk and hopefully I get invited Marquis buyer meetups, it was a lot of fun to learn a lot and so little time. Hopefully, you’re all out there maximising your summer in time, as time is your most precious resource. See how much folks are travelling these days to try and extract to continue? As I record Airbnb reports, their earnings today, it’s August 2, I imagine they’re going to kill it. And just from experience and talking to other Airbnb investors, they’re all pretty booked. So it sounds like yeah, travel travel is is hot these days and I expect the trend to continue. So how do real estate investors capitalise? Well today it just so happens we have an Airbnb expert who manages 100 doors for Airbnb use, and only owns one Wildling ones one of those properties. The other 99 are not owned by him. He manages them for other landlords. Avery actually recently bought a 250 acre property, he’s going to develop into a vacation resort, similar ideas where I was just talking about insurance in the shirts an example. But wait to hear the numbers. They will astound you. I’m at Avery birch at a conference in New Mexico just a few months ago, I was having real estate in common and being filled with seven figure entrepreneurs we connected right away. So we’ve been we’ve been texting we’ve been chatting our zoom booked with them I think tomorrow as well to just chat about some other business opportunities. But do you see what extent I go to to bring you my 17 listeners interesting guests. Every is definitely interesting. Ever since COVID, restrictions loosened. I’ve been enjoying going back to conferences and networking events with like minded investors and entrepreneurs. So if you’re looking for the next camp Miss conference, you’ll want to save the date, Saturday, November 12. All day for the wealth hacker conference live and in person, there’s no zoom option. There’s no virtual option near the airport with plenty of free parking, just go to www dot while hacker.ca for details. And also if you’re following me on social media or on my email list, you’ll see opportunities for no save money. We have promos running from time to time, but the truth about the conference pricing, the sooner you buy, the more you save, because the prices will just consistently go up until the date of the event. And if you’re one of those who likes the VIP experience, those tickets will sell out. So you probably wanna take advantage of cheaper prices and making sure you actually get a ticket so you avoid disappointment. We’ve hired speakers and sponsors for all the things that you need to be on the most efficient path to your financial goals. So you may have more freedom in your life, and how you spend your time to be building your own business or folio, to be retirement to be travel, whatever it is, you’re going to take away some have some takeaways from the conference wealth hacker.ca for details after interviewing Avery, maybe I’ll diversify into Airbnb a bit because with all the experience every shares today and operating 100 Airbnb s, we get an insider’s look into what which property style. For me, Airbnb offers the highest return, including what every avoids. And also he shares a story about how he identified properties to start managing for, especially for younger investors out there who don’t have a lot of capital. Again, Avery does not own the vast majority of the properties he manages. So he actually gives some tips on how he got started. And I don’t see why anyone and young hustler cannot do the same. Please enjoy the show. 

 

Erwin  

Hi Avery what’s keeping you busy these days. 

 

Avery  

What keeps me busy running a skid steer, building roads that are new property. 

 

Erwin  

Okay, I’m cityfolk explain what that means. 

 

Avery  

I am running this piece of equipments to build roads, because in 11 days, we have our grand opening for our adventure getaway resort. I don’t know if the video is clear, but got about 300 acres of wilderness and a lake and trying to get people in to see it. 

 

Erwin  

Alright, so the shameless plug, we do have a YouTube channel, folks. So if you want to see every we are doing this video, and Avery’s background is stunning. So check it out on our YouTube channel as well. So every what it is in your background. 

 

Avery  

So what we’re looking at behind me is I’m standing on the peak of a mountain overlooking a lake. And we’re looking at Raw Nova Scotian wilderness is about 40 minutes away from the main city and just untouched forest. What we’re trying to promote get people outdoors. 

 

Erwin  

Sounds amazing. Okay, so we are Canadians. Everybody that listens to this show. What’s the main city Halifax? What is it? 

 

Avery  

Yeah, we’re based out of Halifax, Nova Scotia. 

 

Erwin  

And I love Halifax. It’s funny, because like when talking to people, oh, we’re asking people about travel, like, Oh, I’m going to Nova Scotia. And like, that’s very much like leaving the country it’s like from from Ontario. It is it’s very different colours are totally different, like car stop for pedestrians. 

 

Avery  

That is it’s funny. We’re trained at a very young age to do that. And so that’s why it keeps working. 

 

Erwin  

Yeah. And so yeah. Again, I love Nova Scotia, I love vibe. So we got introduced through a mutual friend at a conference. So we both members of entrepreneurs organisation, for those who don’t know, just stating facts, and I hate to brag about anything, members of entrepreneurs organisation are required to have a seven figure business US dollars. So that’s a million dollars of revenue US per year. And every built the master pretty sizable, real estate business. Can you tell us more about it? 

 

Avery  

Absolutely. We’ve been operating for about five and a half years at this point. And over the course of this time, and through a pandemic, we’ve become the number one and the largest air b&b operator in Nova Scotia, in Atlantic Canada. And along the way, we’ve now grown to have 100 different properties under our management’s and we’ve got about a staff of 20 people that run the show. Now we’re growing into developing, which is why I’m standing on the peak of a mountain because it’s the only way to get cell service, but we’ve moved from managing and to creating. 

 

Erwin  

Okay, so we’ll get into the development because I want to get into it. But I want to know, folks understand how you would dig into managing 100 different properties. So you own all these properties. 

 

Avery  

We don’t own any of the properties. I’m one of them. Well, we just got one. Wonderful 100 Okay, got it. Yeah, no, we don’t own anything. We have either management contracts with the people who own the spaces, or we’ll take on commercial leases in the right zoned areas and turn them into essentially a boutique hotel. But we’re essentially catering to people that come into the city for seven days to 20 days. That’s our typical. 

 

Erwin  

So what’s gets gets covered in the news is often you know, we’re a tenant, like a regular tenant will sign a lease for the landlord. And then without the owner knowing the operating Airbnb, is that what you accomplished? You duped 100 homeowners into renting out to you and you convert them into Airbnb? 

 

Avery  

I wish I was that interesting. No. Yeah, I hear that story a lot. To get our very first property I would say I wasn’t very exact with what my intentions were. However, once So I had that one, I could point to it for all the ones to come and say, Look, we’re successful. This is what I plan to do, please let me do this. And then later, I’ve become very close friends with the person who gave us the very first property. So we’re all good. But yeah, it was a it was an interesting start. And then from there, we’re 100%. aboveboard, and landlords love us because we are just super, super diligent. So we treat their spaces, like nobody else does. sort of funny. 

 

Erwin  

What’s the terminology for this? There’s all these new terms like house hacking, for example, I only learned like two years ago. Is there a common term for this? 

 

Avery  

Yeah, in in the short term rental space called Master lease. So you Google that master lease, short term rentals, you can learn all sorts of things about it. Essentially, we get a lease furnish rent for a markup, we’re catering to clientele that need to be in for different things that a year. Interesting. 

 

Erwin  

Okay. Okay, just to put out a joke because it’s in my head, I have to say it is in real estate here. Master bedroom is no longer the master bedroom. So that’s the principal or the primary bedroom. So maybe, maybe you and I here, we’ll we’ll start the term primary lease. Funny, James, yeah, let’s do it. He managed to start promoting it. We have primary leases. And then you’ll coined the terms. 

 

Avery  

I sort of like that, like in pitch and saying, Yeah, we’re the primary lease holder. And here’s what we do. That’s great. Thank you probably like that. 

 

Erwin  

Yeah, it’s very politically correct. Because we’re inclusive on this show. The capitalist socialist, we love them all here. As much as him today. What is the typical property is their typical property? Are you talking about apartment buildings? 30 units are you talking about like single family homes that on you know, on Main Street, Halifax,

 

Avery  

Anything go? The only one that we don’t touch is condos. Some cities as we’ve looked to scale out our condo cities and some cities, our apartment cities, for instance, Calgary is primarily condos and Halifax is primarily apartments, they’re completely flipped of each other. So well touch apartments will touch single family will touch duplexes, basically anything but condos is everything. And they each have different things we looked at, and we’ve got tools that we’ve analysed, but every different property has a different strategy. And what we start seeing over time is that different properties, they only have only so many buckets that we fit into. So once we’ve developed the strategy for X, when we see x come along, again, we just rinse and repeat. Yeah, I think that’s a good answer to that. 

 

Erwin  

Tell me about Okay, so what would you do like a regular single family home? And a Suburban? Or actually, do you have a preference? Do you prefer a more urban setting, or suburban or rural, or you probably have a model for each, don’t you? 

 

Avery  

Yeah. It’s in different growth cycles of the business where the preference has changed. At this point. In our lifespan, we’re now looking for very unique combinations, something that we can truly put our mark on, and no one else can duplicate. In the past, we’ve really focused on commodity I think Airbnb fell into two buckets, commodity, and once or niche. So for a commodity, there’s no brand loyalty, except to Airbnb or VRBO, the platform, but that we’re a brand within a brand. There’s no loyalty for commodities, people need to be in the city, therefore, it will stay busy supply just always comes, it never stops. Unless there’s a pandemic, then we’re gonna get scrappy, or niches and once like what we’re building, it’s not a commodity. People don’t need to be here, they will wants to be here. Therefore, loyalty means people come back, because it’s unique. So there’s two buckets that we really look at. I don’t know how he got here. But fun fact, 

 

Erwin  

That’s just a good point. But the journey like you didn’t know what the journey would look like from the beginning. 

 

Avery  

No. One, like, let’s get five. Let’s get 25. Let’s get to 50. And then before you knew it, okay, I think the idea of what we’re doing now, 

 

Erwin  

Interesting, other than condos, is there any other property style that you don’t want, 

 

Avery  

There’s no style, it doesn’t work. It just comes down to working with your neighbours and the rules on the environment. So condos have the most challenging environments, therefore, we don’t even look at it. There’s so much opportunity that there’s no need for us to ever spend time there. You can you can run a condo it just takes extra work that we don’t want to do. 

 

Erwin  

Right? Yeah, cuz it’s, I live near Toronto. So it’s a big, it’s all condo people want to do it, but it’s because they want they can’t cashflow otherwise, but then your neighbours are not happy. 

 

Avery  

Yeah, it’s it’s extra work. Whereas in the park building, it goes through the management and they make a call. So when we come in and build a great relationship, we’re there won’t take. And we’re starting to get into a situation where we’ve asked to say we’ll take a whole floor. And that keeps it nice and separate versus an apartment building next door can be frustrating. So getting addition of doing a whole floor or a whole building, got it, the game changer total game changer, then we have complete oversight. And it’s really helps. 

 

Erwin  

That makes a lot of sense. Because for example, if I’m on a guy’s trip, and we know we’re going to be rowdy, we’ll ask the hotel when we book our rooms to be put in a section where no one else is. You’re trying to do the same thing you’re trying to isolate. That’s a great idea, right? I’m an empathetic person, right? When I want my sleep, I want my sleep, I don’t want to be disturbed. So please put us somewhere where we’re not going to bother anyone else. 

 

Avery  

And if you said that to us, we would know exactly where to put you. No one ever says that that’s actually very polite, 

 

Erwin  

At least a checkbox you put in like you’re putting in maybe one of your forms. We do you need a place where you can be loud. four acre property where the the nearest neighbours half a mile away. 

 

Avery  

Oh, I’m gonna add that’s incredible. You need to be loud. There’ll be a checkbox. 

 

Erwin  

And maybe just be a group that you like, oh, sorry, we have nothing for you. Quiet or network? It’s like a filter for like parties that you know. So you don’t want them? Actually, can you do cater for party? Do you have any options for that?

 

Avery  

We don’t, it’s not our bread and butter. And some of our research along the way. We found some really cool spaces that do. And they can charge a premium. The one that I’ll never forget, as I saw one in Montreal when we were looking at growth there. And it said party pad and, and like the walls were stainless steel and the rest was tile. It looked like at the end of each reservation, they came in with a friggin pressure washer. And just spray the whole place that like it like it was expensive. But it was like it was geared for parties. It’s like a bachelor pad place. I don’t know if Halifax would support that. Maybe just not a bread and butter. 

 

Erwin  

And then this seems like a pretty hot topic or hot button issue for people to who are avoiding doing short term rentals. And then also always, it often makes headlines as well. How do you prevent it? And when I’m trying to find party? I mean like excessive drinking, excessive substance abuse, excessive noise and property damage, of course. Yeah, sure, sure. But I’m talking about like, you know, five people having a beer watching hockey night in Canada. disrespecting disrespecting the state. Yeah, yeah, actually, as literally on the golf course. Yesterday, I was asked on the golf pro about they ever have problems. Yeah, we call the cops like, what are people doing? Excessive drinking, reckless driving with the golf carts. These things happen. 

 

Avery  

I think it depends on the location, we’re mostly focused around commodity. At this point, we’re just starting to build out niche. I suspect we’re gonna have more of that, now that we’re diving into that market. But if it was a golf course, that to me is not commodity that is niche. So probably more people have means that want to have parties will probably go versus on the commodity side. It’s because people need it, they’re not going on a party, they might be relocating moving into the country there temporarily as a student, very few people come to our spaces to just have a weekend away, only in peak season. But there’s two things that really keep parties are people who disrespect the space away price and minimum stay requirements. That was a game changer. When we’ve had we’ve had problems in the past. There’s got to be at least one. And it’s almost like clockwork, but I think we might have snapped the habit. It was like once once every year for four years in a row was a bagel, drug party. And we’d have to go and it’s like, it was like clockwork, yeah, there it is. All right, do the thing. We got used to it, but never any damage, very respectful people in Nova Scotia, they just wanted to have their time. However, they became loud and disruptive. So we had to kick them out. There’s rules around that if you wanted to dive into that subject, but you can get bring the police in, they’re not actually a tenant. So they’re a guest in your house means you can forcibly remove them, etc, etc. So there’s mitigation. But why that happens over and over and over was price. It was in the winter, when we were most eager to get bookings. And we lowered the floor too low. And that allowed it to be something attractive for let’s say, if the space was $100 You know, for people chip that is 25 bucks. So don’t be the lowest priced in the market. It’s not it’s just not 

 

Erwin  

That’s actually wonderful advice. 

 

Avery  

That’s the biggest takeaway. 

 

Erwin  

And that’s pretty much all you need to do the screen 

 

Avery  

Yeah, price in there’s other things too. Okay. Another one other big screening test. think that our managers use is if someone is reserving a space within our city limits, like if it says they’re from Halifax? Well, they better give us a good reason as to what they’re doing. And we’ll actually meet them on checking, just to make sure the argument or anybody else is not from Halifax. It’s all automated check in. You’re coming here from Arkansas, you know, you probably need to be here. But if you’re if you’re from Halifax for one weekend, and like, I don’t know, I don’t think we believe you. So that’s a very small percentage. But those those two things price and anyone in the local area meet on check in and if they’re carrying bottles of vodka, and we’ve actually caught people in the process and say, no, no, you’re not doing it, you can cancel and give your money back. Just leave. Okay. 

 

Erwin  

And there’s no recourse for them to like, leave like a one star review or something like that. 

 

Avery  

They know what they mean. Sure, anybody can do that. But in these scenarios, people know what they’re doing. They’re having a party, anything that people who have had party, other spaces have lived the best reviews because they felt that which is sort of funny. Hey, we know we were really ridiculous to deal with. So you did great five stars. 

 

Erwin  

Okay, I think there’s a Nova Scotia thing. I don’t think it’ll happen Ontario. 

 

Avery  

It’s East Coast hospitality. I think.

 

Erwin  

That’s hilarious. It’s funny, because I booked an Airbnb for Ottawa recently. And I know I understand their concern. So they ask the audio in town for like, I’m here. I’m coming from from Toronto, with my living staying with my wife, my videographer, and we’re here for business, taking some meetings. You know, I’m 40 plus years old. Feel free to Google my name. You know, I’m not a partier. I didn’t say that. Right. I didn’t say I’m not a partier. I think that’s probably a red herring. 

 

Avery  

Or something I just thought of. And one thing that’s always stuck with me, for anybody who’s listening that wants to get into the Airbnb space, or was already in it, and has had a very unfortunate booking where people have been disrespectful, the percentage of that happening is so small. Anybody who’s experienced that as an individual property owner, or maybe two, it’s just, it’s just bad chance that roll the dice because we’ve got 100 units, we have one incident in your 99% just fine. So like 99.5% Fine. So anybody who gets one stays just truly unlucky. 

 

Erwin  

This is all fascinating. Okay, if you don’t know how much time you have, I have a lot more questions. I’ll ramble. Okay, question around management, then. Have you ever had a short term person stay in cause damage, and you’ve had to go back to them to get money? 

 

Avery  

Yeah, it’s always small things never anything big. And you just do it through the resolution centre, Airbnb, though, they’ll cover it, you’ll always get it somehow. The larger the cost, the more annoying you have to follow up with Airbnb, but it’s all quite easy. And when it comes back, this might take some time. 

 

Erwin  

Maybe it’s a cultural thing. I’m just impressed how little problems you’ve had, or it’s just good screening. 

 

Avery  

I, I don’t know when you probably do have problems. I’ve just I’ve built a good team. We’ve got good processes, and we’re just diligent, so it might just be Halifax is a very special place. Yeah. It’s pretty smooth, very smooth. 

 

Erwin  

For someone looking to start a to say the same wants to do Airbnb their own property. What do they need to start with? 

 

Avery  

Find a place that is absolutely fine to places. dishevelled that is not nice that is not put together but no, seriously. The places that are nice means there’s demand means the landlords have power and why would they trust you places that are just shovelled means they’re not in demand. And if you come along, making an offer, let’s actually get looked at and typically place people who have to shovel places or small mom and pop landlords that you can actually have a conversation with the decision maker. So grab a dishevelled spot for a low rent, and then paint it. We used to not paint spaces because I don’t think I’d get the cost out of there. But you sign say, hey, I want a two year lease on this spot. You can get the value back from that painting. So painted, decorated really well celebrated works in your listing, and you’ll make the best margin and you’ll be able to get your foot in the door right away. Do not go premium to start I made that mistake. 

 

Erwin  

I think I’ve made that mistake too. By everybody was nice. 

 

Avery  

My very first face was dishevelled but we quickly after thought we need to go premium. So I did start with the dishevelled space and then looking back at it. That was the best decision now we do it time and time again we look for places that are not perfect. Because we get a good deal. We have a good conversation and it just goes longer now will sound like five year lease. someplace, 

 

Erwin  

Right, but I’m thinking whether the dishevelled place like, the landscaping will likely need a lot of work as well. And that’s something you’ll take care of a typical dishevelled property, especially rental properties. And this is why neighbours often don’t like rental properties is the light, like, for example, the landscaping has been taken care of. So that’s something you’d take care of as well take care of it. 

 

Avery  

Our goal is, we never want to talk to the landlord, we run the property as if it was our own. So we’ve got we’ll bring in landscaping, bring in all the cleaning, we’ve got our own maintenance, like if we’ve got a problem, we just deal with it. And then after the fact that here’s some stuff we’ve paid for, and we get some of this back. No, well, all right, we make the margin we need and to serve as our customers, it’s a cost of doing business. That’s how this up for a while it’s it’s not looking at who I was what, just at the end of the day, this is the business, we have the space to maintain it. If it cost us it’s unfortunate, but the margin is still plenty, 

 

Erwin  

Just to clarify, is looking for to show a property are you still looking for in good neighbourhoods? 

 

Avery  

Ah, whatever the data supports, neighbourhood doesn’t matter. Right? Okay, there’s a there’s a customer for every neighbourhood.

 

Erwin  

This is cool. Like he every I find a lot people meet again, myself, I’m I my decisions are largely data driven, versus people are largely emotional motional decisions like, again, like I have a realtor business, I’ve worked with people on the ground, and I’m showing people invest in properties. And people will say, I don’t like the kitchen, I don’t think this is a good investment property. Right? Something something like that. I don’t like the colour of the countertop, and like, but they don’t understand, like, you’re not the customer, you’re not the one who’s gonna be renting it, I know you’re buying it, you aren’t a customer that way. But your your audience for the for who’s gonna be paying you rent, right? 

 

Avery  

So they should be looking at the numbers versus how the kitchen is spit out. That’s yeah, they’re not the one buying the kitchen. 

 

Erwin  

Exactly every piece of real estate ever I ever look at or recommend to a client is because it’s it’s all data driven decision, all I see is ones and zeros and dollar signs. Right? I don’t care about anything else. Like it. Obviously, there’s soft parts of it, like how I judge a quality safe neighbourhood with nice neighbours and stuff like that. But again, all I see dollar signs behind that is I don’t know if it’s a nice neighbourhood scenario, nice school and get more rent. So again, it comes down to $1. Figure. 

 

Avery  

So there is a platform for that, that we use that anybody listening, listening, who hasn’t looked it up, just make data driven decisions. There’s a company called Air DNA, we’ve all used it. If you haven’t use it, I should get some promo from this company. I’ve recommended them to everybody. But it’s the only way you make decisions, you just literally can type in the address. And it will spit out comparables, it’ll show you a seasonality chart tells you exactly how much you’re gonna make by making this type of listing. So just you run the cost this much will make this much. Here’s the neighbourhood. Okay. And your work? 

 

Erwin  

Yeah, I’ve used air DNA as well, or dna.co. So erdene.co is a great for that as well. I paid for it as well. So I’ve used it fully. I actually find it pretty helpful. Just even just go look at to serve your neighbourhood for me. VRBO and to see what kind of availability they have as well. 

 

Avery  

Yeah, and it’s funny you can you can surf and see how much your neighbour is making on their property because it tells you it scrapes the data and says this property is making this much funny when you can see oh, no, I know our neighbours making 70 grand on their basement suite. Interesting. Interesting. Fun to know. 

 

Erwin  

Yeah. And then, obviously, the term the marketing terms hack, I’ll dig into why they get more rent than I do. I’ll go through their listing and understand try to understand what features they have. And maybe that’s why they get more rent than I do. For example, your friend of mine. He has vacation properties in Niagara Falls, and his his niche his go to strategies hot tubs. Yeah. All right. That sounds good all on Tom’s, I believe he said that his properties get double the rental income of properties that don’t have hot tubs within his own portfolio. So he’s you better believe he’s getting a hot tub for every property even though it means his maintenance costs go up, his cleaning costs go up. But the rents are more than covered. 

 

Avery  

That’s actually a strategy of vacation. The world’s largest short term rental manager. They have a hot tub programme, where if you want a hot tub it your stays, they will pay for it cashflow it, and take it off your monthly earnings until it’s paid for. So they know how well hot tubs work that they’ll put their money where their mouth is and they’ll buy it and then you pay it back. increases revenue by 30% on average. 30% Wow. Market dependent Yeah, it was also steady but hot tubs which ones do the best and near colder areas, mountains and activity doesn’t make the same effect in a city or hot places of course. So if he’s in the mountains, the absolutely like if you’re at a ski if you’re at a ski hill and you’re like a hot tub isn’t SVP of activity called M mountains. So it’s not triple whammy. 

 

Erwin  

I have this FOMO issue. I feel I feel like I’m just questions I’m not asking. I’m sure my listeners really have a full, full of questions as well. And David asked this question, 

 

Avery  

Then travelling with some of the really hard part is done some of the hardest ones that you will learn anywhere else. No, actually ever, ever, ever, ever did. 

 

Erwin  

To me. It’s a ridiculous story. So I just got back from Belleville, which is like, to me the vibe was like Niagara than the lake east of Toronto, right? We rented out a shack, they literally called the The Shack, they were very transparent what it was. And when we got to the property, my friend booked it. So I had no idea I was finding out when I saw the property. So it was actually the original house on the property. They’ve since the owners have since built a beautiful custom home, it’s probably over 3000 square feet with a pool and beautiful head of another house on the property as well. That was probably the second house that was built on the property. We’re living in the original. I was on the property tiny, it being called really as a one plus one one bedroom. And the attic was finished and had four bedrooms, the place including the attic, under 700 square foot for sure. As the kitchen has a bathroom, low ceilings, whatever. We paid $460 for the night. Literally a shack. 

 

Avery  

It’s amazing what will go if the value is there. I don’t know what the value. But you had a shack in the woods that is a customer Hey, work for you. 

 

Erwin  

And for that market, there was nothing else that was actually the last property available at market. It was just there. Nothing else specifically, it’s just Prince Edward County. So there was nothing else the demand was just that high. Because like Niagara on the Lake is the weekend. I stayed at a hotel the night before all the hotels were sold out. The vacation demand was just that crazy. So it wasn’t like actually spectacular, but it was more so supply driven. That’s what I would say. I think some people would think that’s a nice experience. When I saw the place like, yes, we’re in the middle of the country, the lake is you know, 100 metre walk away. Right? But when I first started like, you know, let’s go back to the hotel, just by the highway. But again, I’m not their target customer, obviously. But they got their money. So I’m very impressed get on them. I’m a social capitalist. So you got that money get on you. You are in debt. You are in debt. Like I don’t feel robbed by any means. If this is the last place available to rent, you burned it. All right. I don’t know what my point was. But there’s to your point about niche. I actually think some people would have liked this experience like a rustic experience. And like for example, I want my kids to like the cottages my my kids see these days are all a fully renovated. It’s not like for my generation when When did I friend’s cottage is when I was growing up? You know, the shock and awe of it? Yeah, like for example, the walls between bedrooms wouldn’t go all the way to the roofline, right? Oh, yeah. That’s whatever. Right? You know, I mean, so there’s basically no division between rooms really, you can hear everything. You know, I mean, that was my that was my context for cottages. You know, they’re not winterized. Like the heating is done through a wood stove. There is no gas furnace, there is no air conditioning. Am I right? Is there a market there is a market for this experience 

 

Avery  

Making a big comeback pandemic ignited it’s and it was strong before. So what makes going anywhere, but it puts tremendous pressure on the space, local travel and whatnot. But that’s what we’re doing. We’re we’re building these tiny, you think 700 square feet small. We’re doing 200 hanging, just to get away in the woods. Our nightly rate is much less to get away.

 

Erwin  

Okay, yes. Tell us about the development are your 200 square foot. What? 

 

Avery  

Oh, cabinets. It’s a small cabin. winterized. It’s got a propane stove on the inside. Right off of the lake comes with hot tub comes with hiking trails, or wheeling. It’s just it’s an adventure getaway. So it’s not so much the space and the size of the space that matters. It’s what value does the person get for being there? One thing that inspired me for just how simple things can be is I once read the story five years ago that someone built an igloo. And what’s the park in New York again, the main one central park, Central Park, they built an igloo in Central Park, put it on Airbnb for $16 a night. And they had customers it sold out instantly. It’s like, Oh, that’s great. It’s you could do any anything. They took snow from a park that wasn’t theirs. And they said come on in. We’re open for business. That’s amazing. So we got shut down after a week but you know, they made 600 bucks. So there we go. Great. It’s again, it’s not the space. It’s the Experience, space is just a vessel to have the experience. We’re building tiny combinations, building glamping accommodations, like Safari tents with really nice furnishings, nice stove inside. And what it comes down to is all the amenities that we get. So our turnkey costs for Safari tent is around 5500 set up, and then in peak season, they will turn out 4040 500. So basically pays itself off in about 40 days, retirement, right. And then the rest is product. So we can invest that profit into the property and the amenities. And that’s what we’re doing here. It’s essentially a place for people to get out of the city, unwind, kick back, relax, and then get back to do what they do best. So try to peel back the onion and prove people’s life. 

 

Erwin  

This is wild. Because again, you have because why I want to talk to you just again, you have a large data sample to draw from to make your decisions and to share on the show with our listeners are 17 listeners. Yeah, no one listens to the show. By the way. I don’t know why you drink. What do you decide to come on? I just like talking to you. So you could have done anything. And this is what you’ve chosen to put your own your own money into. Yeah, you start off you started off pretty early in the podcasting. Like you want you want Unique and this sounds very unique. And there’s no ski hill, nothing like that. It is just like that’s coming in your screens. Sorry. You’re saying go build a ski hill. 

 

Avery  

It’s gonna be one run, it’s gonna be just for me. But yes, buildings. We’re gonna pump from that lake and put the water onto this. And then go snowboarding. But just for me 

 

Erwin  

What I mean just for you, okay, so your your intake, your ATV up the hill are tearing it up the hill. 

 

Avery  

I’ve seen these things on YouTube where people can, I can make an electric winch setup for like 5000 bucks, you can pull me up. I don’t need a lift. I don’t need a fancy tow rope. I just need a motor and a pulley. And then you’re done. So I $1,000 I can get up there. 

 

Erwin  

We’ll just be able to use this. 

 

Avery  

Yeah, once we work the safety part out because I don’t think $5,000 winch is very safe. So maybe, maybe we’ll invest a bit more but it’s starting for me. And then soon yes, we’re doing a Nordic Spa here. We’re doing rock climbing, skiing, all sorts of things. 

 

Erwin  

Nordic Spas are like really hot here. 

 

Avery  

Like everywhere, everywhere. So the one secret sauce that we’re looked at is not exposed kill it happens in the woods kill it. And activity arcs kill it. Why aren’t all these three things in one place? We’re doing sounds like it’s gonna be like a bachelorette Haven. Oh, yeah. So you held your whole and Bakmi real Why am I bringing this up? Well serve all kinds of people, people who want private we can put over there. And people who want not private can go over there. This is this is this is huge. It’s like 300 acres over here. Looks like a screensaver back to the checkbox and said do you want noise? Yes, you want no and no. 

 

Erwin  

One thing that drives you bonkers but nor exposes you have Be quiet. Yeah, so actually going to what’s called a banya. I’ve never been to one of these before. I’m going to pick up some Russian thing. Apologies for my ignorance the listeners might have one of our 17 listeners actually knows what I’m talking about. But yeah, like the Russian spa, where you are allowed to talk and socialise and even have an adult beverage like sauna in and like hot and cold treatments whenever. And then my own experience. I’ve been calling Collingwood in Ontario, which is the private best ski is the biggest public ski resort in Ontario. It’s a massive bachelorette destination is Blue Mountain. Yes, Blue Mountains, a massive bachelorette destination in the summer. And the wishes are off season because the Nordic Spas and quote unquote, mountains that’s Ontario. It’s not it’s not mountains, like out east or west or Alberta. But yeah, it’s mountains. And yeah. And it’s it’s an hour from the city, but they draw and they charge ridiculous amounts of money and they’re busy. Yeah. So I imagined that can’t be the same for you.

 

Avery  

You know, there’s actually really, you’re totally right. And thank you. This is a fun. There’s this conversation around reoccurring revenue. Building a business around reoccurring revenue is the smartest way to build a strong company. And for the longest time, I started searching everywhere else to think how can I have a company that has recurring and someone made it evidently aware to me that we do have a reoccurring revenue business, but it only really gets activated in the niche part, not the commodity part. Because we built the space that is accommodating, affordable, and people keep coming back over and over and over. So with that knowledge we’ve considered maybe we had a subscription or something but Airbnbs can be reoccurring. revenue, which is an incredible investment. 

 

Erwin  

Fascinating. And then Okay, so for the novice explain, why not just build your own platform, have your own website and do all your bookings on your own on your own e business business whenever. Versus why would why would you host on Airbnb like, for example, what is Airbnb? What do you have to pay? What do you have to pay to Airbnb? 

 

Avery  

Airbnb bills the customer, not the host. And unique way that we don’t really feel it. But they’re marking it up 10 to 14% sort of theory, no explanation, but we never see it. So it doesn’t feel it doesn’t hurt. We don’t see it. We don’t hear it. We don’t feel it. So I just don’t, it doesn’t even happen. Other booking platforms like booking.com bills, the house. So we actually get an invoice saying, hey, this money, it feels different. Airbnb did something right in their design, that it’s a no brainer. And for the novice, the big lesson, I learned years back that led to my growth to come here was sell in bulk. Don’t sell individually, you’re going to spend the same amount of time might as well sell in bulk. Airbnb is the world’s largest platform, Wi Fi. I’m not trying to win that race. So work with them. Well, let’s do better. 

 

Erwin  

And what was your experience with the other platforms like VRBO, for example? 

 

Avery  

Yeah, we started on Airbnb natively. And afterwards wanted to bring another business depends on what their DNA again gets the demographics of where the buyers are coming from. Most buyers in Canada are Airbnb, the largest holding of VRBO is us. And booking.com is European. So depending upon what customers are coming to your market, you might want to consider those two channels from our experience. So we went through setting up on booking and VRBO and Expedia and these other ones, it really became so clear why Airbnb became a unicorn. They made it easy. And the others made it unfortunately, complicated for no reason. No reason. So that’s the difference. Airbnb is just effortless. And that’s why it took off. 

 

Erwin  

So okay, I have a lot of questions. There’s actually a question I miss. Apologies for coming back to it. So for your business, I’m sure people who want to start this business I’m sure they’re wondering, how do I convince a homeowner property owner to rent to me? That’s a good one. Like what kind of shirt use do you give them? Like? Because again, I’m sure the same people have read the same headlines. You know, see, you want to Airbnb you want to do? What’s my property? It’s gonna be bachelor parties and your people puking throwing the tech to the window, kinda like all those stories to get around student rentals as well. 

 

Avery  

That’s, uh, I actually coach someone on on that question. It’s really anything that you can offer is going to help you’re going after the disabled space is the best way because you’re gonna get your foot in the door. It’s all about getting your foot in the door. When we want when we see a listing that we like, well message, say I love the space. And like I said, the viewing in person, you do the pitch, you don’t do the pitch before you meet otherwise, you’ll never get the space. And we don’t say Hey, I like your listing, can I Airbnb? It would answer that, I don’t know, right? So anyway, love the space would love to love to view it, then you’re there you meet and say, hey, you know, this will actually do really well for what I’m looking for. And here’s what we do. I can say what we do now, because we’ve got that. But once you have one space, you can point back to it and have success. So getting the first one, it just requires a little bit of grit and cool offer that a friend of mine came up with for him starting was huge offer, like I can pay you six months in advance rent right now. And I was like, oh, that’s clever. So having the ability to do a heck of an offer. Yeah. So like, you want to get your first space, make an offer, they can’t turn down and call it marketing. Because every space after that is going to be a lot easier because you can point to saying I’m successful. And I’m going to do it again. Versus in the beginning. I don’t know what I’m doing because I have this. It’s the bad pitch. So six months up front was one thing and see money talks in real estate. So if you can put more down up front, it’s fine. You just gotta believe and you’ll make it back. And then if you don’t have that money to put down, it’s really talking about character. It’s like, this is my job. I have stable income. I want to create a side hustle and get into property management. I’ve made a surefire plan. Here’s my steps. This is why this space works. I’d love to have it and then you just have a conversation. It’s just negotiation, you’ll get turned down four to five times. But the fifth one just look at five places. Four to five, I think as the fifth place so it’s not like KFC you didn’t thinking 1000 pitches at the time. Yeah, so it’s much better than that. Yeah. 

 

Erwin  

So as the 100 Proper 100 properties Under doors, how many clients do you have are some of them bigger, and they have a sizable portfolio or a lot of these, like, Mom and Pop landlords like one, three properties. 

 

Avery  

It’s mostly Mom and Pop. But then we started working, we started working with small to mid size property management companies. And at this point, we have organic referrals because we do a good job and are accountable. So what’s actually happened on our side is just kept showing up. Number one rule of entrepreneurship just kept showing up, and they’d start sending us spaces. Hey, this one just come up came online, do you want it? So we’ll get first kick at the can because we are reliable. They always pay. We always maintain it, and they don’t hear a peep. So we’re like their outsourced management company. It’s just easier to rent to us. 

 

Erwin  

Okay, that’s fascinating. So apartment management, wants you as a repeat tenant, scalable repeat tenant, and they still they still get paid their regular, 

 

Avery  

I get paid, they get paid, they can start cutting back on their service request, because we’re taking care of most of the just because we have to it’s like a nature of the base. Like we’ll work with them. And we’ll we’ll offload as much as we can to save money. But at the end of the day, if I’m looking at $100 Night reservation for two weeks coming up, and I’ve got a plumbing issue. No, that’s getting planted today. So well, yeah, they like us. Because exactly they they like us, because we run their property, they just forget it exists. So that’s why we keep getting more spaces. Oh, wow. Fascinating, right? It’s so simple. 

 

Erwin  

It’s so fascinating. And there’s another question I’ve missed is are you worried about or any of these areas? Do you have issues with legislation? Like you see my posts on Facebook, I highly recommend everyone like my Facebook and see me Duff doing watch he does golf balls. In in Ontario, we have a lot of issues around lashes, a lot of condos, and then national we’re seeing a lot of municipalities now, banning short term rentals. London was the was the latest case where I can recall of one is not allowed to rent out their property in less than 30 days. Are you seeing that in your market? Or do you have any concerns? Can you still operate in that environment

 

Avery  

That’s coming down the pipeline, there are certain neighbourhoods like what it really comes down to his only issues come from respecting neighbours, like that is where all the push comes from. So there’s certain properties we have in certain neighbourhoods that we’ve just flipped to do 30 Day minimums. And all all this regulation we see around the world, when I keep repeating to people that ask this only affects things under 30 days. And the reason why is because if you look at the Tenancy Act in your province, it states how many days sublet can exist in a sublet is anything after 30 or more days. So there was never any rules written or anything below it. And that’s why they’re all being written now. So if you have someone for 30 days, or plus, it’s already written into the provincial and federal code from decades ago, it’s not going to change very quickly. So that even might get bumped around. And coming years after they push all the everyone to 30 day minimums, then we might address that as well. But that’s our strategy. So we really focus on getting those longer term reservations. People that come to stick around 30 days or 45, when we have some properties in downtown commercial zones, and if they want to come in and say no Airbnbs over a commercial operator, this is a commercial property. And here’s our commercial lease. So this is what we do. We host people that the end of the day regulations are only impacting areas that are zoned for residential that are being flipped in the Airbnb is because the neighbours are annoyed. All it is. And we look for commercial areas, and we look for 30 Day minimums in neighbourhoods. That’s it. So we’re proactively adapting to that, just expecting it. We’ve been making a slow shift for the last couple of years. So whenever it comes, won’t affect us. But that’s the strategy. 

 

Erwin  

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you look for commercial areas, 

 

Avery  

Like we’ve got apartments that’s above a pizza shop. It’s on it’s on a main strip. And while the our apartments that building is zoned commercially, so we can operate it, one that we took it on was downtown, it was above a convenience store what was apartments. Again, the zoning allowed us to make it into a boutique hotel. Zoning matters. We don’t actually dive into like, setting all these things up on all these permits and whatnot, but we look for the right safety net. And if the student situation comes where we’re talking to them, we say well, we’re in the right spot. And we haven’t had problems yet but we have a we have contingencies for it that does come up Long, that’s been our growth. Now it’s really focusing on commercially zoned areas just to be able to the race. When I look at an investment now it’s like, okay, commercially zoned on Airbnb site, what we’re just did were opened up a hotel, they actually took on a 25 unit, abandoned hotel, and, again, partially zoned, we just made an Airbnb. And we’re gonna start doing more of these because they’re awesome, the margins are incredible. It just needs a really good interior decorator, and you’re done. I’m gonna apologise to everyone because I think modern listeners are gonna buy every single abandoned hotel in the next 30 days across the country. I’m going to show on Netflix about motel flipping. Now, I can see why if we did, our first one is motels, if you know the historical hotel in your mind, they’re never very appealing. So make it appealing. And you already have spaces. And there’s a market for it. And so they just don’t do well online and they don’t look appealing. So you fix those two things. And you had a bargain on your spaces. 

 

Erwin  

Fascinating. Clean it up in that hot tubs. You’re probably good to go. That’s it. Clean the hundreds. Yeah, I can’t imagine the reviews if you don’t have a clean hot tub. Oh. Bad thing in my mind. I get so every Can you to rank for me your preference for investment then. So unique will come will be at the very top, I’m guessing. And then build a commercial? Yeah. And then below that would be like a commodity regular residential. Yeah. So that can be I can be urban, that could be Suburban. 

 

Avery  

Exactly. If I was going to rank in that order. That’s I never thought of it that way. But that’s exactly how we’ve morphed over time. So to do things that are niche, again, finding space to make that happen, a little more challenging. That’s why we’ve jumped into now by personal plans. And we’ll build a tiny accommodation, because we’re doing our thing you can hear like we’re off away, expensive in the city easier, just so we’re going more into unique now because it’s stronger in the long run.

 

Erwin  

Got it every day. But I want to thank you because that’s a really helpful point. Because from from what I’m hearing from investors, often they look to Airbnb to convert whatever their rental is, what the current use of the rental is, for example, it can be a condo, it can be a single family home in the suburb in suburbia. And then I think it would go Airbnb, but you’re saying that’s, that’s a bit lower on your on your preference level for an optimised investment. 

 

Avery  

Exactly. We still one arm of our business, and we’ll keep growing that and that’s fine. But so here’s a here’s a really good example for this. This is a startup and wanting to share, it blew my mind one year ago, when I dove into it. And why we started becoming developers is an average city space, it takes something here’s a number that can sort of translate across almost majority of cities. For average space not topped here, if you’re just gonna say like, let’s go on the averages. Take something like 18 days to break even and remaining 12 To profit. Yeah. So the margins okay, but you got to sell every one of those nights. So if there’s turnover days that you don’t capitalise capture, you’re just losing profits. So there it is 18 breakeven 12 profit over the course of the year the summer is different the summer peak seasons like five days, breakeven candy with our cabins is three, three days, four days to breakeven rest profit. So it’s quantum to quantum shift. It’s almost like eight times better so we can take comfort if there’s vacancies we don’t need to lower our price we’ve established this is what this is worth. This is our price but slower in the winter and that’s fine we don’t need to sell and that’s what sort of happens in the commodity space and Airbnb is during offseason well it takes 18 days to break even so that’s not happening and like oh no no wins the race to the bottom. So this is why we’ve made the switch is just it’s a lot more consistent in the cash the margin goes from like 30% to 6570 crazy.

 

Erwin  

I have a feeling your winter months gonna be busy like just what I see here like like ski has slammed private membership ski clubs I think they’re all their initiatives are double Wow. Like they went from like no one no one was interested failing businesses to having like waiting lists now for private ski clubs. Right? Oh, what a pandemic will change. I don’t know what’s gonna happen going forward. I don’t know if people will change you know, I mean, it like for example, even though we’re we’re all this recession talk. For example. Amazon Prime just had their best Amazon Prime ever. Right? Which is like a week ago. Yeah, it is the best ever. Even though we’re approaching, we still have supply chain issues, we’re approaching recession or we were in a recession already. But just because I my guess is part of it is because they have so many new customers. Right. And I think people have had a taste of more outdoor experiences. And I think that might persist. It may Trump may come down a little bit, I still think a lot of it will persist. Right? 

 

Avery  

Yeah, there’s, there’s definitely some things that have become sticky. And one trend that we’ve noticed as people became more familiar with their province, their country, travelling internationally might not be the question. And even now that we can, we’re still finding new spots. And, you know, within three hours that we really want to do, we’re now talking about exploring Canada. And it’s, it was a thing like, where the pandemic, people had the shift of I need to go to Paris, well, you can just go to Collinwood, actually, and now you’ve been exposed to it, although you’ve always noticed that you’ve never actually been. That’s, that’s a trend that sort of has stuck around. And it’s been motivating us. 

 

Erwin  

And then we have barriers. Now, just our airports are too busy. People’s luggage is lost. I don’t really want to go too far. And then crossing a border, all issues around COVID Stuff like I personally don’t, and I fight with my mom with my kids. I definitely don’t want to be crossing a border, right at this moment. Because I don’t want to be you know, so you test positive when you’re trying to cross when you try to come back to Canada. Now you’re stuck with my kids. We’re all stuck here. Now. I can imagine what the expense is going to be. So I’m naturally worrywart. All right. Again, I’m so sorry to my listener, because I’m sure there’s a lot of questions that they want ask how much is 300 acres costs in Nova Scotia? 

 

Avery  

Oh, sure. Who Yeah, when I first was 250. And when I first got into this to say, let’s figure out real estate, I thought like, Okay, that’s a good chunk of change. I don’t have it, but I’ll find it. What have later learned is that it is such a bargain, especially for anybody in the US. So this was 750 grand. 

 

Erwin  

Excuse me, his exact square foot condo in Toronto. Sorry, we need to reiterate this out. How much land Did you buy for 750 K. 

 

Avery  

We we have a small town of land 250 acres. Small small Township is what we have. I guess whole background behind me this is just a smidgen of it. You can see this. We have a lake on this Canadian dollar. Yeah, and it’s got some cool zoning too, that allows basically anything except fish processing and tires. I don’t know. But we can do anything here right you’re good? No fish processing. We don’t have it. 

 

Erwin  

So no fish processing your entire processing. That’s that’s your invitation. Okay, that’s it. All right. 

 

Avery  

Yeah, no, but this is a cool investment. And later after the ACA realise just how, how good of a deal. Nova Scotia and Atlantic Canada property is it’s almost oceanfront, we looked at a piece of ocean and Brian does 40 acres per 60 zoning was weird. We left it’s still under percent. It’s my most popular speech. We part of the process looked at 258 islands that was connected by a small causeway so we could build a road that was 2 million island. It has like 14 kilometres of ocean frontage. It’s crazy. The everyday mind. 

 

Erwin  

Thanks for projections on what this twinner for the acre property is gonna generate, like seven. This is This is insane. Well, what are the property taxes on 250 acres? No, no. Who cares? Please cash probably counting all sorted out. 

 

Avery  

It’s so the easiest way to break it down is to say how much how much does a space generate? Use the word space because not a cabin. It’s not a dome suntan like whatever space that’s matters because we’ve had scope creep and we’ve dialled back our cost per capita. Any space in this atmosphere we generate 30,000 Every year, excuse me. 22 inch square foot. very grand. Yeah, low end 25. If we really nail it, we can get 45 but I think it’s gonna fall on 30. So for each combination we put up, we just run the math. So we want to turn that Since we’re a million dollar operation, and the goal is to get to 40 spaces for the next three years, however, we’ve totally deconstructed our, our scaling model. And that’s part of our secret sauce, which anyone wants to talk about in this call. But essentially, we’ve just driven down the cost to get to, I think you can hit a million dollar business in our first nine months, which would be awesome. I can only do that because you’ve done it before. But I want to do it again. And and under a year. 

 

Erwin  

You mentioned you didn’t have the money, how are you? Financing capitalising this?

 

Avery  

There’s really cool programmes that exist. We had, it was a mix of private investment, we brought in sort of a 350 private investment, the land cost 750. And to develop it out, we’re gonna do one and a half million. So the bank saw half a million. Yeah, as our project, build out, the bank side is okay, you need you need to have X amount percentage of one and a half million, and then they’ll fund the rest. So one method was we did a vendor take back seller financing to get part of that downpayment, finance the rest of the friends and family. And then the bank came in, in Canada, there’s a federal Canada backed loan, up to a million dollars the loan over 20 years really favourable interest, and we’ll start with Business Development Bank of Canada. No, that’s the only one that doesn’t do it. But any bank, however, anybody? We’ve got the most success at credit unions, I love credit unions, credit unions will take a chance on you. And whereas big banks, put your number in a computer, and it says sorry. Peter said no. Anyways, it was a mix of credit union know about federal programmes, and then better take back mine with private financing. It was painful process, but we figured it out. 

 

Erwin  

Oh, financing developments are painful processes. To listener like listener like this is a straight up shows culturas about real estate investing, these things aren’t easy. This sounds crazy. 

 

Avery  

We’re going to scale again, though, is vendor take backs. That’s been our biggest tack to scale our business, we’re using that to buy our properties that we have landlords that Airbnb is with. We’re using that to buy development properties. Make a deal? Hey, I’ll give you your asking price you contribute 100,000, this will pay it back over two years plus interest depends on the discussion. It depends. It always depends, right? 

 

Erwin  

And of course, to me, it means of course, you’re speaking directly to the to the owner, you’re not going through an agent to have a VTB discussion when we went through the age for this to be able to have a good agent offence.

 

Avery  

Oh, yeah. But it also came because we had went looked at for three properties. And the last one, we went to go make an offer on someone else took it on the night of my wedding. And I was like I’m done. I’m done searching to come back to the drawing board picked five places and said, What’s your ideal space? We ended up with this one. And by this point, we had been done all of our research, we know exactly what we needed. And we have been turned down multiple times. So when we came into this meeting, we just said we want it. We’ll give you the price. But we need your your seller to play ball with us for some seller financing. They can throw 100 grand our way, we’ll figure out the terms are in and just sheer confidence after failing is what got us through. Because the first people didn’t too complicated. But sheer confidence in a very good agent is how we got it done. 

 

Erwin  

Yeah, you won’t keep that person’s number for life. Most agents, in my experience have no idea what vendor financing means their learning in this market. works a lot better in a buyers market too. Yeah. Oh, and just just out of curiosity, and I’m sorry. I know. We’re way over time. So I’ll let you go soon. Curiosity you choose to cut down on roads to build. How long are these properties sitting on the market? Like for example, like this, this 250 acres that you you’re you’re developing? How long? How long was it available for? 

 

Avery  

That’s a good question. I don’t think it was too long. I think it was maybe different targets. I think it was like 150 days. So anyone could Yes. In some at some of them, like the person we looked at had been on for years on and off. Although there’s a huge there’s a huge boom for people buying houses and markets. Some houses are on for day, most per day. Yeah, that didn’t seem to affect large land parcels, small home sized land parcels maybe more affected, but medium and large, lots of opportunity. And then the cost per acre is way less too. So, you know, part of our follow up plan, if we failed was, we could cut a chunk out and sell it for some capital. So if you can finance a medium sized portion like anything that’s like maybe 10 acres and above, less competition on it. 

 

Erwin  

Every year, apologies. I didn’t ask any early journey questions. How did you fall into this business? Oh, that’s yeah. I for short term rentals, 

 

Avery  

my whole life, I’ve thought I was an entrepreneur. So I kept trying and trying and trying failed and about 10 Different things that had no connection or relevance, just being part of the story. And I was running a painting franchise, college pro student works, this kind of thing. And that taught me all the fundamentals of how to run a business. So then all those my failures started producing. And one day a friend named Keith, which a room on Airbnb, I tried it. I had two bedroom, not one bedroom paid for my whole rent. So I thought, well, this is great. 

 

Erwin  

So your house hacking. 

 

Avery  

Alright, so I live in a two bedroom I had one and I rented out the other room and one room paid for my rent. Okay, I’m living for free now. This is great. How do I do more? And then I got home. And when I look back later at why this really stuck for me and why I love promoting it to others is totally inhibits my core value of fun. I just I can’t get involved in anything that I can’t have a little mayhem. Okay, Austin and Airbnb allows that allows flexibility and time freedom. Investment. I love promoting it to others because you can get the full 40 Hour Workweek you can train it, you can put whatever you want. It’s whatever you want. It’s blank, blank canvas big or as small as you want to go to market. 

 

Erwin  

Hey, I’m thoroughly enjoying this. I’d use up your whole afternoon if I could. But I only asked you for an hour now. Any anything? Anything I’ve forgotten to ask anything else you want to talk about? But what actually no, I said I asked you, you’re going to explain where the name of the of the resort came from. I don’t know if that’s even the right term. tortures peak orders peak. 

 

Avery  

Well, there is a lake a very well known lake in Nova Scotia called porters lake. And this is right up against it. And that’s at the very end and it has a mountain on so borders peak with it just it gave us the right alliteration sounded good to say. It was multifunctional so we can grow into it quarters peak spa orders keep refining orders thanks snowboarding orders people. There’s so many effects everything. And we also we also get the natural SEO for when people type in orders Lake orders. Oh let’s partner is key. So we might get accidental visitors. They’re just trying to go to the lake. 

 

Erwin  

I frickin love it. It’s such a I studied business in school. So I’m a bit of a marketing business geek as well. You borrow from an established brand, which is Porter’s Lake to build it into your own business versus some people would do Avery’s resort. Did you know SEO value? Yeah, so when you’re typing, you go to Google and it’s almost already on Apple Maps. We’ve even done frickin love it. And then the URL is Porter’s peak.com. Yeah. Good for you. And then I mentioned the opp before we start recording I thought was I thought it was Porter’s Porter speaks. Speak Porter speak. Probably I probably actually help people remember the name Porter pushers peak. Obviously there’s no apostrophe. Yeah, just Porter Porter’s peak. Anything else or anything else you want to tell us about the development that I haven’t asked? Other than the Instagram is also Porter’s Porter’s peak. 

 

Avery  

Follow our Instagram, one of my co founders, my business partner, Victoria, she runs the Instagram and it is not only entertaining, there’s also educational and it’s also going to make you want to come here. So our Instagram is very lively. Please check it out. And this is something that we’re growing. We’re going to be taking this model across the country. And a dream of mine is still a company across Canada and this is this is our knee. It’s our bread and butter and you are interested to learn more or want to learn how to do it yourself. I’m happy to take your email and If you need to talk I was wondering if we’re not working together I will happily help you. Because you know, there’s no such thing as competition that space is part. I don’t want people competing for your time. Competing with me for your talk doesn’t exist. Oh, time lab. Oh, God. You’ll pick up all this barley appointment slots in your town, we I’d love to take this offline too. This is a fun chat. I want to learn more about what you do to r1 podcast. 

 

Erwin  

I’ll stop the recording that and we can keep going. I don’t want to bore the listener with what I do for listener one, one last time, use the Instagram Porter’s peak, all supporters peak.com. Avery, thank you so much for doing this. I knew you’re a big time, man. Is this ever fascinating. I love how we got into the weeds. You know, I was actually thinking like, how am I going to title this show? I think the title of the show is if you’re gonna listen to a podcast on Airbnb, you have to listen to this. So thank you so much for being a wonderful guest and being so open. Yeah. And you know, it’s hilarious how we met introduction. We were both at the same conference in our mutual our mutual friend met you there. You already knew me. Well, it’s Oh, yeah, yes. And you meet this every guy. Right? And if if you weren’t there, I wouldn’t have never gotten the introduction to you. So my point I’m trying to get to his folks is like, you need to get out there. Right? You can’t just sit back on your Facebook or Instagram and think you’re gonna meet people and make connections. Alright, so yeah, okay, point. Yeah, get out there. Shake the tree when you’re stuck when someone’s gonna take up all your time. So I get the value by 70 listeners getting all the value for Avery this amazing, thanks. Thanks again so much for doing this. Let’s go check out the recording. Oh, in any final words, anything else you need other final words, 

 

Avery  

Go out there and get your first base started and you will never regret it. 

 

Erwin  

Alright, thanks so much.

 

Erwin  

Before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already then sign up to my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As a real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow. But with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was five to 10 years ago when I started there. Forgive the cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more lumps you can absorb. And if you have none, or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like it did on a recent basement flood at my student rental in St. Catharines. Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more, but it’s true for free for my newsletter at www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Enter your name and email address on the right side. We’ll include in the newsletter when we announce our next free stock hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself but so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

Subscribe on Android

To Connect with Avery:

Web: https://www.365x.ca/

Web: https://www.porterspeak.com/

Instagram: @porterspeak

Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/porterspeak/

 

HELP US OUT!

Please help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review!
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with! Build connections with empire builders and trailblazers at our iWIN events.
 
CLICK HERE to check out what’s coming up next.
 
 

BEFORE YOU GO…

If you’re interested in being a successful real estate investor like those who have been featured on this podcast and our hundreds of successful clients please let us know.

It is our honour to give back and educate others on how we build cash flowing real estate portfolios using all the best practices shared on this podcast, from the lessons of our hundreds of clients and of course our own experience in owning investment real estate.

If you didn’t know already, we pride ourselves on being the best of the best real estate coaches, having the best property managers, contractors, handy people, cleaners, lawyers, accountants, everyone you need on your power team and we’re happy to share them with our clients to ensure your success. 

New investor or seasoned veteran investor, we can help anyone by providing our award winning coaching services and this isn’t all talk.

We have been awarded Realtor of the Year to Investors in 2015 by the Real Estate Investment Network, 2016 by the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine and again in 2017 because no one told the judges no one is supposed to win the award twice but on merit, our peers deemed us as the best.  In 2018, we again won the same award by the Real Estate Investment Network.

Hopefully being the most decorated team of Realtors in Ontario will make you consider us for your first or next real estate investment.  Even if you don’t invest in our areas, there’s a good chance I know who would be ideal for you. 

I’ve been around for a while, some Realtors are talented at servicing investors there are many with great ethics.  The intersection of the two, talent and ethics is limited to a handful in each city or town.

Only work with the best is what my father always taught me.  If you’re interested, drop us an email at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

I hope to meet you at one of our meetups soon.

Again that’s iwin@infinitywealth.ca

Sponsored by:

Infinity Wealth Investment Network – would you like to know how our investors returned 341.8% on positive cash flowing real estate over the last five years? On average, that was 68.4% per year.

Just imagine what winning in real estate could do for you.

If you would like to know how we did it, ask us how by calling 289-288-5019 or email us at iwin@infinitywealth.ca.

Don’t delay, the top markets we focus in are trending upward in price, so you can pay today’s price or tomorrow’s price.

Till next time, just do it because I believe in you.

Erwin

Hamilton, St. Catharines and Toronto Land Development, Real Estate Investor, and soon to be builder.

W: erwinszeto.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/erwin.szeto
IG: https://www.instagram.com/erwinszeto/